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In Reply to: RE: particularly difficult for you posted by hifidave2006@yahoo.com on October 29, 2008 at 09:04:02
It's a fair point. If you consider an unusually wide variety of things can positively affect the sound, then it must be a problem that an equally wide variety of things could negatively affect it. I hadn't thought of this before but once you consider it, the situation Geoff finds himself in is very difficult. You can't just check the usual suspects (components, cables, connections, burn-in, dirty power), you have to think about all kinds of other things. If a certain kind of stone (Geoff's pebbles) can have a positive effect in a certain spot, maybe they or another kind of stone can have a negative effect in a different location - maybe that pebble he picked up on the beach and put on the mantlepiece is to blame...Without taking sides on the plausibility of these tweaks, this is a serious problem for someone who takes them seriously and does find they have an effect.
Edits: 10/29/08Follow Ups:
Anything else is another hobby altogether. ;-)
Good point, but don't pay too much attention too me, I'm just a Troll.
Welcome
Hey thanks! Nice to be here. I must do something to pass the time, even if it's a complete waste of it.
Preternatural, relatively speaking. You'd be SURPRISED by which products have put it over the hump.
I have no doubt that the system sounds great. I too am going to hear something great soon. I will be going to the local symphony orchestra this weekend.
One thing I have discovered over the years is, while at home listing to music I can close my eyes and make myself think that I am listening a live performance, but never can I be at a live performance and make myself believe that I am listening to my system, or anyone else system.
Enjoy the music listening, that's what it's all about in the end.
I'd encourage you to push the envelope because there TRULY is a world out there that few people know about. Eureka! A lot of it anyway.
"There TRULY is a world out there that few people know about"
You mean fewer than hi-end audio? My friends already think I'm strange. If I start bringing foil & rocks home they are going to put me in an isolation ward. :)
just pop a photo in the fridge. They won't see it there. Did you know about that one?Since this thread has gone awol anyway, may I just say how excited I am by having read the post below this morning, then gone out at lunchtime to a nearby charity shop to see if there was any Klemperer and found the Columbia 33CX Beethoven symphonies (1,3,4,6,7,and 8) all in NM condition at four to the pound (about 37c US each)! They're in a bag under my desk right now! Banzai!
Edits: 10/29/08
I know about putting CDs and cables in the fridge/freezer,what's this about a photo?
...is my advice. Of course there's a few things you can't hide, but what the hay, at 51 most people aren't all that concerned, or social for that matter? ;-)
I've got a lot of crystal glassware type stuff strewn about my living/listening room including one piece prominently in view out near the center of the room on cones and ceramic tiles and things you've probably never even heard about. I asked a former coworker that had come over for a visit; What do you think of my crystal collection? She was cool saying graciously; I've never seen it displayed out in the middle of the room like that.
Most people don't really care all that much, but it's not their system anyway so blah! to them. Things are a little tight right now to be spending money on experiments. I have two nice pieces on Audiogon at a reasonable price but only get really low-ball offers or nothing at all. People are not not spending money on this stuff lately. I'm going to hang low for now till this passes & just enjoy my systems as is.
Song lyrics | Shout lyrics
I understand, and I appreciate your advice, who knows I could be totally wrong in thinking these tweaks do nothing. It would not be the first time.
It's been my experience that MANY of the things people choose to pooh pah are in REALITY the things that put a system over the top. If a person takes things slowly and deliberately I believe very strongly that we can, in fact, trust our ears. I can also see where one man's success can be another man's failure. I'm willing to bet money that things I've found ineffective in the past would do better at a different point in a system's development. Important disclaimer: I'm a bit of a Pollyanna at times. ;-)I can tell you two things for sure however, my experience contradicts the beliefs, and sometimes experiences of, a lot of people for one AND everything builds on the foundation you've laid for another. There's a concept called 'last tweak syndrome' which states that the last tweak usually seems like the most effective simply because it ALSO showcases the effect of previous efforts. I can give you all kinds of practical advice on how to proceed if you ever care to ask. I'd be sure to lure you in gently. ;-)
Edits: 10/29/08
"It's been my experience that MANY of the things people choose to pooh pah are in REALITY the things that put a system over the top"
I agree. In my own experience, when I was younger, I laughed at tube amps (I was a big Klipsch fan, go figure) until I brought one home and it beat the hell out of my Krell. I could not believe this old tube amp (Dynaco ST-70) sounded better than my Krell. Then I got on this "all tube equipment is better than all SS equipment" kick. Well that was a mistake too. As was my decision to only buy Klipsch speakers at the time. Well years later later and a crap ton of equipment later I have been trying to keep a more open mind on things. I still need a lot of work on that as you can see :)
"There's a concept called 'last tweak syndrome' which states that the last tweak usually seems like the most effective simply because it ALSO showcases the effect of previous efforts"
That's a great concept, never thought of it that way.
I'm open to suggestions as long as they don't cost me a bunch of $$
The only real tweak I have done is mount my turntable to the exterior wall of the house. Funny thing is, it cost me about $15 and it was the best thing I have done to my system.
Funny: I had a Linn Axis on my system for some time, then got a fully loaded LP12, (I did the wall mount a while after having the LP12) it sound better, but never as good as I expected it to. I bet if I would have done the wall mount while I had the Axis in my system I would have noticed a better improvement when switching over to the LP12. This goes back to your point about the "last teak syndrome".
They're much more expensive to maintain than the little ones ever were.
As you've already discovered, component isolation is key. I use products from Herbies Audio Lab, Golden Sound, and Machina Dynamica to attend to those needs. If you wish to trip the tweak fantastic on a smallish budget I'd start with a sheet of Herbies dBNeutralizer. A 6"X8"X3/8" sheet will set you back roughly $40 dollars. 3 little 1/4" squares are enough isolate some smaller items effectively. If you do digital, Machina Dynamica Codename Turquoise is a hugely effective tweak on the cheap for optimizing playback of optical discs. I could go on...
Kids are expensive, I should know....my poor dad, he bought me my first Krell, I still have it.
If Isolation is key, Do I need to get a better rack? If I don't have isolation done properly in the first place will these tweaks even make a difference? I have all of my equipment on a $300 3 shelf wooden rack, it sits off to the left of my speakers, with 3m RCA cables going to my Amp that sits between the speakers.
I do have a CD player, I'm not just a vinyl person.
I really believe isolation is one of the foundational, and therefore one of the best, places to start one's optimization process. Steve (Herbie) can give you a LOT of valuable advice on the topic. I wouldn't be without Machina Dynamica's Promethean isolation bases either. I have my amps and power conditioner on those while my preamp and source components are on a Sound Anchors rack with Herbies and Golden Sound component interfaces which are relatively elaborate compared to the average bear. dBNeutralizer/Ikea beech cutting board shelf/dBNeutralizer/DH Square/DH Cone or Herbies Tenderfoot footer/component. Because dBNeutralizer is relatively new it could be that my wild success with the material is attributable to last tweak syndrome. The stuff simply seems to be magic nearly everywhere it's utilized.
Do you think some of these products are better than mounting the equipment to the exterior wall of the house? Like I said, when I did this with my turntable it made a big difference.
But as you would expect, my experience, like that of EVERYONE else, is incomplete. Herbies has some new footers called the dBNeutralizer(t.m.) Tenderfoot that I would expect to be out of this world good in SOME applications. The Iso-Cup footers with Lampblack balls are exceptional value too in my opinion. NOTHING seems to be universal, except perhaps dBNeutralizer, I've yet to see it muck ANYTHING up. In my view, DH Cones are a vital part of one's tweaking arsenal as well. My results, using various combinations of Herbies isolation products, Golden Sound (DH Cones & Squares) and Machina Dynamica Promethean Base isolation stands, have been so successful that I'm not likely to bother looking elsewhere. After all, there are only so many hours in a day for one thing.
I will look into these dBNeutralizer's. If and when I sell my stuff on audiogon I may pick up 4 of these feet. Where do you recommend I put the first, pre-amp, cd player, phono stage or amp?
A buddy of mine has his equipment in a completely different room from where his speakers are, he has one of the best systems I have ever heard. But, from what I gather reading your posts you are saying, isolating the equipment from the speakers is good but you need to isolate them from other things in the environment as well?
Do you think it's better to have long RCA cables or long speaker cables? The reason I ask is, I could put my equipment in another room if I needed, but it would require some really long cables, say like 35 feet or so.
Thank You
The answer to your question about cable length is—I don't know for sure. I'm familiar with the various theories. In my case I've followed my electronics manufacturers recommendation of running long interconnects and short speaker cables as that is best with the design specs of their equipment. That particular mfg is VERY high on locating electronics in another room if possible.
My internet here is very slow, 128kbs, Ill need to check that video out when I get home where I get 8mbs. Got to love youtube, I have been reliving my childhood through youtube lately lol. I have also been watching some great music videos on there. Some great Thelonious Monk videos uploaded on the tube!
It can be simply mesmerizing at times.
No, I did not know about that site, thanks for giving me the tip! I'll check it out when I get home. I love good web site suggestions. Hopefully youtube will get better quality videos soon. It's hard viewing them on a 1680x1050 display.
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