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In Reply to: RE: But poseurs like yourself tend to assume that speed equals glibness and posted by jdaniel@jps.net on March 18, 2016 at 09:25:17
The Monteux - which I regard as the ne plus ultra of the B1 - is quick.
As for your petty little name calling - I'm pretty much consumed with ideas about music. All products of my own brain. YOU, on the other hand, seem to be incapable of any insights into music, or any original thinking at all. Nor have you engaged in any research that might inspire any insights.
Instead, you seem most comfortable in your role as a pestilent internet troll.
Troll on.
Severius! Supremus Invictus
Follow Ups:
Most Wanted on the FBI list, take an overall slower pace than...well...anyone? Hmm?
I swear, this is like talking to my kids sometimes!
Otherwise, the threads will be. . . pruned.
That would make me question your ability to be 'moderate' here.
?
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
That's what a Boston critic wrote about Beethoven's 9th in 1899. And consider some of the things Beethoven himself said about his critics and others he didn't deem worthy (to a critic of Wellington's Victory: "What I shit is better than anything you could think up").
But you're probably right, it's time to move on. I for one am patiently waiting for Newey's thread on great and compelling performances of Wellington's Victory.
Wellington's Victory - I've loved this work since childhood, when I first became acquainted with it though Morton Gould's RCA recording. (It had Ferde Grofe's "Grand Canyon Suite" on the other side!) I then moved on to Dorati, Karajan, and Rafael Fruhbeck de Burgos (on the Collins label). I have not heard the Maazel, Ormandy or Kunzel recordings. As other commentators have noted, the fugal episode in this work anticipates the kind of writing he did in his middle-to-late-period works, and it's certainly a better work than than many puffed-up writers have given it credit for.
All the recordings I listed use tracks of actual musket fire and canons, but Beethoven actually wrote these parts for ratchets (one for the English and one for the French). I actually participated in a performance of Wellington's Victory, and, at least as far as the ratchets were concerned, this was a HIP performance in that we didn't use soundtracks of artillery fire. Beethoven wrote for ratchets, and we used ratchets. (I played the French - losing - ratchet.)
And so, to the recordings: I prefer Dorati, mainly because of the engineering. I also found that the sound improved on the CD reissue. (The artillery seemed to be too much for the vinyl grooves!) The Karajan is also good, but he's too fast in places (surprisingly, faster than Dorati!), the speed bringing with it a corresponding decrease in power. It's been too long since I heard the Morton Gould recording (I was a kid - literally), and the Fruhbeck de Burgos is OK (I still have it), but perhaps not as clean and disciplined as Dorati and Karajan.
You asked for "great and compelling", and that's exactly what Beethoven gives us (realized by Dorati and Karajan and their respective orchestras) in this magnificent work!
I have the Gould/RCA Lp. In fact, I have several of the Gould/RCA classical hit compilations, which are very well done imo. But for me, Wellington's Victory anticipates his great late period without being entirely successful itself.
v
Severius! Supremus Invictus
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