Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

Very effective demo

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In Reply to: RE: Magnepan LRS with two 1x12 OB subs and dspNexus 2/8 DSP control center posted by HAL2010 on November 14, 2024 at 13:41:17

and congrats on the latest dspNexus with newest SHARC and AK4499 DAC chips.

The demo is very impressive, but I suspect the majority of (ehem) older gentlemen around here will find the whole measurement/dsp/FIR-IIR/AudioWeaver endeavor rather daunting.

Is there any plans for simpler, easier-to-use solution in the future? I would personally LOVE (and would pay for) something as easy to use as dbx Driverack to measure/dsp/correct but with much better digital and analogue parts!

Follow Ups:

RE: Very effective demo - saucyworchester 09:09:07 11/15/24 (0)
Now don't be ageist Jon. I just rewired my Tardis for cleaner phase reception and clearer chocolate notes upon re-entry.
RE: Very effective demo - HAL2010 02:51:06 11/15/24 (6)
Jon L,
When a customer purchased a dspNexus 2/8 from Hollis Audio Labs, I am bundled with the system to be the crossover designer that works with them to make measurements and then create the DSP crossover processing needed for the system. This includes guiding the customer through Room EQ Wizard measurements for room bass management.

The implementation depends on if you are just doing speaker correction on the existing speaker and crossover or doing a fully active speaker with multiple amps. Integrating subwoofers is part of the system design.

The system has a balance mic input on the front panel to work with a phantom powered measurement mic like a Dayton Audio EMM-6 or Beyerdynamics MM1 with their calibration data with a mic stand and XLR cable to use with REW for the measurements and calculate the correction needed.

That is a bit different than other systems for DSP use, but the results have been improvements for all customers. This includes customers that went the DEQX route before the dspNexus.
Better Living Through Audio Nirvana
- RE: Very effective demo - dumpingground 05:52:35 11/15/24 (5)
  Can you share a little more details about the DSP filter crossover design choices you recommend for the customers and the improvements that result? Some of those discussions are briefly discussed in the YT video.
  Specifically,
  With DSP power, one can change the slopes and and crossover points from the OEM 1st order and 2nd order design (at least in a Mag 1.6 parallel crossover). With steeper slopes you can band limit the tweeter to higher frequencies and woofer to lower frequencies more effectively.
  What are some of the considerations for high passing the woofer panel if one has subs in the setup to remove the lower frequencies from the magnepan woofer? lower distortion? What goes into selecting the high pass specific crossover point and slope?
  
  Edits: 11/15/24 11/15/24
  - RE: Very effective demo - HAL2010 12:00:33 11/15/24 (4)
    With Audio Weaver I typically use Linkwitz-Riley or Butterworth crossovers that can be selected as 1st order to 10th order rates. I have been using 8th order L-R for the crossover 2-way or 3-way for multiamp connections. High pass on the woofers for all uses as it removed out of band signals that can cause slapping of the diaphragm when to large to reproduce.
    
    I have been using acoustical or electrical L-R 8th order crossovers to integrate subs to the Magnepan speakers at higher frequencies and using time delay on the mains if the subs are behind them. This removes more LF energy from the planars for lower distortion.
    
    All the amps benefit from direct drive use since they only have to cover a smaller frequency range for each driver. Less stress on the amp and power supplies.
    
    I use REW to measure the responses of the speaker and sub independently and see if there is a frequency that makes sense, but if the response is flat enough, then choose a frequency that is an octave above the speaker rolloff for the crossover point to the sub. The video demo uses that idea for integrating the LRS to the OB subs.
    Better Living Through Audio Nirvana
    - RE: Very effective demo - dumpingground 12:42:25 11/15/24 (3)
      If you change from the factory OEM crossover slopes to a 8th order L-R, do you still try and keep the same acoustical crossover point? In the case of a Maggie 1.6 which I am most familiar with the acoustical crossover is about 600hz, with OEM crossover slopes of approximately:
      LP LR 12db/oct @ 400hz
      HP BW 6db/oct @ 1475hz
      
      With the ability of a DSP based crossover of 8th order L-R that might become:
      LP LR 48db/oct @500hz
      HP LR 48db/oct @600hz
      
      I can understand the advantage of using DSP based crossover hardware to allow the power amp to directly connect to the panels and to only be responsible for amplifying the pass bandwidth of power that the active crossover passes thru. But I am trying to better understand the benefits of changing from the lower order OEM to higher order DSP crossover slopes.
      - RE: Very effective demo - HAL2010 13:40:15 11/15/24 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Very effective demo posted by dumpingground on November 15, 2024 at 12:42:25
        
        By using high rate crossovers, the driver frequency overlap is much less and out of band signals to the individual drive foils is lower. Since the 3 drive foils are on one mylar diaphragm, taking excursion out of all foils lowers distortion for the entire planar speaker.
        
        Just correcting the woofer foil output to be at the same output level as the tweeter/supertweeter foils drops the diaphragm excursion.
        
        Crossover points are the same as I am correcting the original speaker with passive crossover installed in this demo. Not a direct drive setup as I did for CAF2023 with the MG10/QR speakers and disconnected the passive crossover to run each drive coil/foil to new 5-way connectors on the plate.
        
        This is a third party on-axis measurement of the LRS speaker model. I do not see that as a flat on-axis response. I used this as the basis for the speaker correction for the LRS at CAF2024 that I then integrated to the two 1x12 OB subs.
        
        Better Living Through Audio Nirvana
        
        RE: Very effective demo - josh358 12:17:22 11/16/24 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Very effective demo posted by HAL2010 on November 15, 2024 at 13:40:15
        
        What distance did he measure it at? The exaggerated bass suggests to me that he measured close up. You cannot do that with dipoles. They must be measured further back, or all you measure is the dipole equalization.
        
        RE: Very effective demo - HAL2010 19:23:10 11/16/24 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Very effective demo posted by josh358 on November 16, 2024 at 12:17:22
        
        The measurement distance was 51in, which is farther than the aperture length.
        Better Living Through Audio Nirvana

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