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In Reply to: RE: BLACK News from Black Lion - the Micro Clock won't do S/PDIF... posted by gjwAudio on November 30, 2008 at 22:08:32
thanks grant. the benchmark is still too expensive but I bet it does a great job for you.
there's got to be a similar product to the black lion that would work I think. for those that might know what does guitar center sell (they have a 2 week bring it back no questions asked policy) that could work?
Follow Ups:
grant: what do you think of this?
Hi Theo
I like it... (the Syncgen Box). Given the "Project Series" legend on the front panel, and the v-e-r-y reasonable cost, I wouldn't think it's the gear Alan Parsons reaches for... but it might be an improvement on Juli@'s internal system.
The key point they make is "Two "Zero Bit Digital Black" S/PDIF Outputs On Coaxial RCA Connectors" ... this is what I hoped the Black Lion could do.
The RCA connectors are not ideal, but once you confirm it's suitability in your system , you may consider changing them out for BNCs (or rewire one of the existing BNCs if it's possible).
Sounds like it's time for Rick to say "TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM" again... be sure whoever you order from has the right return policy. I'm very curious to know if it's an improvement in what you hear - no doubt you'll do a thorough comparison.
OK... Go Get 'EM !!
Cheers,
Grant
That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
I took a look at it.
Where the the BLACK LION was cheap and cheerful (although it was BLACK) this thing looks simply CHEAP, not that that would bother me. One just wonders.
It seems to me for the purposes of home studio use, where as much as we would like it to otherwise, extraordinary sound quality is not the goal. DECENT quality is sufficient for someone wanting to show what they can do.
SO, the point of a clock, in this price range, I fear is just to synchronize all of this digital stuff Norman has laying about his home studio and there is no question this box will do THAT job and make his humble efforts sound better.
The question, though soon to be answered, remains: will this thing improve upon the intrinsic sound of JULI@? I suspect this device uses crystal oscillators, also. I am sure there is always a best of anything and maybe someone makes a REALLY good crystal oscillator, but somehow, I do not think that is going to make the difference we are wanting. I cannot conceptually see how this device could make a substantial difference for the better. I will rejoice in being proved wrong; don't get me wrong. It just seems unlikely to me.
I fear the only way to improve the "clocking" of JULI@ is the heroic and noble way; replace the crystals with fancy clocks. I am not anxious to do this since at the frequencies of the two clocks on JULI@ you are stuck buying expensive ones. I had asked Jim Hagerman if his kit clocks could be made available (I cannot remember if it was both or just one he does not offer) but he said no. I had asked the BURSON folks who offer a reasonably priced clock, and again they did not offer their devices in one or both of the needed frequencies.
I look forward to hearing what Theo hears.
On another front I got my BIG battery yesterday and in time will set up the picoPC power supply as recommended by Bernd and see what happens with this. If it doesn't make a differrnce I will have a first class filament supply!!!
Bye,
Rick McInnis
I'm kind of where you are on this. the only thing that attracks me to it is that guitar center offers a 2 week trial-return policy. I don't know though based on your comments I'm more negative now.
Theo,
I was just being my negative self.
If they give you an ABSOLUTE assurance that you can being it back, why not?
I think one would have to enter this audition thinking it WON'T improve. I fear the possibility that we WANT this to work, so we are inclined to think it is working.
Like my battery power supply experiment, I fear I want it to be better in the same way and wonder if I can be a reliable judge. Unless, it is dramatic I will be hesitant to recommend it. Anything less will be suspect as an artifact of bogus discovery.
It would be useful if one could get a glimpse of what is inside. My suspicion is there is nothing special in there at all. But, if the thing is made in huge quantities in China and was well designed it could be much better than its price would lead one to assume.
Give it a try, Theo. Give it every chance. Install it and let cMP play something continuously, let it truly settle down. After about a week of this I would think it would be at its best.
Bye,
Rick McInnis
wobbly cynical fabulist)
it sounds like nothing to lose to try (if I buy from gc). but have you heard of these guys? what is the 'project series'?
Hi Theo
I "know these guys" from waaaaay back. (see http://www.yorkville.com/default.asp? ...AND... http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?id=134&cat=9&type=86 ) When I was a wee lad flailing away in garage bands, we dreamed of getting Traynor amplifiers.
As you can see on the Yorkville site, they've been around since 1963, and now offer the whole range of pro & semi-pro gear. Their central target audience is the middle market - not true high-enders - as reflected in the pricing (now please... no flaming from all you satisfied Yorkville users - I mean no disrespect - and yes, the Traynor K4 is the BEST keyboard amp any live performer could wish for !)
So the ART line is nothing to sneer at... and Project Series is Marketing's way of identifying with all the smaller scale "Project Studios" they cater to.
Hope this was helpful.
Cheers,
Grant
That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
Hi. I just ordered one in the Netherlands for 78 euro to try.
I will try it at my juli@ (96khz)
Thats the max input for my Stello 220 DAC
Want to let you know that i recieved my Art syncgen today.
After some first listening there's no doubt about this update; it is.
The sound with external sync on juli@ is cleaner. The way i enjoy it that complex classic music is more relaxed to follow.
could you characterize how much better? a lot or just a little?
A litte theob, but it depends how you look at it. As i said the sound is cleaner. Cleaner sound gives more separation between instruments, more 3d, more easy to listen longer time. Compare the effect with a lower noisefloor. The more complex the music, the better i notice the effect. (Is easy to switch en compare with juliapan.exe control panel)
For a high-end installation a step upwards is very hard to get as we all know. In that case i would say its a relative BIG difference for a small price :-)
thank you very much. were you listening to 192,176,96 or 48? did you use the rca connection or a bnc connection from the art to juli?
I use 96khz upsampling in cplay. Any higher doesn't work with my equipment?
I had a Stello 220mkii dac and now since a few days playing with a Xindac DAC-8. De Xindac is very very good. As i see it now even a little better then the Stello.
I soldered the clock cables direct on the juli@ print.
thanks
I may order one tonight from guitar center here in the us (they have return policy). But let us know how it sounds.
Since they don't stock it and have to order they say they won't give a 2 week bring back trial period. So I am waiting until somebody else tries.
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