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64.12.116.16
In Reply to: RE: 6SN7/26/45 posted by limono on April 03, 2009 at 15:57:11
I do not know exactly what "Tamura amorphous core transformers" translates in the world of sound, but it sure does sound good and it sure does sound like something.
The idea sounds appealing to me, whatever it is, and I would look forward to hearing it.
To make the analogy of a 50k amp to an off shelf chinese amp as an A08 amp might be to the John Hogan 717a/45 amp: that I would say is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?
My bet before comparing is that I would prefer the Hogan amp, based on the overall musical/aesthetic qualities as I see it. I know that the vintage opts in the Hogan amp have a substance to the sound that does not seem to be in what else I have heard. Special and relatively unique qualities that I recognized right from the start have kept me happy for the past 6 years or so.
I understand that I really have no right to claim that because anyone can claim anything really.
But I would ask you to give the idea some merit only if based on the idea that there is some vintage stuff that is far superior to what is currently being produced.
And to also consider the idea that whatever sense it takes to hear what is good is not in the purview of "experts" or experienced people only. That an ordinary person can have better insight into the whole sceme of things than even what a majority of "experts" might claim.
Cause that is the way the ball really bounces.
Follow Ups:
Why ridiculous John? I did not hear 50k AN amp but I did Chinese and Hogan 26/300B. At least Chinese was optmimised for the job.And I do have "clone" of Yama 45 and 300b with O-netic and AN trans. They are OK but I did not hear genuine Yama amp so my experience is irrelvant as it might be totaly different cattle of fish. The influene of magnetics is tremendous.I respect your "addiction" to certain vintage iron ;)
Great choice on O'Netics, I had Bud wind me up some IT's couple years ago, for a 2 stage SE jobbie. outstanding magnetics fella Bud is. A little freaky in the tweek department & way over my head when talking with em, but who cares, his iron sounds excellent. Sure would like to hear that amp you have with the O'Netics OT's runnin....!!!!!!!!!!1
Joe
hey-Hey!!!,
I know where there is one of the 08's doing adequate duty as a paperweight. The music comming out of it sounded like it had been through a gem polisher; all the edges rounded off. If you wish to see for yourself I can probably arrange a listen.
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
OK , cool as I have to stop by anyway. I'll bring my crap to compare.
Regards, L
What Douglas is describing is what I might expect.
I see you are in Detroit. The Hogan amp that you heard, was it Dennis's 6sn7/26/300b? because i would say that is really a good amp? didn't like what you heard?
I've heard numerous AN set-ups at a couple of shows. To each his own.
Yes it was/is Dennis's 6SN7 (SRPP) pre driving 26/300B.Althoug I heard it in a few occasions it's hard to form a firm opinion.The reasons are:
Room is big, Dennis is multiamping and constantly changing setup and I did not hear last (supposedly the best incarnation).Charm of that amp must be in it's midrange tone but to appreciate it I'd have to take it home and listen fullrange. When I heard it for the first time EH 300B tubes were in poor condition ,we swaped them for KR300bXL and it sounded better (in HiFi sense but the amp still just didn't have a drive to move the speakers in this big room. Sound was not offensive but rather flat.Now I have a "bug" to press Dennis and borrow it (swap with my 45's) ;)
Nijohn, I hope you don't take it as any offense toward you nor Hogan amps.
I always read your (long;) posts with utmost interest because most of DIY people (me included)frequently loose the purpose of this hobby which is music (not sound) appreciation. I'm in the point of my life where I have bits and pieces of equipment/parts I could never dream I'd ever have BUT the music is mostly gone.I hope to get it back someday ;)
Regards, L
I use to own that amp, and i have two others here. And I have to say that these 300b are great matches for Altec equipment which i think Dennis had a while back.
So i cannot say that you would not be hearing a very good example of a Hogan amp. (I don't take any offense whatsoever in informed discussion which you are presenting and I know for sure that we all prefer and listen differently).
A EH tubes work okay but some 300b brands are about 3x better, and I
think a vtv 6sn7 is better than the srpp although the srpp is considered more high-end and more modern? I think the best is the ancient fi primer. It is the most mystical and throws the most into the equation. (I even mistook some of its characteristics to the opts.)The only problem according to John was that he could not build a seperate fi primer 6sn7 because of dangerous high voltages which get dissipated in an amp with the other circuits.
I guess the main charm is in the midrange and that I guess is what the strength of the best vintage including WE can be. Also check the clarity,
the kind of soundstage it has, the sense of depth it can have (more so with the right 300b tubes, and the other pre's), the substance of the sound, and it sounding just right in a way. The 26 tube really conveys horns and other instruments real well too.
I'm sure too that there are amps out there that may dazzle the listener much more because some of these opts are really fast and sharp.
Limino, don't mind me either.
It is difficult to maintain focus, to make reasonable discernments, to really assess all of the variables, and to not get off track in this whole audio thing. To some extent, the whole audio field could be a bit off track from what was discovered in the past.
I am very suspicious now when designers make 'upgrades' because i think in part that it involves some narrowing of vision instead of a larger perspective.
Kind of like life, isn't it?
Well, when I first heard that amp the altecs were gone replaced by not that great Stromberg Carlson 12" fulrangers. Than there were Big Patrician 800 and they simply needed little more power and were just waking up from years of not using (Denis was forced to sell them rather quickly). Today we were listening for most of afternoon.Hogans were driving Edgarhorn midrange with JBL 2441 driver (radian dia's)It was smooth sounding and there was something else but Denis is using inexpensive DXQ(O?) crossover with rather steep slopes (18db?)Push Pull on Imperial Bass-midbass up to 700Hz than 700hz-7K Hogan 300B and 7k-up adcom SS with variety of tweeters. Hard to judge an amp in such a setup.
I have a 6sn7/26/300b on my desktop with the computer but i haven't had anything going on here for the past couple of months and i have to work with the sound.But i just set up one in the living room and pairing it with mixed speakers because i only have one of each, left over from consolidating my speakers in an adjacent room. I have a large corner Altec on one side and a Klipsch La Scala on the other side. I can hear the fact that the speakers are not the same but it is okay right now.
Set it up a couple of days ago and been leaving a Donald Byrd cd in the dvd player. My 4 year old daughter is the first to wake up this morning and she comes down and hangs out with me on the couch. She says: "I want to watch tv", but i say " let's listen to the music a little more". I am enjoying some coffee as I watch the beginning of a nice day peeking in from the bay windows.
The music sounds so good that the only complaint perhaps is that I am too close to the speakers. Should i try a 45? is the only counter thought i have, a perennial question when using a 300b amp. But it really sounds good. The sound is so 'fat' that i feel i could hang a coat on it. Donald Byrd is coming out on the Klipsch on the right, and Pepper Adams is coming out on the left through the Altec. I'm thinking about the saying of Klipsch that we live in or for the midrange? as I listen to Byrd. I know what he is talking about because the Klipsch is really doing a good job presenting Byrd. I'm going through what happened to me yesterday, meeting a new woman and her children, in the beginning of this spring season. On the couch with my daughter and the music, a little reprieve, a little moment of 'life is beautiful' before it's over and I have to get going with chores and the day.
Edits: 04/05/09 04/05/09
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