Planar Speaker Asylum

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Planar Speaker Asylum

Glad I could help spoil your evening.

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In Reply to: RE: New OLD MMGs - Many Wow's - 2 big concerns posted by JBen on May 24, 2008 at 14:59:18

One note about the vertical thing. It is possible to get your head too high.

If your head is in the middle of the panel it is great, but if your head is higher than a bit lower than 3/4 of the way up the panel, it sounds really bad.

So if you are too high, consider raising the panels a bit so you are in the middle of the panel.

I forgot to mention that.

From what I heard, the Emu 404 usb is a bit on the warm side and is problably a bit to blame with the lack of high end detail. Well, here is a link that talks about it in relation to the sound card I own...which is very detailed, but not bright unless the recording is. Also what OS and software are you using with the 404? It can make a big difference.

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=24659&highlight=emu+aljordan (Open in New Window)

Follow Ups:

RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. - JBen 14:41:20 05/27/08 (8)
On speaker height: Yes, as long as I still have them on the floor, ear level is just fine while sitting on my sofa.

On the E-MU 0404 usb: It is a surprisingly good performer, for the price. It is not so much "warm" as it is musical. Running Foobar, WinXP.
The drivers are always a pain because they interact easily with other stuff...but it does sound good.

My Denon 2910 player was just slightly better with RB plus it was my SACD player. It broke a few days ago and I have just left it for repairs. In the meantime, all I have to play SACDs with, is a Samsung unit that is a far cry from the Denon and the E-MU (this one in redbook from lossless files).

Anyway, the weaknesses I heard from my MMGs were apparent with far better hardware than I have. I'd be curious as to how much better they would sound now using the same equipment -- after the two minor tweaks made so far. My friend is leaving for Europe soon, perhaps when he returns.

In the meantime, I am setting up the E-MU and REW in my multimedia PC to do some more objective testing.
- RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. - Dawnrazor 17:40:43 05/27/08 (7)
  Hey.
  
  What is REW??
  
  In Foobar, are you using the ASIO ouput? If not do so as it can make a big difference over direct sound. Kernal streaming is something to try too.
  
  FWIW, there are better players than Foobar IMHO. Here is a link to some listening I did:
  
  http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=pcaudio&n=30823&highlight=tier&r=&session=
  
  Also, when you say the drivers interact with other stuff, what do you mean??
  - RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. - JBen 23:11:30 05/27/08 (6)
    -- REW = Room Equalization Wizard - http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/
    Mostly used to find room curves for subwoofer equalization. I have used it for general full range frequency measures.
    
    -- In Foobar, yes I use ASIO for music (the motherboard has built-in Realtek sound that is great for movies but not music.) For music, I have to hook up the 0404 and disable the Realtek stuff.
    
    -- Interesting view about Foobar and the other options. I'll see about trying Wavelab. The 0404 USB is so tightly integrated with its ASIO that I doubt the programs themselves make a difference (for lossless files) Then again, experimenting is always fun.
    
    -- The 0404 USB and its drivers were not initially designed for what I use it. The whole thing is a bit CPU intensive and then has drivers that were patched up along the way to accommodate more uses.
    - RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. - Dawnrazor 17:40:03 05/28/08 (5)
      -- In Foobar, yes I use ASIO for music (the motherboard has built-in Realtek sound that is great for movies but not music.) For music, I have to hook up the 0404 and disable the Realtek stuff.
      
      If I understand what you are saying you might not have to do that. Set your realtek as the default. IF you set Foobar up with ASIO, then it will only work with the ASIO driver you select (USB404). There will be no need to enable or disable. Any other program not using ASIO will grab the Realtek.
      
      -- Interesting view about Foobar and the other options. I'll see about trying Wavelab. The 0404 USB is so tightly integrated with its ASIO that I doubt the programs themselves make a difference (for lossless files) Then again, experimenting is always fun.
      
      I know what you are saying. That is what I once thought. But the software players all sound a bit different. Wavelab is made by Steinberg who created ASIO (so their drivers are probably better than others). Lossless especially will behave differently (I know lossless is lossless BUT the decoding matters as does the extra processing needed).
      
      Placebo is always an issue in such tests, but Wavelab is the LAST player I wanted to like. It is the worst GUI and it doesnt work with mp3toys like Foobar does. But it sounded better. It was designed to work in a studio and create music so sound quality is paramount.
      
      I know it is hard to believe, but so is 26g magwire :).......
      - RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. - JBen 16:58:04 05/29/08 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. posted by Dawnrazor on May 28, 2008 at 17:40:03
        
        I so wished you were right about running the 0404USB and the Realtek side by side! No luck finding a way to make it happen and E-MU/Creative say it can't happen (in Windows, for now). But, hey, who knows! When I bought my first PC in 84, IBM said its memory could not be increased. Two weeks after buying it, I was soldering in memory CHIPS that doubled it...while crapping my pants at the thought of ruining the computer.
        
        Just got some 20ft of rubber vacuum hose at an auto parts to see if I can fit 2 strands (one terminal set) of magwire through. I may not be able to do much until Sunday. Wavelab I may be able to squeeze in for a quick and dirty comparo...then later do more testing.
        
        BTW, one strand of 26GA magwire measures at just 1db less SP than the MonsterXP. Remarkable! (white and pink noise 8ft from center of both speakers, C weighted).
        
        Lastly, the image-shifting reported before still happens. However, it may be that it comes with the recordings (or equipment) and the magwire is showing more of it. At least one recording behaves that way with both cables. In that particular case magwire makes it more evident. Ahhh, the hardships of improved accuracy! I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE TRANSISTOR RADIO!!!!not
        
        RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. - Dawnrazor 21:29:34 05/29/08 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. posted by JBen on May 29, 2008 at 16:58:04
        
        Hey,
        
        I so wished you were right about running the 0404USB and the Realtek side by side! No luck finding a way to make it happen and E-MU/Creative say it can't happen (in Windows, for now). But, hey, who knows!
        
        Ok I know this works as I have done it on 2 different machines.
        
        Enable BOTH cards, but set your Realtek as the DEFAULT. In the exapmle below, I have enabled my onboard Realtex and set it as the default.
        
        Here is shown that the M-audio is still installed as is the Realtex, but the M-audio is not the default. YOu would do the same with the EMU.
        
        Then, in Foobar set the output to asio and select the Emu driver....in this example, I have selected the M-audio driver:
        
        So, ONLY Foobar can talk to the EMU. Everything else outputs to the Realtex.
        
        It has been a while, but I thought that is what you wanted to happen.
        
        Just got some 20ft of rubber vacuum hose at an auto parts to see if I can fit 2 strands (one terminal set) of magwire through. I may not be able to do much until Sunday. Wavelab I may be able to squeeze in for a quick and dirty comparo...then later do more testing.
        
        Yikes. Rubber is a horrible material to use. I once used the greyish rubber screen track for holding wires, and used the round grommet strips for interconnects...this sounds terrible. Try it, but I never liked it. As bad as PVC is (and it really isnt that bad) rubber is terrible. If PVC is a 7, rubber is like a 2 or 3.
        
        BTW, one strand of 26GA magwire measures at just 1db less SP than the MonsterXP. Remarkable! (white and pink noise 8ft from center of both speakers, C weighted). Wow, I hadn't even thought of measuring that. Glad you did, and I am a bit surprised that it is such a slight loss as to be negligible! That is cool.
        
        Lastly, the image-shifting reported before still happens. However, it may be that it comes with the recordings (or equipment) and the magwire is showing more of it. At least one recording behaves that way with both cables. In that particular case magwire makes it more evident. Ahhh, the hardships of improved accuracy! I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE TRANSISTOR RADIO!!!!not
        
        Interesting. I have not had that shifting, but what you say makes sense if it happens in both. The Magwire is definitely revealing. I sold a pair I had made to a guy and a while later, he was blaming the magwire for a "hiss" or some thing that he was hearing since he bought the magwire. He thought that since it wasn't shielded that it was picking up some stuff. But he liked the overall sound so much that he still kept the wire in the system. Anyhow, a few years pass and I get a call. He had sold his Krell integrated, and the sound was gone. The magwire was just revealing a problem with the krell.
        
        It can be a doubled edge sword, but for the money it is really hard to beat.
        
        Even some one as crazy as me can hear that!
        
        RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. - JBen 22:07:15 05/30/08 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. posted by Dawnrazor on May 29, 2008 at 21:29:34
        
        Well, God blast the Maggies and I'll still be happy, IT WORKED!
        
        Many thanks for going through the trouble of posting the screenshots. They showed clearly that you did the very same thing I had done the last time I tried & failed. This made me believe it could really work if I kept looking. In the end, I swapped out the last Realtek drivers and went back to the original version and that did it. In the process I lost the E-MU screen interface which is useless to me anyway.
        
        It works so well that I had the computer run a HD 1080P movie while piping out the DTS soundtrack via Realtek to the Denon plus Foobar/0404 sending lossless music to my wireless headphones in another room. As I write this, my wife (just out of the hospital today) is watching The Tudors, downloaded in HD 720, while I listen to some music.
        
        So, rubber is a no-no! Ahhh, rats, as long as I already bought it I might as well try.
        
        Thanks again for the extra effort.
        
        AWESOME! - Dawnrazor 10:49:11 05/31/08 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Glad I could help spoil your evening. posted by JBen on May 30, 2008 at 22:07:15
        
        WHEW! It is great to know I am not crazy. Good call on the drivers. I certainly would not have thought of that.
        
        Even better noise about your wife!!!!
        
        Awesome that your PC can do all of that at the same time, it must be a nice rig.
        
        As for the rubber, I am not sure that the screen material I tried was actually rubber. Looking at the dielectric constants of rubber it is about the same as PVC. Unfortunatley I don't know what they make those screen door thing out of, but it was grey. Perhaps the grey coloring can muck things up. I remember Jon Risch who is a cable guru saying that the dies used affected the sound and even had it broken down by color.
        
        If it is really rubber it should be OK:
        http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/dielectric_constants_strengths.htm
        
        Let us know how the magwire works out with the tube. It sounds like you are really digging it and since I haven't heard any complaints about the highs I am guessing that that really helped?
        
        Glad to help!!
        
        RE: AWESOME! - JBen 13:35:29 05/31/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: AWESOME! posted by Dawnrazor on May 31, 2008 at 10:49:11
        
        The PC rig is nice and built for silence...and CHEAP as they come. I'll chase & post specs and another good alternative if there's interest.
        
        Now that my wife is back I am vary happy...even though she hogs the TV/media center preventing me from using the Maggies for listening. I' am restricted to headphones until tomorrow. Anecdote: She did not like Celine Dion much...until she heard her on the Maggies. I had to go get her some more recordings.
        
        That was timely input on the rubber; I had bought just half the amount I need to do this right. I'll get the rest this afternoon.
        
        The highs are much better now and very enjoyable. Ha ha! I suspect they'll never get near the quality of B&W Nautilus speaker tweeters that have spoiled me (though owned by a friend). But I keep trying :)

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