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In Reply to: RE: Speaking of having the same speakers as an objectivist... posted by andy_c on May 28, 2008 at 18:25:40
I can't tell if you're dumping on Siegfried Linkwitz or not, but that won't stop me from acting like I know something.I first ran across his work in the late '60's or early '70's when he published a series in either HFNRR or another Brit design mag whose name escapes me. The design was a very advanced (for the time) sub-satellite system built with KEF drivers and active crossovers (probably using 741 op amps, but that's all they had back then). As I said, his work at the time was at or beyond SOTA.
Fast-forward to now. Linkwitz has done a lot of pioneering work on crossovers, and publishes a series of DIY projects that have been well-received by the few that have built them. The Orion again could be considered SOTA, with a baffle-less (baffles me, though) design, serious drive units, tailored active crossover, blah blah blah. You can buy all the parts at Madisound for under $2K and build a pair yourself if you're up to it. I'd seriously consider that myself (I tri-amp sometimes, what the French call a "fromage a trois"), but I don't have a really good amp at that power level, I don't like IC crossovers, and I'm so indolent that I was actually fired as a quality tester at the La-Z-Boy Recliner Company.
On to the notorious Peter Aczel, who I picture as Harvey Korman in "Blazing Saddles". years ago he got caught with his hand in someplace it didn't belong, promoting as "best ever" a speaker that he had a financial interest in (the "Foreplay" or somesuch - sounds like Aczel could be a descendant of Onan the Barbarian). Never heard the speakers, but heard that they were pedestrian at best. Never read anything by the guy or bought his moribund audio rag since then. AFAIC, he's ceased to exist.
My point in all this: none, except that the Orion has the potential to be an excellent speaker for those whose tastes run that way.
Edits: 05/29/08Follow Ups:
"On to the notorious Peter Aczel, who I picture as Harvey Korman in "Blazing Saddles". years ago he got caught with his hand in someplace it didn't belong, promoting as "best ever" a speaker that he had a financial interest in (the "Foreplay" or somesuch - sounds like Aczel could be a descendant of Onan the Barbarian). Never heard the speakers, but heard that they were pedestrian at best. Never read anything by the guy or bought his moribund audio rag since then. AFAIC, he's ceased to exist. "
That's interesting. A little bit back, a pair of Aczel's Fourier 1s came available for sale. At the time having some casual interest in very steep slope crossovers, I looked into them out of the prospects of having something new and unusual to play with, though I didn't buy them in the end. While looking up information on the Fouriers, I came across similar comments to yours, time and time again, most often dragged out to assassinate his character whenever some mention was made of something he had said that was disagreeable to audiophile sensibilities. So, I did some more looking into it and didn't find one person who provided evidence to back it up.
Far as I could tell, this may be one of those "forum facts," an opinion or story that has come to become a "truth" on forums through constant repetition and the desire of others to believe it. (Sociology studies show that people will accept something as majority opinion or truth if even one person says it forcefully, loudly and often despite contrary, but less often stated, evidence to the validity of the aforementioned comments.)
However, I did stumble across this post that unlike the others seems to have come from someone who actually read the articles and related issues of TAC and took the time to provide quotes as evidence. Very interesting, but unconfirmable to me until I can verify or disprove it against another source that isn't just relying on here-say. Are your comments based on actual observation and reading of the relevant text from the time?
If so, it certainly wouldn't be the only instance of a dishonest reviewer/rag editor and rather just makes him one of the crowd. People scream about this unethical behavior (if true), yet I know of not one, not a single audiophile magazine or e-zine, that assigns to the Society of Professional Journalists: Code of Ethics that most other "review" based magazines and journals in other fields uphold. Kind of hard to single out Aczel for dismissal on such grounds when other reviewers enjoy near-permanent "loans" of review gear, below industry accommodation pricing, even merely free watches and lunches, and so on.
That rant aside, I am curious, is there an actual foundation to these claims?
"I can't tell if you're dumping on Siegfried Linkwitz or not, but that won't stop me from acting like I know something."
Absolutely not! He's obviously a very talented guy. Anybody who designs test equipment for HP has to have their act together. That wasn't my intention at all. I first heard of him when I read his original crossover article in the AES journal back in the '70s.
I was just giving kerr a hard time. The subjectivist folks here (including kerr) often dump on Aczel, who owns a pair of Linkwitz Orions and raves about them. Kerr heard the Orions and considered buying them. Upon reading his comment about "objectivist speakers", I couldn't resist razzing him a bit about wanting the same speakers that Aczel owns. Kerr and I have exchanged CDs via snail mail, though we're on opposite sides of the subjectivist/objectivist divide.
"On to the notorious Peter Aczel, who I picture as Harvey Korman in "Blazing Saddles". years ago he got caught with his hand in someplace it didn't belong, promoting as "best ever" a speaker that he had a financial interest in (the "Foreplay" or somesuch - sounds like Aczel could be a descendant of Onan the Barbarian). Never heard the speakers, but heard that they were pedestrian at best. Never read anything by the guy or bought his moribund audio rag since then. AFAIC, he's ceased to exist."
Onan the Barbarian - I love it! The Fourier Speakers debacle has been discussed here also, so I'm familiar with that. Aczel is definitely way out there at the extreme of objectivism. But I find this a hilarious counterpoint to the typical high end audio rags - and even worse, the "e-zines". One article of his that I think is extremely funny is The 91st Audio Engineering Society Convention; or, The Invasion of the Credibility Snatchers . Clark is mentioned in that article.
" My point in all this: none, except that the Orion has the potential to be an excellent speaker for those whose tastes run that way. "
Yes, I've heard they are outstanding. I'm doing a high-power DIY power amp design, and building eight of them as required for the Orions is not in the cards.
> Kerr and I have exchanged CDs via snail mail, though we're on opposite sides of the subjectivist/objectivist divide. <
Didja hate the CD's I sent you so much that you gotta give me shit about the Orions? :)
"Didja hate the CD's I sent you so much that you gotta give me shit about the Orions? :)"
Not at all! I've liked Butterfield's music for years. It was just that the "same speakers as an objectivist" comment was some low-hanging fruit. I couldn't resist :-).
> It was just that the "same speakers as an objectivist" comment was some low-hanging fruit. I couldn't resist :-). <
And here I am stuck with lousy ad hominem attacks! :)
I hope you didn't think I was serious?
No, not at all! I meant that you have some actual objective proof to slam me with(my post on the Orions) and all I could think of was ad hominems to throw back. "Nanny nanny boo boo" comes to mind... or "I know you are, but what am I"? LOL
BTW, I found a disc of really old Butterfield (pre-BBB) playing with a trio of Chicago blues vets at some club. Disc is titled "An Offer You Can't Refuse". Sonics are pretty terrible (mid-level bootleg quality)but the music is interesting. Email if you're interested in a copy.
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