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In Reply to: RE: The 24/96 FLAC download 1st movement cadenza is at 445, so is the SACD's CD layer posted by John Marks on September 11, 2015 at 08:41:25
Maybe what you need to do is upload a sample file and provide a link...... This matter only piqued my interest initially because I was curious how "A=445" would sound like, but I couldn't find anything on the Web. (Half the problem is it that SACDs sold online, in contrast to CDs and MP3 files, never include music samples. The music samples for the CDs and MP3 files that I listened to were all the proper pitch/speed.)
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Listen to Oistrakh's East German and Russian recordings of the concerto. And as I've noted before, even in West Germany, the Munich Phil tuned to A444. Hey - maybe that's why you like Celibidache's Bruckner so much! ;-)
David Oistrakh obviously had no problem at all tuning and playing as sharp as the European conductors wanted.
Also, in a late 50s Columbia recording session with Ormandy and Isaac Stern (who stayed in town after a concert for the chance to participate), he didn't want to record the planned Bach double violin concerto because he was scheduled to record it with his son Igor. So the Philadelphia Orchestra librarian found a Vivaldi double violin concerto and everyone basically sight read it for the recording. Then Oistrakh said, "What else are we playing?" They took out various things and Oistrakh just tore through them perfectly, with no rehearsal or preparation, until about 8 in the evening when he finally called it a day.
An amazing violinist.
A recording playing too fast at A=445 often takes on a strange "tonal quality" to it..... A slight "Alvin" (Chipmunks) effect, if you will..... I'm very sensitive to incorrect playback speeds, but not so much to an orchestra naturally playing "sharp" or "flat".
If it's the "Alvin" effect from fast playback speed, the effect is exactly the same with digital signals as it is with analog signals. (Provided no additional processing is utilized.)
I tell you, Todd - we do not hear things the same way! ;-)
Or to say this another way, the harmonic structure of a voice played back too fast of a speed is different from the harmonic structure of the same voice naturally (no pun) singing sharp at the same pitch..... Unless the singer inhales helium, the "Alvin" effect is never present in the latter case. But it is always present in the former. It doesn't matter whether the recording is analog or digital. As long as it's otherwise unadulterated.(Although digital recording is almost always the correct speed throughout the process. From recording session to final product. It is almost impossible to vary the pitch digitally without otherwise mangling the signal. The only clean way to do this is vary the clock speed of the playback. But audio players with such facility seem to be very rare. But a 44.1 kHz WAV file played back at 48 kHz will have a similar effect to a 33 rpm record played back at 45. Including the "Alvin" effect.)
That said, there are so many processing options in the digital realm to doctor recordings. Including making the time/speed faster or slower without changing pitch. (No "Alvin" effect occurs if the pitch is the same. Although other strange artifacts are introduced.) I wouldn't be shocked if there was an application out there that even removes the "Alvin" effect from recordings encoded "fast" (raised pitch) relative to the original.
Edits: 09/13/15 09/13/15 09/13/15
Yes, if the singer sings sharp there will be more sound waves to fit in the spaces in their body. However, if the recording is speeded up then the original number of sound waves will fit in a shrunken body (resonance wise). Plus, of course, the tempo will change and the associated timing. These are all changes that happen with a different turntable speed or a slightly different sampling rate. If one does a small sample rate conversion one can get similar changes with a digital recording. (Here the sample rate is actually changed, but then the new file header lists the original sample rate. This is no different than remastering an LP at 45 RPM and leaving the label saying 33.3.)
There are digital techniques that change the pitch without changing the timing or tempo. Similarly, there are digital techniques that change the timing and tempo without changing the pitch. They work "magically" by deleting cycles from the sound waves. The reality is that they don't really work that well, because they generate artifacts which will be more or less obvious depending on the quality of the software (and amount of processing available) and the amount of change required. In extreme cases these can be applied to individual notes or portions of individual notes and then the problems become musical as well as sonic (as in Autotune).
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
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