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In Reply to: RE: Questions posted by terry j on June 23, 2008 at 05:01:54
I just rebuilt my cMP over the weekend using latest hardware specifications. Highly recommended!
Ryelands' advice is good. Definitely go with CD ripping on another computer and just copy CDs (.cue & .wav / .flac) to your cMP (you get 4GB USB sticks these days). You benefit as your cMP has no networking functionality (giving better sound quality) and you don't have to mess with EAC. This is what I do with my reference setup.
It's a first not being able to use 250GB+ drives! I have a HTPC using cMP setup which has 1TB (2x512GB Seagate SATA HDDs). This is very unusual - you may a have a mobo fault.
Your other questions:
- It's safe to do the registry changes - minlogon stuff (posted under additional fine tuning) is high risk
- Yes with cPlay you don't need foobar
- Hoping to get a single guide covering all the new material + cPlay: cMP2
Follow Ups:
cheers cics
OK, let me see if I have got the scenario straight (murphys law and all that)....I just finished building the cMP two days ago, after buying all the parts for a complete new build...and now find out that there is a hardware upgrade that if I hadn't been so keen and impatient to build it in the first place I would have been able to incorporate into the build??? Yep, sounds like my kind luck!!
And to boot, you linked to yet another thread I have to read and try and understand...arrggghhhh!! I was blissfully unaware that one existed.
Maybe a mobo fault eh?, it is brand new out of the box, praps if I cross my fingers it will be faulty and can replace it..with the new one in the upgrade heh heh.
Will do the registry changes soonish, and then give the minilogin a go after that. Do we just clip off all the loose wires? or do they need to be cleaned up some other way.
Will get the memory stick and transfer from another computer, tho I have successfully copied a few cds to date, I find the cmp crashes regulary when I'm burning cds, I hope it's only during that process. I'll leave it on all day today (doing nothing) and see if it also crashes then. (dunno if crash is the right word, everything freezes up with what looks like attempted script, but comes out looking what a sci fi movie may have as an alien script. I have to turn it off and restart to get it going again)
OK, now to the important bit, feedback on how it sounds.
As I mentioned previously, I am a 'the important stuff in stereo happens at the speaker end' kind of guy. (you all will laugh at me here, and fair enough I spose) but I only ever used the cheapest dvd player ($119 IIRC!!) from woolworths in my system, initially just to get me going, but always kept it due to there being no great improvements from auditioning cdp's up to around $3000 in my system. I have also once checked out getting into vinyl and so had a cheapish vinyl rig in to audition, around $5 000 all up. Again no real improvement, just 'different' if you get my drift. The improvements (read difference) was not great enough to justify the asking price for entry, so simply stuck with my Digitrex 2000 ha ha.I mean I'm happy to pay for a quality upgrade, but for a couple thousand bucks it has to be OBVIOUS man, and a definite improvement, not just 'different'.
That was why it was risky and a gamble for me to give this a go, no way to audition first.
Well blow me down and colour me pink, I am very glad indeed that I took the gamble. Admittedly I have only heard a few tracks this morning, but already it's completely obvious about quite a few things. It is much easier to listen to for a start, less fatiguing and more relaxed. the imaging is a lot more precise, and the thing that I love about my systems presentation (ambience and 'surround sound') has improved dramatically from an already exceedingly high base! Excellent stuff.
But the thing that has completely blown me away? There is one particular track I have been playing a lot of this last week (above the clouds by Mike Oldfield) and towards the end of the track comes in this lowish guitar riff superimposed on the bass guitar, the track dies away to just the drums, then everything comes back for the climax. Strangely enough, the day I was building the cMP I went over to a guys house and listened to his system, he was running the top of the line Moon cdp into a pass labs pre and amp combo into a pair of duntechs, and the same description of the track applied.
I listened to it this morning off the cMP.....and the lowish guitar riff does NOT disappear when the drums come in, it is still there gently on top of the drums and as clear as a bell!!! I was shaking my head in astonishment.
And the funny thing? Yep, I'm still using the temporary analog out from the soundcard!
thanks cics, you have yet another fan!
New hardware specifications allows for SRC@145db SNR to be used. There's also lower power consumption. What you have is already exceptionally good. This upgrade delivers better performance - near perfect harmonics. The level of performance is a whole new experience for me - I've never heard such purity in any system (CD, SACD or turntable) at any price point.
Regarding loose wires: do NOT clip! Rather look to unplug at the connectors - computers are modular in design and rarely has components hardwired.
thanks cics
have bitten the bullet and ordered the upgrade stuff grrr, one day too early I was.
A few questions still if I may. Have had a few days with it, and the penny has yet to drop.
Somehow my cplay is stuck on 'repeating', and have yet to find what button i have pushed that I should not have.
Also the remote control using the mouse does not work, how do I turn it on?
Out of curiosity, if it's a good idea to burn your discs on a seperate computer and transfer them across, then theoretically we don't need the cd drive in the unit at all? If so, why is it there?
That kinda gets me to my biggest headache at the moment. I'm currently running at about 50% that cplay finds an error in the cuesheet generated by eac, and won't run. I've managed in a few of them to get in and successfully edit the cue sheet in notepad, but boy it's frustrating stuff and I'm not always successful.
The problems with the cue sheet may be the cause of the next, in most cases the blue line indicating which track is playing in cplay is on the wrong track..not a major problem as all the tracks still play but irritating. That may go away when I sort the cue file dilemna.
I've been searching cue sheet errors on the net, no obvious reason that I can find.
All that means that it is particularly slow in getting any amount of music into the cmp!!
Somehow my cplay is stuck on 'repeating', and have yet to find what button i have pushed that I should not have.
Also the remote control using the mouse does not work, how do I turn it on?
Out of curiosity, if it's a good idea to burn your discs on a seperate computer and transfer them across, then theoretically we don't need the cd drive in the unit at all? If so, why is it there?
...cplay finds an error in the cuesheet generated by eac...
first off apologies to you cics for not working out the stuck 'on repeat' bit, it should have been obvious.
I found remote exe thanks, but I have to click on it each time after exiting cplay for it to work, is that normal? And once the remote has been started, I no longer have 'right click' available so to actually turn off cplay from the bottom toolbar (when you right click and choose 'close) so to 'turn off' cplay I actually have to turn off the computer....again obviously something very stupid I'm doing (I recall the option to go to XP in the cMP options, but I go and click cPLAY to get going, is that where the error is?)
Am continually pleased at new things heard and improvements across the board. A friend came over and heard it y/day, think he may be here soon asking questions heh heh, he doesn't want the fully stripped back version dedicated to two channel, wants the full HT application but still with quality sound, assume the HT bit in the manuals will suffice.
On that score, is it possible at all with this setup to pop in a cd/dvd and just press play? ie without the need to rip and store. Guess it would be a bit hard to fit a movie on the ram.
OK, whilst it's wonderful I'm hitting up against a few problems that need sorting, I can't find the exact answers in the manual (tho no doubt there), so on with some more dumbarse questions eh?
Whilst my main computer is being repaired, I've had the cMP on the desk and running long analog leads to the deqx for convenience sake and to be able to begin ripping (when the main computer is back I can apply the remaINDER of the optimizations in the manual and rip on that and transfer via USB stick) however when my friend was here we decided to movemit over into the rack and use digital out rather than analog out, just to see how it sounded. Anyway I cannot get digital out, I was using the digital lead that comes in the bundle with the din (?) plug on the end. The pulldown in cplay that refers to the available inputs only lists input 1&2 and 3&4, which from the juli@ book is analog IN and out??? go figure. So I'm not sure what I've done wrong to not be able to access digital out. I did plug the coax lead into one of the outputs 3&4 (the bottom two) which did give a signal of sorts, but very distorted and obviously not the right place to put it!
There is an awful lot of noise (computer) in the signal. Like when a laptop with ac power in is in the system. I have byet to remove extraneous wires in the box yet, but even so I would not have thought it was normal or acceptable. When I replace the mobo and cpu's etc according to your last release I can remove the wires. But does having the noise sound like a normal situation to you? The PS I have is the coolermaster RS 500 if that is needed data, plus of course the granite PS.
When we use the zalman case, IIRC the only thing we enabled was the touchscreen. That means the USB ports on the front of the case (which provide very easy access) are non-functional, which means when we load the music files ripped from another computer (recommended) we have to fiddle around the back of the unit, a bit of a problem in a lot of racks I'd guess. Is there a way to 'turn on' the front usb ports? If the software changes preclude that, then maybe there are usb links available that can piggy out of the back port and loop into the front panel ports? How do all you guys overcome this 'user' issue?
Is there an option available so when I load a file into cPLAY it won't start playing till I press the remote button? Yes I know it takes 15 sec to load, but it's good to get it ready and settl back into the seat and press play when I like...gotta be able to get the beer in my hand first!! ha ha.
Thanks for that and your patience in answering every silly question I come up with.
General query (ie computer idiot alert) with the new mobo annd h/ware upgrades, as I vaguely understand it it enables us to sample at much higher rates...which from the diagrams in the intro to the AOBC gives us a more analog waveform. But if the dacs we use can only accept 24/96 is there an advantage?? or am I not even at the right station let alone on the right track. I mean does it do all the processing at 192 and then converts back down to 96 which the deqx will accept. If it 'goes back down' to 96, was there an advantage in going up in the first place? Maybe there is a link to a thread that explains it, saves you having to do it and I can learn that way.
EDIT to my last post, luckily no-one has responded yet so I can get this in.If one of the reasons of the SQ of the cMP is that the replay comes from a very quiet and stripped down computer, would not that attribute apply equally to the burning process? Not that I would necessarily hear it, but theoretically at least the SQ burned with the cMP should be better than our everyday computer with all it's noise? Would not the transfer in the non-optimum environment put jitter into the saved file?
If that is true, and the only 'downside' of using the cMP to burn the disc is the 'need' to connect to make the song list data gathering easier.
Well ok, then we can burn the disc on the cMP and only transfer the cue file can't we?
thanks.
EDIT OF EDITleft it a few hours just on (is that ok?) and went to play something just now,,all crackly and distorted. I really feel that computers (even stripped down ones) and I just don't get along. Or is it a microsoft thing?
anyway, not sure it's worth the grief. which is a shame given what I've heard. unless all the changes need to be made, but I got the idea that they could be done in stages so that does'nt make too much sense.
should fell better in the morning for a renewed attack, but only a few days in and already a bloody computer is mucking up. you'd think they'd be sorted by now wouldn't you? (computers I mean)
...is it possible at all with this setup to pop in a cd/dvd and just press play? ie without the need to rip and store. Guess it would be a bit hard to fit a movie on the ram
The pulldown in cplay that refers to the available inputs only lists input 1&2 and 3&4, which from the juli@ book is analog IN and out???
But does having the noise sound like a normal situation to you?
That means the USB ports on the front of the case (which provide very easy access) are non-functional
Is there an option available so when I load a file into cPLAY it won't start playing till I press the remote button?
...with the new mobo annd h/ware upgrades, as I vaguely understand it it enables us to sample at much higher rates... But if the dacs we use can only accept 24/96 is there an advantage??
If one of the reasons of the SQ of the cMP is that the replay comes from a very quiet and stripped down computer, would not that attribute apply equally to the burning process?...Would not the transfer in the non-optimum environment put jitter into the saved file?
left it a few hours just on (is that ok?) and went to play something just now,,all crackly and distorted. I really feel that computers (even stripped down ones) and I just don't get along. Or is it a microsoft thing?
Well I'm sure you would like some good news eh? I finally got the digital out working (thank you, thank you, you're too kind). Simple really I spose, made sure the pull down in cPLAY showed outputs 3&4, and then made sure in control panel-audio sounds and devices that output 3&4 was showing in the juli@ soundcard thingymajig.
And yes, some nice improvements.
The noise has attenuated very much, except of course when the file loads. I originally had it sitting on top of the bass amp (quick and dirty setup), and even with no electrical connection between the deqx and the cMP there was a constant thud thud from the bass speakers, obvioulsy some Rf interference. For now I have thrown the cMP on the floor and that has fixed it temporarily. When I make a music rack I'll have to keep it seperate from all amps I guess.
Decided to bite the bullet and try doing the rest of the optimizations myself, if I muck it up the computer guy can fix it when we replace the h/w.
On that question, still a tad confused.
You answered
""""New hw allows for 145db SNR upsampling - default offers SRC @ 121db SNR which is excellent but @145db, this is state-of-the-art. Unfortunately, using it requires loads of processing power, hence new hw which provides ample CPU ability without any penalties by way of more power consumption and interference. In your case (and mine), you can now use SRC @ 145db SNR for 24/96 output. Trying same on lessor hw will result in distorted playback. This hw also caters for 24/192k. There's no down conversion.""""
So I take it that I was totally wrong (confused by recalling the graphs in the paper I guess) about why we upgrade the hw. We in fact do it to get a better sound to noise ratio, and not because we upsample to 192k?? In fact we don't use that setting at all, just stick with 96 which is what the deqx can see..is that correct?
I don't suppose there are too many dacs capable of 192 input. I'm probaly still pretty confused about that, is their a discussion here that explains it all?
Anyway, thought you'd like some good news from me rather than problems! Thanks.
Upsampling is a tradeoff between accuracy and processing power. Greater accuracy (as in 145db SNR) demands more processing power. By accuracy, I mean correctness of signal amplitude calculation. In the graphs, plotting 145 and 121 will show differences in signal amplitudes (which probably won't be visible graphically and instead, you'd have to look at individual sample values).
So for best 24/96 output, use 145db upsampler. Likewise, at 24/192 you can choose the accuracy you prefer. Using 145db demands better hw.
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