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I'm looking to put footers on my maple amp platforms. Pierre Sprey thinks brass works best. What say the experts in the iso ward?
I've already tried aluminum and BDR cones and am not a fan of either.
The Audio Beat
Use the maple shade system - perhaps Pierre will send you a reviewers set. Complient footers to my ears do exactly what Pierre says they will-trap the vibes inside the component (mushy sound). Try it and write a review.
Ironically footers and cones and such do little to prevent seismic/structureborne vibrations from getting up into the component in the first place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. :-)
I've used inner tubes, seismic sinks, complient footers, string suspension and so on. None came close to the Mapleshade system. Another point-if we have an object floating on an pneumatic or other suspension device, will that object still be influenced by Airborne vibrations? Yes it will. So it seems to me an ideal isolation system has to deal with both structural and airborne vibrations. There's a whole lota shaking going on when we play music.
Airborne vibration is easy to deal with by damping. It's the low frequency structureborne stuff, the stuff that excites tonearms, cartridges and laser assemblies around 10 Hz that's the real difficulty. Airborne frequencies don't go that low.
Pretty sure discussions of footers should probably best be posted over on Tweakers Asylum given that footers, cones, Sorbothane, rubber, steel, ceramics, cans of Spam, etc. are not really controversial in the sense this forum was originally established for and as specified in the Isolation Ward Mission Statement. So can we please get back to the business of Intelligent Chips, Moprohic Message Labels, Red X Pens, Purple Pens, and those cute little teeny bowl resonators and leave topics like footers and hum in cables to the conventional DIY crowd.
Have a nice day.
garylkoh, founding member of the what's best forum, CEO and Chief Designer of Genesis Advanced Technologies says that the EAR C-1002 viscoelastic damping material is incredible. There is IMHO no comparison between this stuff and the rubber cork rubber that I have experienced. Be aware that the EAR can and likely will stain almost anything it is put on. I use a layer of plastic wrap on something that I don't want stained. When I listened to the rubber cork rubber footers that came with my amp I thought they sounded like woodpecker puke. EAR RULES. Ask Michael Percy what he thinks. He Who Must Not Be Named, of course, doesn't like it. Tweaker
How exactly do you use the EAR damping material? Line the underside of component covers for example? I have found that simply removing a component cover helps.
The Audio Beat
You can get say 1/4" thick C-1002 from Percy or , since you are in the business maybe a sample from EAR although I am pretty sure they don't give out samples any more, and cut it to make feet to go under say the maple. Thicker is better IMO. You could build up to 1" by stacking the 1/4". Maybe someone you know has some you can try. I use it in a tripod configuration, 4 if better stability is needed. It will stain things so use a barrier where needed. Far better than sorbothane according to Gary Koh at Genisis and I agree. Tweaker
...those maple platforms are siting on carpet right now between my speakers which Pierre says is a bad thing. So I first need to spike them to the floor or????? My equipment rack is on the side wall but no room for mono tube amps.
The Audio Beat
You don't have to spike them. Don't know what would be best but you could use brass or EAR in a tripod on the rug if it is stable enough. You could lay down a board of yellow poplar and put the maple on top of it with small brass acorn cap nuts or EAR Isodamp between the two boards if it would look ok and be stable. I have speakers on brass cap nuts on 3/4" yellow poplar then EAR, than another YP board than EAR then the floor. Tweaker
The price of brass ingot is $1.80 and the aprox. price of 3in. round bar from Sequoia metals is about $6.57lb. This is down from over $9 if I remember correctly. One foot of 3" rod is 26lbs. See what we're up against? If one could find some surplus pieces of like 2.25 or 2.5" at a good price that might be worth it. Pierre , in this case, didn't go through all that work for nothing. Tweaker
My nephew would order the brass through the shop he works for and that would be my cost. But you're right I should try a few small footers first.
I also need new tubes for my Novacron amps. I wish he could make those, too. Cheapest price I found was $59 each and I need 8.
Now back to the GOP convention. I may have to move to New Zealand come November.
The Audio Beat
thingies that have been posted about in the past six months, or so.
They seem to be quite similar to those sold by Mapleshade, and from what I've read they cost less than a buck each.
If the weight ratings jive (they have various versions) with your "quite" heavy amps I'd start with two near the corners of the board supporting the transformer(s) side of the amp and then a single one placed center/edge wise on the lighter side of the amp.
Just place your amps on the boards using their original footers (the ones that I assume the amps were voiced with) and give it a go.
Not a cone fan, though I do use a single Mapleshade brass cone as a record weight on my Thorens deck (it's affixed upside down to a Thorens 45/single adaptor) and it sounds super in this application.
Yes, I heard about the isoblock lookalike thingies. Where do I get them for a buck? I suppose I can try to find the thread.
The Audio Beat
Look to the right of the page for the cork version.
I've also seen thicker ones in the past, but didn't look through the site.
I try not to place gear too close to the floor because of dust & also static electricity (if synthetic fiber carpet and/or rugs are involved).
If you have six of the old metal cones left try them as well.
Never experimented with gear in the 50-60 lb range, so don't know what to expect with either type of (soft/hard) footers.
OT (or maybe not;-)
Didn't find it on Google, but in the late 60's there was an "astral wash" theory going around.
The jist of it was that it was healthier to sleep a minimum of 12" above the floor (thin mattresses of the time placed directly on a floor were considered to be a health hazard).
The reason being that cosmic particles (bombarding everything) bounced/reflected back off of surfaces (a denser surface = more bounce back) and this bounce back (of cosmic particles) was disruptive in nature.
Perhaps Geoff can add more light as to how this might be crucial to the well being of your mono block amplifiers.
A friend of mine says he will split the cost on a box of those anti vibration pads AND my nephew says no problem on the brass footers. He thinks there's enough scrap brass to make 2 sets for free. I'm a happy camper. Thanks to all for the feedback.
The Audio Beat
I made the mistake (many years ago) of placing brass cones directly coupled to an Audion SET amp and they acted like little "Hot Plates" supporting the unit.
They drained the heat, but they also stored/maintained the heat (feeding it back into the bottom plate of the amp).
I'm not stupid, but my decision to do this @ the time was most certainly a dumb one.
I'd like to chalk it up to a med I was taking (depikote, or something like that), but that would be the easy out as my actions were clearly clueless.
You punish yourself your way and I'll punish myself my way. I am not quit as self flagellating as you, I can see. Guess what, no woodpeckers in NZ. Those are some amps. You got more guts than me. Boy (girl) does that guy pay close attention to what he is doing. Bet they are fab. Tweaker
While there may not be woodpeckers in NZ, I'm told they have "hidden people" living in the rocks. How cool is that?
The Audio Beat
Sue, What is not cool, of course IMHO, is even thinking about putting those stupid rubber cork rubber feet under one of the most expensive, well thought out, well reviewed , expensive amps in the known universe, personally chosen by you, someone with vast exposure to equipment, when there is EAR C-1002, considered "incredible" by the designer at Genisis, a winner of a best speaker of the year award. T
Is the EAR-1002 similar to Dynamat? (Couldn't think of the name the other day.) Dynamat has foil on one side and some sort of sticky goo on the other. I'm asking because Amazon carries Dynamat.
The Audio Beat
Michael Percy has small amounts of EAR. It might be interesting if you read the technical info EAR has on their C-1000 product. Percy says it's excellent, Genisis's CEO, winner of a best speaker of the year award says it's incredible , I love it and The One Who Must Not Be Named doesn't like it. I rest my case. Dynamat is also viscoelastic. The proof is in the pudding. T
The logical approach would be to first determine how basic compliant and noncompliant type footers sound in the particular application (using @ hand or inexpensive materials) and then go from there.
What is your first hand experience with 50-60 lb tube amps to be so opinionated?
Something else to consider Sue is viscoelastic EAR Isodamp 1002. This is made for vibration control. They have a graph of it's performance. Much better than cork and rubber, IMHO. My paradigm is brass , wood and EAR. Michael Percy likely carries it. I'm sure He Who Must Not Be Named will weigh in on this again. Maybe get some woodpecker repellant to protect your maple? Since I am in a sort of forced retirement situation I am selling audio grade woodpecker repellant I have developed for just this situation, $89.95 for one pint. I call it Evidence WR. I'll sample it out to you for a free review if you like. Tweaker
Would that be audiophile grade woodpecker repellent?
I'm familiar with products like isodamp but mostly for automotive applications. I'm going to check with my nephew who works at metal shop to see if he can make some heavy duty brass footers. He usually only charges for materials and has done some nice work in the past. Maybe he could make a few extra for you but no promises. I know what it's like to be broke :-)
The Audio Beat
I have move the subject of EAR C-1004 vs rubber and cork over to the Tweakers's asylum .
That project has been on my list for awhile. The price of brass is way down but the premium for rod is very high so I never did it. I'm not exactly broke but if done "right" for every component it could go over
$500 before machining. If you are to go to that kind of trouble I would try to use between 2 and 3 in. dia. brass rod, cut with a fine chop saw and use the smallest brass acorn nut as points. This would mean three threaded holes on one side and one threaded hole on the other so as to attach the small acorn nuts. I think you will find brass rod, especially very wide stuff is very hard to come by unless bought at a very expensive price. Try some 5/8 in. solid brass acorn nuts first to see if you like it. I also have been doing some research and it turns out that woodpeckers don't like brass very much. A good sign. Thanks for thinking of me. Tweaker
Brass, BDR, all manner of those soft rubbery things, steel, aluminum all pale in comparison to NASA grade ceramics. But, cones are SO 1980's! And all of that is moot since real isolation devices take precedence over any cone or footer. Ever since Vibraplane 20 years ago. Mass on spring or mag lev, whatever. My new iso stand mimics the head of a woodpecker, able to withstand 1200 negative g's at the rate of 20 pecks per second. Now, don't get me wrong the component and the stand must be interfaced to the top plate of the iso stand and the floor so cones still have a place.
I agree. I'm done, well done. I love brass. Even small brass acorn cap nuts under equipment blew away the carbon fiber Diamond racing cones which I think won something like product of the year back in the day. When I first heard the Diamond cones my jaw dropped. You can try solid brass cap nuts, not plated, before the Mapleshade if you are so inclined. No doubt that bigger brass footers sound better. It is likely that the design of the Mapleshade footers is excellent with the small points and heavy weight. Not tapered so you get the benefit of the increased mass. Don't agree with Pierre on everything but he , from my experience so far got the brass thing right. Wish I had the dough for his highest end brass footers. Tweaker
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