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Picts

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In Reply to: RE: Awesome you tried it!! posted by R. Jamm on May 23, 2010 at 18:53:50

I'll do a full write up later this week and submit for the archives.

But the jist is that you put strips on the pole piece being careful not to block the tiny holes:

stock pole piece

Vmax Dynamat like material but with black backing

pole piece about half done

Tip use the portion that doesnt have adhesive to overlap the earlier piece
And put bigger strips around the frame on the mylar side (pict with Dynamat extreme):

dont touch the mylar with the dynamat!

See that gap at the top between the mdf and the driver?? I put rope caulk in there on the final rev. Also do be careful not to touch the mylar...the adhesive is sticky and well you dont want to hurt the mylar. And DONT put any on the bottom horizontal run. The tweeter is painted in there and so are the bass wires. If you put it there dont remove it ever as you will break the tweeters. Look at this pict. I peeled my wires back for my radical binding post mod and if you look on the left side you can see where the tweeters used to be on the frame because they leave a white line where I peeled them back:

dont put any on the bottom horizontal piece

Dawnrazor, do you feel like the material from Parts Express give better results than Dynamat or are just easier to use?

Well the dynamat extreme is heavier and thicker. Cosmetically it is not the best as you can see it through the grill. The parts express stuff is much easier to work with and is black...easier to cut too, and the part that doesnt have adhesive helps for removal and over laping:

The stuff Accurus mentions may be best of all. I havent used it though but it is thick and black and heavy...twice what I used. But my only concern is that on the pole pieces I would be concerned that too thick might have some issue with the holes. I dont know. One mine I used the thicker dynamat on the mylar side and just put strips of the parts express stuff over it for cosmetics. In that application I think the thickness is not a big deal.

HTH

D

Follow Ups:

RE: Picts - R. Jamm 06:27:05 05/31/10 (2)
Dawnrazor

In this link: (http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=145929&highl -- you used Dynamat strips for the pole piece. Why did you removed it and used Vmax? Is it easy to remove in case you made a mistake?
- RE: Picts - Dawnrazor 07:23:46 05/31/10 (1)
  RJ,
  
  There was some lame criticism about the dynamat never coming off and the silver of the dynamat extreme being less than cosmetically appealing.
  
  I wanted to show that all that was not the case. One COULD remove the stuff and that you could make it black so cosmetically there was no issue.
  
  There simply is no excuse to stop an inmate from improving their speakers!!!
  - RE: Picts - R. jamm 08:07:49 05/31/10 (0)
    One more question
    Cascade V-MAXMP Aluminum Damping or Damplifier?
    Damplifier is 1.5 mm thick and Damplifier Pro is 1.75 - 2 mm thick-- do you think that this might be too thick to go between the poles? I can get the Damplifer at a better price than I can the Cascade. Also, what is the thickness of the Cascade?
RE: Picts - Accurus 20:20:30 05/23/10 (9)
I never did go as far as the pole pieces on mine. So for me is just the cross bracing and the front exposed magnet panel. I am yielding excellent results from just that. It is a much simpler install that making individual slits for each pole piece. Dawnrazor definitely went the extra mile with that. :)
- RE: Picts - Dawnrazor 20:44:29 05/23/10 (8)
  Ah Hah!!
  
  Sure the frame makes a big difference, but the pole pieces need to be done too.
  
  Tell you what Accurus, just do about 10 strips and see what you think...but be careful, as you will want to keep going.
  
  Glad the picts helped get a handle on what I was doing.
  
  And FWIW you arent the first to tell me that just doing the frame yielded great results.
  
  Try taking it further and do the pole pieces even if it looks like the pict in the link below
  - http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=145929&highl (Open in New Window)
  - RE: Picts - Accurus 12:10:15 05/26/10 (7)
    Well I did the back crossbars with impressive results. Maybe on Monday I will sit down and work on the individual pole pieces. So fa rthis mod is just astounding as to how it can convert a stock Magnepan into a Magnepan that sounds like the crossover has ben reworked and a wood frame has been built.
    - RE: Picts - R. Jamm 20:32:00 05/26/10 (6)
      Accurus,
      
      How do the damplifered 10's compared to the 2.7's with damplifer and without? From what you said the only mod on the 2.7 is the damplifer. How much of an improvement do you say that the damplifer makes? 10%,15% or 50% better than without. Will this change your mind to put wood on the 2.7 and a modded crossover?
      - RE: Picts - Accurus 21:37:17 05/26/10 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Picts posted by R. Jamm on May 26, 2010 at 20:32:00
        
        I think I have changed my mind about doing wood frames on my 2.7s after doing the mod of the damplifier mod on the 2.7s and comparing them to my MG10s. The main goal behind doing the wood frame mod in my mind was to improve the issues involved with MDF and Magnepans. With my MG10s I heard a big difference going from MDF to wood. However I would say that now I am in wood frame country after using damplifier of stock 2.7s. The difference in sound is just amazing. The insane part is the differnce that it made on the MG10s. It took the MG10s to a whole new level of image clarity and overall detail. It has done the same thing to my 2.7s.
        
        I am now beginning to work on the individual magnet pieces on the 2.7s. This is a long and tedious cutting process. I am not totally sure if I am hearing a substantial difference with the individual magnets. I have been experimenting with placing in it places that I think would clearly need dampening like the magnets that are located between the bass area and the midrange and on the double wire section of the bass section. I think I am hearing more refinement in the bass in that it is more detailed and has more attack to it. The problem is that I have been listening to my speakers and doing the mods at the same time. So it is beginning to blur. However I think the more damplifier I am adding the better it is sounding. There are some recordings I am listening to that I thought were harsh or brittle before that sound great and I have more resolution than before.
        
        While I may have talked myself out of doing wood frames on my 2.7s I have in no way done so in regards to crossovers. Compared to my MG10s I am still hearing some veiling of material, though the 2.7s have a overall superior presentation by far. I have taken what Mart did with his crossovers and tweaked it a little bit as it seemed like I could get a little smoother response altering some numbers (Mart: Chime in with why you chose the values you did. Is what you came up with as good as it gets and I am doing something weird?) Really crossover mods regardless of framing and dampening always make sense. They provide better resolution for the driver to produce, which it will do all the better if it is dampened properly.
        
        RE: Picts - R. Jamm 04:43:23 05/28/10 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Picts posted by Accurus on May 26, 2010 at 21:37:17
        
        Hi,
        You put damplifer on the 10�s (and the 10�s are in wood frame) and it made a great improvement. Do you think that you might add a wood frame to the 2.7 later on to take them up to another level?
        
        On the 10�s, did you removed the panel from the wood and placed damplifer on the frame of the panel and replaced the panel back into the wood (panel-damplifer-wood) or did you just placed damplifer around the frame near the wood?
        
        RE: Picts - Accurus 05:51:42 05/28/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Picts posted by R. Jamm on May 28, 2010 at 04:43:23
        
        As I said before I don't think I will make wood frames for the 2.7s. The sonic difference is getting closer and closer to 0% as the project progresses. I think a couple hundred bucks on wood and a lot of hours in time would be better spent doing another project on my system. If you think about it the whole point of the wood frame beyond aesthetics is to dampen the magnet structure properly because the MDF does not do this as well as real wood. The damplifier is coupling directly to the magnet structure in ways that the wood cannot do because of the nature of the material. damplifier and can cut into very small pieces and put on the pole pieces. You are essentially tackling vibration before you ever get to the driver frame.
        
        As for how I applied the damplifier to my wood MG10s I pull the wood frame apart and applied the damplifier on the metal frame of the driver and then but the wood frame back on.
        
        RE: Picts - Dawnrazor 20:05:05 05/27/10 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Picts posted by Accurus on May 26, 2010 at 21:37:17
        
        HI Accurus,
        
        Putting strips on the pole pieces is a tedious job.
        
        But I have to tell you that my impression was that as good as doing the frames made things, the pole pieces were a bigger improvement, and I never got to a point where there was too much. So I agree with your assessment that the more you add, the better it sounds.
        
        If the dynamat or the dampliner as you are using made a difference with your 10s even after you did the wood frame, then I can see why you wouldnt want to do a wood frame for the 2.7. I myself am in zero hurry although I have the wood.
        
        Do update us when you get the whole thing damped. Also that dampliner is probably better than the dynamat extreme if you go by weight and specs. On the driver frames, I have used the dynamat extreme and then a layer of the cascade product I bought because it is black.
        
        Anyhow I am glad that such a simple thing is paying off for people big time.
        
        Thanks again to all who have tried it and now can see why I am so excited about the results.
        
        RE: Picts - dawit98 20:47:42 05/27/10 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Picts posted by Dawnrazor on May 27, 2010 at 20:05:05
        
        Sorry for the delayed response, but I did the frame, around the staples as indicated on your initial post. The combination of biamping, chokes, mye stand, and finally the dynamat took my mg3.6r to preform like speakers costing ten folds the price paid.
        
        RE: Picts - Dawnrazor 11:53:01 05/31/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Picts posted by dawit98 on May 27, 2010 at 20:47:42
        
        Yeah D98,
        
        It is amazing what a little tweaking will do to the performance of a pair of maggies.
        
        DId you ever try the pole pieces? That made an even bigger difference on mine over just the frames, though I think they work together.
        
        ALso on those myes do you fill them? If not try some of the dynamat there too.

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