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107.141.181.199
"There is no scenario under which Turkey does not end up being seen as (Russian President Vladimir) Putin's mole inside NATO," said Soner Cagaptay, an expert on Turkey at the Washington Institute. "Everybody will forget the objections linked to the PKK. Everybody will focus on the fact that Turkey is blocking NATO's expansion. It will distort the view of Turkey across (NATO)."
--Associated Press
'Nuf said.
Follow Ups:
Such a SIMPLE solution!
Invite Pukin to JOIN. That would defang him quicker than Painless Potter.....
Too much is never enough
Europe needs to learn to take care of itself.
There, I said it.
****
We are inclusive and diverse. But dissent will not be tolerated.
,
Oh, go away, Donald! I'm surprised you have time to read this thread.
A toothless forum for bureaucrats that can't act on anything due to internal disagreements. The more inclusive it is, the less credibility it has as a mutual defense pact.
Sweden is reacting rashly in response to Ukraine. There is no reason to think Sweden will not resume its normal state of thinking after this war dies down. And then they will become an impediment to the alliance, or at best a disinterested member in name only.
Turkey probably would not be admitted as a member if they were applying today. It's closer to an Islamic state now than the secular, Western-looking country it was when it joined. But Turkey has been a member in good standing for 70 years. Unless they do something traitorous to the alliance it would be stupid and shortsighted to threaten them with expulsion.
but as international relations go, it's one hell of a 'troll'. If NATO can survive the French, what damage can Sweden do? Finland? LONG border with Russia so that's gotta sting.
As for the Turks, they can't enjoy watching what Russia is doing in Ukraine. WAY to close to home.
I would prefer them to wait until passions have cooled.
and so the smart thing to do is slow-walk their applications and don't listen to the 'no nuclear weapons on our soil' objections.
This only applies to five non-nuclear member countries, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, and Turkey anyway and they ask for them!
The point is to have an alliance. Putin would like to have an alliance, but no one will stand with him except craven Belarus and maybe Hungary.
Remember the days when think tanks produced intellectually challenging arguments on the objectives and means of geopolitical decision making.
No, me neither! Reminds me of old bird and turtles all the way down, not turtles, but something all the way down.
That is its strongest bargaining chip. It helped the Ukraine by not letting the russian ships into the sea.
OTOH, it knows what it wants and it will try to get it - the F35's. It is seeing the opportunity in that regard.
Indeed, the entire Eastern Mediterranean.
There's no virtue in being old,
it just takes a long time
I had no idea Rand Paul was a missionary.
BTW, your new kitten is way cute.
Googling geopolitical map Eastern Med, the TikTuk (whatever that is) map was the clearest, and...
Little Idaho really is
There's no virtue in being old,
it just takes a long time
Nah, I was just funin you a little.
Idaho looks like a real sweetie.
x
Back for a bit again. Ignore me if you like.
at least in part regarding the PKK. Turkey is leveraging, and if I were in their shoes I probably would too.
I would expect promises of curbing (but not eliminating) PKK activities, in exchange for membership. If the PKK were more than important than Turkey, Turkey would have been thrown over long ago; but the reality is that the PKK is only, shall we say, only a 'tolerated token'. Besides, PKK still has non-NATO Switzerland and France to operate in.
Back for a bit again. Ignore me if you like.
You are beginning to sound like Dave with his "Hope Russia nukes Germany and France' nonsense.
Turkey will come around. Turkey has MORE nukes (50?) on it's land (Incirlik Air Base) than any other NATO country and is closer to Russia.
Remember the Cuban missile crises where we agreed to remove nukes from Turkey if the Soviets removed the nukes from Cuba?
We didn't.
Turkey will come around and approve Sweden and Finland.
And we should slow-walk their admittance as Russia sees not risk from either country so their entry is mostly for show.
And we can trust Recep Tayyip, right? He'll do the right thing? Anything to base that on?
They do what is in their best interest.
OK, maybe not Putin and maybe not the guy we just got rid of here, but most.
Staying in NATO is in Turkey's best interest. Maybe now more than ever.
...until the Ukraine-Russia conflict is resolved. Ukraine was denied NATO membership in 2008. Theirs should be up for consideration in maybe 2035 or so, or just dismissed, like Ukraine. Fair is fair?
"So I talk to the night, I head for the light, try and hold it on the road. Thank God for the man who put
the white lines on the highway"--a very dear friend for decades Michael Stanley (Gee)--RIP
they don't want nukes, the don't want permanent NATO bases and they balk at returning 'possible'
terrorists.
Turkey will sell their approval for a price.
How 'bout 'toe the line' Sweden?
Chris
Why?
Most of the nukes in NATO countries are outdated tactical nukes of little strategic value but...
At least in the case of Turkey, they are close to Russia if no longer on the border as was the case during the Soviet years when we had nukes all over the place.
Only one of the two countries that might justify having NATO nukes on their land is Finland as they directly border Russia.
But even then...
But that really is unimportant, because we now have at least two boomers with tactical warheads Tridents on them.
beggars can't be choosers.
Chris
Sweden and Finland don't need much help from NATO. Ask any Russian who fought against Finland in the 'Winter War' (if any are still alive). And Sweden is to far away to be of any interest to Russia, unlike the Baltic states, plus has a pretty respectable air force and army of their own.
We, OTOH, would love to further isolate Russia and what better way than expanding NATO?
Somebody needs to tell them, right?
I don't really care one way or another, apart from banging out a few sentences on an obscure internet HiFi forum.
Chris
Do you really not know that NATO has no requirement for members to have nuclear weapons in their country? Outside of NATO command headquarters what country has a military base designated as a NATO base?
Europe, as currently constituted, is emasculated.
Who's to to say that Swedish based nukes won't be needed in the future?
Chris
30 countries currently in NATO. I think NATO countries have displayed enough resolve so that Putin ain't gonna attack a NATO country, but I'm guessing you think they shoulda put troops in Ukraine to deter Putin before he attacked. To be honest, I'm not sure if I agree or not. I'm still pondering that.
and short of him employing nukes, he can't even take the Ukrainian capitol.
You scrotum waxers crack me up.
Chris
nt
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