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the pieces of the 'Titan' submersible have been found.
I wonder WHY it took so long, since they knew where it submerged to within 200 feet.....and the currents are fairly known.
But ONE thing that bugs me?
Anyone here ever heard of SOSUS?
This is a large and distributed array of highly sensitive underwater microphones. If still in operation, I guarantee they heard the bubble pop.....even from hundreds of miles away. At the depth of the apparent failure, sound carries a LONG ways.....
We used this sytem to keep an 'ear' on Soviet Submarines since they had to pass near some of these sensors in order to get into the broader Atlantic.....
Too much is never enough
Follow Ups:
The heat generated at instant of decompression of the air in the submersible would be 2 or 3 thousand degrees which would completely evaporate the crew, even before the pressure squeezed them. About 12 million pounds of pressure on a human body at that depth.
Same reason they never found any remains of hijacked 9-11 aircraft that crashed into the pentagon.
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
The implosion would have been rapid, resulting in almost instant death of the five people onboard. But is the claim from the video that the air in the submersible would have reached temperatures comparable to the sun's surface—about 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit—as it imploded true?
Navy Faced Complex Challenge: Suspected Titan Implosion
An undated photo shows the Titan submersible at a sea. The submersible suffered a "catastrophic implosion" that resulted in the death of five people. Ocean Gate/Handout/Anadolu Agency/Getty
According to Jasper Graham-Jones, an associate professor of mechanical and marine engineering at Plymouth University, in the United Kingdom, the claim is "totally false".
"For a start, the water temperature around the Titanic is around 4 degrees Celsius [around 39 degrees Fahrenheit], which acts as a cooling effect," Graham-Jones told Newsweek.
"The collapse of the composite or metal structure would just produce theoretical heat energy due to friction, but this is very low and would not be visible or measurable with the mass of cold water around it."
"We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified," 9-6-2016
"Same reason they never found any remains of hijacked 9-11 aircraft that crashed into the pentagon."
That was a conspiracy theory myth and there was an aircraft debris field from flight 77.
"We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified," 9-6-2016
No, silly, I meant they never found any human remains. Because they were vaporized on impact. Nobody uses the phrase, remains of an aircraft. The reason there was such a widespread conspiracy theory regarding that incident was that no aircraft appeared on either video camera that pointed toward the Pentagon at the time of impact. Which is actually an excellent point, don't you think?
"No, silly, I meant they never found any human remains. Because they were vaporized on impact."
Vaporized? I would think incinerated in the massive fireball by a 757 loaded to the gills with Jet A. When Flight 427 literally drilled in from around 6,000 feet the landscape was strewn with human remains.
"Nobody uses the phrase, remains of an aircraft."
Apparently nobody but you.
"The reason there was such a widespread conspiracy theory regarding that incident was that no aircraft appeared on either video camera that pointed toward the Pentagon at the time of impact. Which is actually an excellent point, don't you think?"
Sure . . . it's obvious that the deep state had the debris field trucked in.
"We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified," 9-6-2016
But I didn't use the word "remains" to indicate aircraft wreckage. You did. Duh!
"Same reason they never found any remains of hijacked 9-11 aircraft"
"We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified," 9-6-2016
Right, the reason they won't find remains of the crew is the same reason they didn't find remains of the passengers of the hijacked 9-11 aircraft. Try to keep up with the conversation.
"they never found any remains of hijacked 9-11 aircraft"Regardless, that's a bad comparison.
One was a vessel which was subjected to 6,000 PSI of external pressure when it was crushed,
and the other was a vessel that was obviously traveling at a rate over the minimum stall speed of a 757 (& probably a whole lot faster with gear up & throttles firewalled) when it rammed into The Pentagon kamikaze style while at atmospheric pressure with possibly as much as 10,000 gallons of Jet A on board. Flight 777 departed from Dulles, so I doubt it achieved much altitude and would have had minimum pressurization (if any) inside.The Titan was imploded and Flight 777 was basically exploded.
"We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified," 9-6-2016
Edits: 06/26/23
Is English your second language? I never said the aircraft imploded. Stop putting words in my mouth.
or I feel sorry for his students.
You typed: "they never found any remains of hijacked 9-11 aircraft"
and then you went on to compare a vessel crushed by 6,000 PSI to a vessel which exploded in a massive fireball and in a later post you claimed that no human remains were recoverable from The Titan and Flight 777 due to the similarity of the catastrophes.
"We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified," 9-6-2016
Nt
"remains"?
"We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified," 9-6-2016
If you're pretending to be slow you're doing an excellent job.
He must have home schooled you."they never found any remains of hijacked 9-11 aircraft"
"1) any pieces, scraps, fragments, etc, that are left unused or still extant, as after use, consumption, the passage of time, etc: the remains of a meal; archaeological remains"
and if that was too much for you to comprehend, there is this:
"pieces or parts of something that continue to exist when most of it has been used, destroyed, or taken away:
The remains of lunch were still on the table.
We visited the remains of a 12th century monastery."
"We can't have someone in the Oval Office who doesn't understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified," 9-6-2016
Edits: 06/27/23 06/27/23 06/27/23
Without regard to 'remains'.....'remnants'......'scrap'.....'fragments'. or any of the other similar meaning words....
'Stuff' is being brought up that if reassembled would turn into the Submersible Titan....
Too much is never enough
Aluminum is good to what? 500c give or take?
I'm not even certain it didn't get hot enough to melt some engine parts......made of very high temp alloys.....Toss in a couple thousand gallons of JPX and you have QUITE the blaze.
Steel girders ran like water.....so it got that hot and to spare.
I get the compression temp increase. We get that here in SoCal when the winds blow down out of the local mountains. I just wonder how much and if TIME allowed such transfer of energy?
DEcompression would tend to cool things....like a fire extinguisher or even a spray can of paint..
Under those conditions, I'd expect MOST of the atmosphere in the 'sub' to simply be pushed into the water. No 'bubbles' probably made it to the surface......Think 'bends'......
Water temp was down around 32f, give or take.
OH! I just got it.......5000 PSI (give or take) TIMES the surface area......That DOES total up to quite a huge value......
Too much is never enough
None of this matters. When the sub imploded, they were all dead within a couple of seconds.
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
I'd GUESS milliseconds......but what do I know?
I doubt they had much 'warning', either......
Popped like a soap bubble...
Too much is never enough
Right, 2,000 Sq. In. x 6,000 psi = 12,000,000 lbsAlso, Pv = nRT
Edits: 06/25/23
Nt
Like the microwave meal: clean and convenient. Death penalty states, please take notice!
It's very sad that this happened. At least, the people onboard died very quickly - crushed almost instantly.
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
what are they gonna say, "its gone, everyone go home"
I guarantee you they told the coast guard.
Nt
Really, Ocean Gate?
Seems best to avoid certain things with Gate in the title after 50 years of "...gate".
SOSUSgate?
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
but you don't advertise that capability unless you run it up the chain of command.
Chris
The mentioned on the news just now that they detected the sound a couple hours after it was reported out of com. They decided not to reveal it as they weren't sure and didn't want to stop the rescue efforts.
One would then have to assume that what ever cut off the coms killed them as they did not drop the ballast etc immediately. IF it was a couple hours, something was going on.
A tiny pin hole leak at 6000psi is a very powerful pressure washer you can't turn off or plug up.
Heard the implosion about 2 hours after the descent began? From what I've read they lost contact about 2 hours into the operation. And that there is evidence efforts were being made to come up at the time.
My understanding is it takes about 2.5 hours to make the descent. I read something about them putting their own sensors in within a day and had heard nothing on them.
So if someone/somewhere in the world heard the implosion during the descent I wonder when those searching for the submersible got that info? There seems to be a 3 day lag in information. Also wonder if there would have been visible activity on the surface of the ocean when the air from the submersible came to the surface.
It's sad they've been using that running out of air time limit to put off revealing what seems to have been obvious from before the end of day 1. Especially if they had that sonic info that others apparently have.
A pop at that depth is the end of a story, the crew died instantly, so you could take your time to figure out your actions.
A few thousand extra tons of burnt diesel fuel is not much to lose your sleep over.
SOSUS is a very highly guarded capability. I suspect limits have been upgraded over the years as quieter electronics and more sensitive microphones become available....
It is SAID they can hear a Whale Fart 1000 miles away.
And that they heard the Russian torpedo strike the US Submarine USSn Scorpion, which was detailed to 'shadow' a Russian fleet on maneuvers....
They were reported overdue and the search began. However? Evidence exists that the SOSUS network heard the implosion of the sub at the right time and based on differential arrival times AT the various sensor locations, were able to 'pin point' the wreck to a fairly high degree....
Too much is never enough
Yes and I hope that information was shared with the OceanGate folks. I see the media is now calling this the Titanic Submarine.
The book in question detailing the search (mostly fake, since the KNEW pretty much where it sank)
is called
'Scorpion Down'.....
Link, so you don't think I'm making this stuff up.....
Too much is never enough
I believe what you are saying as it relates to the implosion being heard by someone. I'm just trying to figure out what OceanGate knew and when in order to correlate that with their public comments. Not sure about the book though.
Sad story about the kid on the Titanic Submarine. He was scared stiff about it but went with his Dad anyways because it was Father's day.
I don't know.
but it would seem that the US Gov keeps SONUS information 'close'. So they may have let some 'hints' slip to other searchers but knew still Other searchers were wasting time......
I give it a 90% that WE knew where it went down within about a 1 mile radius.....and 100% that a debate was had about revealing capabilities.....
This is similar to when the Scorpion went missing in Mid '68
Keep in mind that the Loss Of Comm was about 90 minutes or so into the voyage. That put 'em very close to the bottom when she 'went'....Reducing the circle of search considerably.
Too much is never enough
Today I heard that the sound was heard by the military but it was not definitive that it was the submersible. So that's how the story is going to go so it seems.
They can sell that story and make it 'stick'.....
and not reveal too much capability.
Too much is never enough
the 'array' heard the implosion early on Sunday.
Just because 'we' were able to hear it, doesn't mean we wanted to tell the world and telegraph our capabilities.
Understand?
Chris
Very sensitive capability.
Russsia and others continue to improve and make QUIETER the submarines they use.....
Too much is never enough
Who is "they" and what did "they" do with the information? Seems it's hard to run info up the chain when the top of the chain can't be contacted.
And more so it's impossible to have run anything up the chain if no one in the chain has the info. You seem overly comfortable those giving info on the disaster had information they may not have had - they may have but that conflicts with what I have read about it. And that was my point.
US navy heard the " acoustic anomaly " consistent with implosion sound right after the contact with the sub was lost. I don't think they are obligated to say anything to civilian "search & rescue " branches.
That's what I'm trying to know. This thing has been going on for 4 days now and it really wasn't until after the oxygen ran out that we were told what actually happened. If there was an implosion 2 hours into the descent why would they drag folks on with hope for 3 days?
And wouldn't there had been something visible on the surface? That's one giant air bubble (or millions of smaller ones) coming to the surface near the ship.
Supposedly there is evidence those on the submersible had taken steps to come up. Wondering if that effort began before or after losing contact?
they didn't have even an instant to figure 'things' out.
A typical US Navy sub can descend to 1000', the Sea Wolf class, although classified, can supposedly dive to 1600', so even making it to 6000' would be a stellar feat.
Lots of bad things can happen.
The Titan had a dual composition of carbon fiber and titanium and those dissimilar materials play differently at depth.
One little crack, or blister, is all it took.
Live hard, die fast.
Chris
This is not that complicated.
Once the SOSUS people heard the bubble pop, it was ALL OVER but the search for debris.
No advantage other that saving fuel of searchers in letting the world know ALL that was known about the mishap.
Time? Exact Place?
At some higher level, buy-in was needed to release the information and in such a way as to minimally compromise the program.
Sound in the ocean really has 'carry'. And will reflect in such a way as to 'tunnel' when the sound is above or below what is called a THERMOCLINE. A sub can 'disappear' if they find a good band of COLD WATER and go beneath that level. The minimal sounds they DO make will not rise to the warmer, upper layer......
So when the submerisble imploded in what was basiclly near-frozen salt water? That impulse carried ALL across the Atlantic. Thousands of miles perhaps further.
All received sounds are TIME TAGGED to the microsecond and when multiple stations compare arrival times, a location of the origin of the sound can be arrived at within a very Small radius.
Too much is never enough
"That impulse carried ALL across the Atlantic. Thousands of miles perhaps further.
All received sounds are TIME TAGGED to the microsecond and when multiple stations compare arrival times, a location of the origin of the sound can be arrived at within a very Small radius."
That's all fine and dandy, but the people on board were dead within a second or two.
The phrase "squashed like a bug" comes to mind. How much does two miles of water weigh?
*********
We are inclusive and diverse, but dissent will not be tolerated.
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