Planar Speaker Asylum

Welcome! Need support, you got it. Or share your ideas and experiences.

Planar Speaker Asylum

MGIIIA XO Mods

73.179.74.139

I live in Fort Lauderdale.
Is there anyone that performs XO upgrades/mods to the MGIIIA in southern florida using the best components to yield real world sonic improvements? I don't want to ship these speakers for fear of damaging. All drivers were replaced 2 years ago at MAgnepan when I purchased. Stock wiring/XO components. Wan to take to next level. Also looking for soundanchor stands for MGIIIA.
Bill

Follow Ups:

Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. - Cory M. 19:34:49 02/23/16 (12)
50M current/ previous IIIA owners can't be wrong.

Cory
- RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. - Swamis Cat 10:03:52 02/25/16 (11)
  Dumb question, but what is the easiest way for me to biamp my IIIa's? I get that I need a second amp, but which active crossover component do you recommend?
  
  I think it would be interesting to compare my IIIa's biamped to my 3.7i's, assuming I can do it without spending too much (I already have multiple amps).
  
  Any specific advice for a cheapskate with zero electronics skills? Can I do it for less than $500?
  - RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. - Satie 11:56:05 02/25/16 (10)
    Yes you can,
    
    You need a 3rd order analog XO (use it only for low pass so it does not matter which number of channels output) Old Ashly "/18" models and Crown vfx2(a) , others that I am not familliar with personally are available from Furman and Electro Voice.
    
    The Bryston 10B is the best commercial one to get but rarely found in your budget.
    
    On the high end side there are 3rd order XOs from the 80s made by Accuphase, Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha.
    
    Marchand can build you what you need though even just a 2 channel electronic low pass filter is likely to bust your budget.
    
    Finally, there is the Firstwatt B4 crossover that will fill out what you need and with 1st class SQ. The schematics are floating around and there are plenty of knockoffs of it available at decent prices, you just need to keep an eye out on the used audiophile gear websites.
    
    For high pass filter a passive filter composed of a foil cap with or without a shunt resistor. It would be passive at line level and is easy to construct - many of us can make you one quite cheaply.
    - RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. - Swamis Cat 08:47:41 02/26/16 (9)
      Thx, Satie
      
      So, there isn't an affordable, easy, off the shelf Marchand crossover or similar which I can hook up between my preamp and amps which would allow someone allergic to a soldering iron to plug and play with biamping?
      - RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. - Satie 10:58:18 02/26/16 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. posted by Swamis Cat on February 26, 2016 at 08:47:41
        
        If you buy a used 2 way or single filter Marchand XO you can get the proper plug in boards from Phil with the needed slopes/freq. You just take out the old ones and plug in the new. The boards are cheap enough. The performance is very good.
        Marchand has a cheaper XM-9 XO that might fit your budget, at least used.
        The old commercial 3rd order XOs are not that expensive. There is a cheap current production DOD piece you can try out at $100 or less.
        The Ashly stereo 2 way stereo XR22/18 should cost under $300 in good operating condition. A pair of mono XR20/18 at or just about $300.
        The Crown VFX2 goes for $200-300 on ebay.
        There are quite a few of these on craigslist but it takes an effort to gt a local to send it to you and not likely you find one locally unless you are in LA Chicago or NYC metro areas..
        
        http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/dod-sr835-2-way-or- (Open in New Window)
        
        Edits: 02/26/16
        
        RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. - Swamis Cat 10:54:42 02/29/16 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. posted by Satie on February 26, 2016 at 10:58:18
        
        Thx Satie,
        
        I do wish it wasn't so complicated though.
        
        RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. - BDP24 17:06:01 08/05/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. posted by Swamis Cat on February 29, 2016 at 09:54:42
        
        SC---Going the bi-amp direction instead of upgrading the stock MGIIIA x/o is actually simpler imo. Even after spending a lot of $ to buy expensive parts to replace the cheap parts in the external x/o boxes, you still need to run speaker cables not only from your power amp to both the external x/o boxes, but also short runs from the boxes to the MGIIIA's, going through the notoriously crappy connectors on the box a second time. When you replace the external x/o boxes with a line-level x/o, that second run of speaker cables goes directly from the second power amp directly to the drivers. Big advantage! In fact, both amplifiers in a bi-amped MGIIIA system will be connected directly to the drivers themselves, not to speaker-level x/o parts if not bi-amped. A much better situation!
        Bi-amping offers another big advantage, as Satie and others have said, of allowing the M/T drivers to be powered by an amp chosen specifically for it's superior midrange and highend sound quality, and the woofer drivers by an amp chosen for it's bass quality. Another big advantage.
        As to cost, the First Watt B4 2-way x/o is sold brand new by Reno Hi-fi for $1250, and provides an unlimited choice of x/o filter characteristics, 1st/2nd/3rd/4th order 6-12-18-24dB/octave slopes in 25Hz increments from 25Hz up into the midrange for both highpass and lowpass, independent of each other. The filters are produced with discrete components, not op-amps, and will certainly provide superior sound than will the stock speaker-level x/o's with upgraded parts, no matter how much you spend on the parts. Bi-amping really is THE way to go!
        
        Edits: 08/05/16 08/05/16 08/05/16 08/05/16 08/06/16
        
        MGIII bi-amp - Skeepowder 14:33:10 08/05/16 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Yep. I have IIIA's. I recommend bi-amping as well. posted by Swamis Cat on February 29, 2016 at 09:54:42
        
        Did you ever do this and how was it? I'm going to bi-amp my MGIIIs.
        Mac MC7106, Maggie MG111, ADS 810 & 780, Pioneer SC-1522, Carver M.0.5T, Dahlquist 903, Velodyne, Infinity
        
        RE: MGIII bi-amp - Satie 03:28:10 08/06/16 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: MGIII bi-amp posted by Skeepowder on August 05, 2016 at 14:33:10
        
        I do think that BD24 is suggesting a good and very flexible idea in the First Watt B4 crossover. It is easier to use if you need to alter frequencies and slopes. It should sound better than the Marchand and it is not horribly expensive and is a current model..
        
        RE: MGIII bi-amp - BDP24 23:19:05 08/06/16 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: MGIII bi-amp posted by Satie on August 06, 2016 at 03:28:10
        
        I just happened to get lucky, as a used B4 appeared on Audiogon right when I was looking for a good analog x/o. I had just missed a Marchand XM44, which would have been equally acceptable to me. The cool thing about the B4 is that there are no x/o cards that need to be bought separately, as all frequencies and slopes are selected via internal DIP switches. I'll be using the B4 with a number of different speakers and subs, and the no extra cost feature of the x/o is a nice bonus, allowing me to try all kinds of x/o arrangements for free!
        
        RE: MGIII bi-amp - Satie 04:54:49 08/08/16 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: MGIII bi-amp posted by BDP24 on August 06, 2016 at 23:19:05
        
        Yes, that is one of the reasons I sold the XM44, I was just done soldering and desoldering parts every time I had to do a new freq or slope. Gets well beyond tedious, and I was using it less and less,
        
        I made a set of level and freq pots in my line level XO so I could alter it simply. I calibrated the pots so that I could get reasonable precision without taking them out to measure where the pot was set. For bass,low pass I either used the Ashly 3rd order or 2nd order (I have 2 Ashly XOs) or the Rane LR4.
        
        RE: MGIII bi-amp - atkin11j@yahoo.com 14:51:09 08/26/16 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: MGIII bi-amp posted by Satie on August 08, 2016 at 04:54:49
        
        My MGIIIA's are mothballed right now, but I gave this project some thought as well.
        
        What about running a good electronic crossover like this:
        http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-cx3400-super-x-pro-crossover
        
        And a second amplifier?
        
        It seemed the results would be far better than the factory crossovers. Granted things might be better with higher $$ equipment but as a budget alternative would this not work?
        
        Derek.-
        
        RE: MGIII bi-amp - Satie 15:32:28 08/26/16 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: MGIII bi-amp posted by atkin11j@yahoo.com on August 26, 2016 at 14:51:09
        
        Only so long as you are only using it for LP on the bass panel and not passing the mid and top signal through it. The analog behringer XO is rather rough. Also does not maintain tight extended bass as well as the better units from Rane and Ashly. The Rane units have been around for a long time so you can find tham on craigslist for about the same as the new Behringer. I got an TRS ac 23 for less - a bit by chance and a bit by looking carefully.
        
        The 3rd order Ashly from the 70s and 80s will either need to be bought refurbished or get a major recap with modern high temp Nichicons etx..Either way will set you back $3-500, cheaper for the 2way XOs. But they are a better match for maggies and 1st order high pass filters. You would want the SC 22/18 stereo 2 way, or the stereo 3 way XR 77/18 Alternately you can get the mono units which seem to be more plentiful in beat up but working order the SC 20/18 two way mono. you would need two of them - getting two could be cheaper than getting a single stereo one..
RE: MGIIIA XO Mods - Satie 10:10:38 02/21/16 (0)
I think biamping is a better way to go. The parts for the low pass section in the external box get very expensive as you go up the quality curve into boutique parts.Direct drive of the bass panel improves amp performance at both the top amp (which does not need to perform well in the bass) and the bottom amp (that one does not need to have a pristine mid or treble performance) and woofer control So the cost of the biamp setup is not that much higher and the results in performance and flexibility in tuning to your room make the expenditure more effective.
I third the bi-amping if you can. - grantv 08:07:03 02/21/16 (0)
I would upgrade the internals only and bi-amp to bypass the external box. This takes the IIIA to a whole other level...
Can I suggest ... - andyr 19:42:08 02/20/16 (1)
Having been through what you are contemplating, may years ago that you adopt neo's suggestion and go 2-way active. Of course, you will need a second amp but, like neo, I believe the end result will be better than replacing the components in the external XO box with high quality parts. (And remember, the high quality parts are much bigger, physically, than the ones Magnepan used - so you will have to build yourself a box to put them in ... if you want them to look good.)

Here's what I did, when I built new external passive XOs over 15 years ago (my woodworking skills were not advanced enough to make a nice box! :-)) ). That piece of wood is about 20" long!:

And I suggest braced Mye stands will deliver better SQ than Sound Anchor stands - due to their bracing.

Good luck,

Andy
- RE: Can I suggest ... - Roger Gustavsson 01:49:35 02/21/16 (0)
  Replacing the external crossover with an active crossover and an additional power amplifier is the way to go. Keep the internal crossover or upgrade the components. Not sure the original slopes are the best.
  
  I am not that impressed by the stands from Mye or Sound Anchor, they do not support the MDF-baffle well, just hold them in place. I prefer stiffening the baffle, it is really weak in some areas. The staples holding the main driver is not the best solution. The ribbon tweeter need a bit of lossy mounting in order to isolate it from the vibrations of the main driver.
RE: MGIIIA XO Mods - A.Wayne 13:33:31 02/20/16 (0)
Try old Larry at Hollywood sounds
- http://www.hwdsound.com (Open in New Window)
RE: MGIIIA XO Mods - neolith 12:43:24 02/20/16 (0)
Before you blow a lot of money on the crossovers consider active biamping. It actually can be cheaper than upgrades and will definitely sound better -- nothing subtle.

Post a Followup:

FAQ

Post a Message!

Forgot Password?

Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
	Remember my Moniker & Password (What's this?) Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:

Message:	(Posts are subject to Content Rules)

Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:	Automagically notify you when someone responds.

To view your new posting or follow-up, click on the RELOAD or REFRESH button on your browser.

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

Atma-Sphere Music Systems, Inc.