Isolation Ward

• Awww shucks, tweren't nuthin'.... No, really. - Posy Rorer 21:40:45 07/26/07 (4)
  In Reply to: RE: Wow. That was quite a string of insults! A+ for effort! posted by Enophile on July 26, 2007 at 14:53:34

  Thanks but, I don't think I deserve the A+. It was pretty weak by my standards, I wasn't really putting my heart into it. Plus this is AA don't forget, and there are more secret police watching you than old mother Russia.
  
  
  > > Hi, Posy. < <
  
  Hi, Eno.
  
  
  > > I like rlw, and can understand the bar he uses for tweaks.
  
  You mean the long lead pipe he uses to bash them with? Maybe if I painted a GSIC chip on his forehead....
  
  > > He very understandably wants people to keep in mind things like "placebo effect" or "power of suggestion" when discussing audio tweaks. Asking us about whether or not we are fooling ourselves is an important mission. < <
  
  Important mission? Give me a break! Don't get me started... For one thing, it's a blatant waste of time for all involved, and an extremely patronizing attitude -at best-. RLW, like all other boring trolls of his backward mentality, do this just to be annoying. And they -know- they're being annoying, that's what they want to be. It's not up to any pseudo-objectivist troll to decide whether someone is fooling themselves or not, and there isn't a soul here who doesn't know damn well what a placebo is and how that works. They are not posting on Isolation Ward because they need some deceitful, disruptive troll with his big clowny head up his ass, who doesn't have the first clue about the tweaks he's trolling you over, to tell them they might be fooling themselves. All this does is create flame wars and divide the community. You can see this on Iso in the posts of rlw, bjh, SF Tech, powermatic, porky pig jr. etc. It's not a "service to the community" these anti-progress aholes are offering us on Iso Ward, and it's not up to anyone else to tell someone what they should spend their time or money on, in contradiction of what they say they might wish to spend their time or money on. That's just being antagonistic, and it NEVER does anything to further audio progress.
  
  Finally, for those dingoheads who believe everything in audio sounds the same and everyone who believes otherwise is fooling themselves, guess what? People also have the right to fool themselves. And that's why I support the right of such self-deluded fools to believe that everything sounds the same. I wish them and their boring audio systems long prosperous lives together.
  
  > > He gets criticized for being eternally skeptical, but then those he criticizes claim infallability - who wouldn't be a bit skeptical? < <
  
  And this helps audio progress HOW exactly?
  
  Tweaker (posting on a "hard-core tweakers" forum, after his type have been rejected from all OTHER audio forums, including the Tweak Forum, for bothering the skeptics): I heard this thing improve my sound today.
  
  Skeptic (trolling the hard core tweaker's forum): No you didn't.
  
  Tweaker: Yes I did!
  
  Skeptic: No you didn't!
  
  Tweaker: Yes I did!!
  
  Skeptic: No you didn't!!
  
  Tweaker: Yes I did!!!
  
  Skeptic: No you didn't!!!!
  
  Tweaker: Yes I did!!!!!
  
  Skeptic: No you didn't!!!!!
  
  Tweaker: STFU!!
  
  Skeptic: YOU STFU!!
  
  Tweaker: No, YOU STFU!!
  
  Skeptic: No, YOU STFU!!!
  
  ad nauseum....
  
  
  So exactly when are these "people" going to decide they're too old for this childish shit? When their arthritis can no longer argue this same tired old subjectivist/objectivist crap for decades over, and their eyes are too far gone to see the screen?
  
  If rlw or other tweak-bashing trolls don't wish to believe me then fine, don't believe me. But STFU already, with your autosuggestion mantra. You're not gonna save my soul in the name of pseudoscience with your tired old arguments, you're just gonna make an ass out of yourself and an enemy out of me.
  
  Anyways, my problem with rlw (so far), isn't his bible-thumping tweak-bashing preaching, it's his lying and deceit about tweak tests he never performed, only claiming he did to bash them, their adherents and their manufacturer. I've seen enough lying, tweak-bashing trolls like him in 20 years of dealing with pseudo-objectivist anti-audiophiles, to know when I'm seeing another one. And when rlw says "End of discussion", you know the troll is just getting warmed up....
  
  > > He's also probably been around long enough to put two and two together when certain "experts" or "marketeers" pop in with self-serving scams. < <
  
  
  Oh please... GMAB Pt. 2. I've never seen a "self-serving scam" from any expert or manufacturer on AA. The "self-serving scam" is coming from rlw, and other pseudo-objectivist bible thumpers of his ilk. Whether or not rlw is making money off his agenda doesn't mean his preaching isn't a self-serving scam. He's just like Jehova's Witnesses who rap on your door and suck up your time. They may not ask for money outright, but they're serving their ideological needs, in opposition to yours. It's a power struggle, at the very heart of it.
  
  Typical of idiots like rlw, is that his whole belief system is something he entirely pulled out of his arse. It's all bad theory, that's all they ever spew at us. Whenever I question these fools, I inevitably end up finding out that they don't even have a fraction of the experience doing critical listening tests on tweaks that I do, and 9 times out of 10, don't even have a second of experience with the tweak's they're bashing. So they just don't get it and never will. In order to get to a point where you can understand whether something you heard might be an illusion or something you can have good confidence as a positive ID, you need -years- of experience doing a great many such critical tests listening to all kinds of audio phenomenon. It isn't arguing silly ideologies on audio forums that's going to get you there. But build up the skill to do that, and I guarantee you, placebo's will no longer be the big worry they are for those who only theorize about audio. While they might be something to be aware of, you will scoff at those who can't stop preaching about it after 35 years of experience in audio, even though they are still now where you were 25 years ago.
  
  
  > > I hope he keeps up the skeptical point of view as part of the discussion. < <
  
  I hope the troll keeps it on another forum. Otherwise, I'm gonna do my part and kick his can, wherever I see fit.
  
  
  > > I am even progressing through some cream trials this week because of you. < <
  
  Good. What kind, hand lotion or CE? Remember that less is more, but where you apply this stuff is important. CD logo's are a good place to start, even on passive (non-playing) CD's.
  
  > > I admit to not being sure if you are for real, to tell the truth. If someone were to partake of this debate as a piece of performance art, I could see you as being capable of that. I know that won't sound right to you, I don't really have precise enough language to describe that feeling I get from your posts. I like your way of posting, but it seems so implaccable that it makes me wonder. Is that fair? Again, I mean no disparagement. < <
  
  Sorry, I'm not following you. I only understood what you said about me being 'real', and indeed, a lot of people have accused me of being all kinds of things (and people), and questioned my motives in every possible way. But those who know me know that I'm quite sincere in the beliefs I espouse, and have no ulterior motives above that of any other audiophile on these forums: they include sharing ideas, beliefs and a desire to help audio progress. I don't speak for anyone but myself, when I do. I have a particular interest in audio tweaks, because I think that's where it's at today. You can do more with tweaks than you can with components.
  
  > > Since many of the main proponents of some of these tweaks have fiscal or social incentives to obfuscate on the impact of certain tweaks, it has probably made me overly suspicious of others, even when they don't seem to have obvious motives. I apologize if my cynicism about certain others kept me from being as open to some of your points as I might have been. < <
  
  Your cynicism is understandable, but you have to also understand that -everyone- has something to sell on these forums. Since no one is allowed to sell product, -all- are selling ideas. Some are selling Newtonian ideas, some are selling Beltist ideas, some are selling Maxwellian ideas, some are selling Johnstonian ideas, some are selling Clarkian ideas, some are selling ideas they scraped up off a package of corned hash. All would like you to believe them.
  
  If you "buy" what the cynics try to sell you, then it's a sure-fire guarantee you will not advance in your understanding of audio, and your system will not advance either. Because in their anti-progress rants, they're saying "Don't try it, and if you do, don't believe what your own two ears told you! Instead, believe us, when we tell you it can't work. We know, we wouldn't fool you!". So you if you buy their 'wares', you have no chance of moving forward, only sideways. (And if you're anything like me and you actually heard their audio systems, you would probably never listen to a damn thing they ever told you for the remainder of your life). If you buy what the proponents are selling (on the pro side of the issue), who are saying "Try it" (free or guaranteed), then you have more options available to you from that choice. Then you -may- advance in your understanding of audio and quality of sound. Or you may not. That all depends on how the trial went, and what you made of it!
  
  It doesn't matter what people's motivations here are, no matter if they are manufacturers or professionals or dealers or reviewers or just yer basic garden-variety audi-o-file. You're the one who should decide for yourself whether something is valid or not. And my argument has always been that you should do that by -listening- to it (whatever "it" is), and not just to what people say about it (good or bad). At best, people's opinions should only be guidelines. I will put a lot more stock in the opinion of someone who has actually tried the device or technique, than some loud-mouth who can think of 50 ways to tell me why it can't work, but really hasn't a clue as to what he's talking about. Even though he may convince those easily persuaded by technical aspects, that he does.
  
  The hand lotion tweak we've been discussing is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. This is something I'd never heard of before, until Zanash mentioned it, and said he had tried it, and it improved his sound. Then you get your usual trolls (or "skeptics" as you quaintly call them....), mocking the idea they never tried, simply because it doesn't fit with what they know of the world. Snapshot of them mocking Zanash:
  
  http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/1386.html
  
  So they try to discourage progress, try to discourage people from getting into it, by making fun of those that do. Since the only person that actually did try it got positive results, I listened to him, and found positive results myself (and I often reject other people's ideas for tweaks as unusable...). Plus, I (believe) I furthered progress on the tweak by identifying it's cause. Both of us (me and Zanash), did our part to progress audio. Isn't that what it's really about?? Remember that if I wanted, I can use this little tweak to produce incredible improvements in all of my audio systems. That's if all I do is multiply it by the number of CD's I have. Yet on the way to progress, I see more roadblocks. No sooner do I share my findings, when the "rlw" troll mocks me for doing so:
  
  http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/isolation/messages/1424.html
  
  Then rlw decides to pull the same stunt he pulled on the Teleportation Tweak, by pretending to test the hand lotion (like as if we should now believe this rabid tweak-bashing troll could possibly suspend his disbelief long enough to actually do that), so he can rally against it. Which he later does in his loud, brash manner (making sure he will warn the people sleeping in New Zealand), screaming out "IT DOESN'T WORK!!!"
  
  So if both Zanash (who sounded perfectly sincere in his initial post on hand creme) and rlw are both trying to sell me on their ideas, I think Zanash was a hell of a lot more credible than rlw, the screaming troll. Zanash sounded less like he was trying to sell me an idea (than rlw with his loud, insistent rant against the hand lotion idea), and more like he just wanted to share the idea, talk about it and learn about it. -That- is again, what progress in audio is about, and what these forums are supposed to be here for.
  
  > > Final note: regarding the creams. I want to have some audio buddies listen, can I have them audition blind? < <
  
  If you're asking me whether you and your buddies will hear the effects of cream (still not sure which we're talking about) under blind conditions, that's a big "maybe", or a maybe not. I can still hear such things under blind conditions, but I'm not a fan of blind tests, they can make identification of sounds significantly harder, due to the way the brain is behaving under this type of test. If someone starts with less than stellar listening skills, an effect that might be "relatively subtle" and thus not going to poke you in the eyes, and then adds the stress of a blind test, then I feel they are making things harder for themselves and might end up concluding the idea doesn't work, when under different conditions they might not. I would say try the blind test if you want to feel more confident you aren't imagining things, but try normal casual sighted test as well, to see if there's a difference.
  
  Whether you're in fact talking about hand lotion or cream electret, I believe they work under Beltist laws, as I've stated. This means, you are better to do trials where you do not use copies of discs, and just listen to the same disc first untreated, then treated (the treatment should be as I previously advised, less than a drop rubbed into the CD logo on the disc). That first precaution will eliminate variances in copies. (You -only- want to listen to the change effected by the cream, and nothing else). Second precaution, is not to compare one treated disc while another treated disc is in the house. This is because a treated disc not playing will have an effect on the sound of the disc playing. For this reason, if you want to eliminate this factor, you take any already treated CDs (other than the one being used for the test) just outside the door of your place. (If your intention is to test the effect on only one CD). However, for this same reason, you can simply treat passive CD's instead of the playing CD, and if you don't remove any of them from the listening room, then what you are testing each time you treat a (passive) CD is the effect being increased slightly, in increments (it should sound better only after odd numbers of treatments, so you can do 2 at a time, if you are planning to test multiple treatments).
  
  I hope that wasn't too confusing!
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  "silence tells me secretly, everything..."
  
  

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  • Poser, showing his reflective, thoughtful side.... - rlw 07:43:21 07/30/07 (2)
    In Reply to: RE: Awww shucks, tweren't nuthin'.... No, really. posted by Posy Rorer on July 26, 2007 at 21:40:45

    Poser posits:

    Tweaker (posting on a "hard-core tweakers" forum, after his type have been rejected from all OTHER audio forums, including the Tweak Forum, for bothering the skeptics): I heard this thing improve my sound today.

    Skeptic (trolling the hard core tweaker's forum): No you didn't.

    Tweaker: Yes I did!

    Skeptic: No you didn't!

    
    The problem with this little charade, Poser, is that's not how I see it or call it. The Tweaker can hear *whatever* he like to hear, doesn't bother me one bit. I don't try to tell them what *they* hear. I do, however, tell them what I hear - or don't hear as the case may be.

    And *that* is what causes you to go ballistic. It bothers you to no end that I do not hear what you claim I MUST hear. Sorry, dude, I calls 'em as I hears 'em. Get over it.

    
    "If rlw or other tweak-bashing trolls don't wish to believe me then fine, don't believe me. But STFU already, with your autosuggestion mantra."

    And there you have it, folks - Poser's having a fit and wants me to STFU. Not gonna happen, homes. Get over it.

    
    "You're not gonna save my soul in the name of pseudoscience with your tired old arguments, you're just gonna make an ass out of yourself and an enemy out of me."

    Pseudoscience? You're the one slinging the pseudoscience about. Jars of rocks, hand creme on CDs, strips of colored aluminum foil, and on and on. It really is *quite* amusing.

    And as for making an enemy out of you - like I care. You really wanna make this up close and personal? You already have my name - Richard L. Wainwright. Now make the giant, manly leap and show up on my doorstep (Google me, I'm there) while runnin' yer big mouth - I guarantee you won't like the outcome of that encounter, little man.

    "Anyways, my problem with rlw (so far), isn't his bible-thumping tweak-bashing preaching, it's his lying and deceit about tweak tests he never performed"

    Well, there you go again, spouting off. I simply post that I do not hear the effects of these tweaks and he has a fit. Calm down, Poser, you're gonna bust a blood vessel and then you'll die and we'll all feel real bad about it. Heh, heh.

    
    "The "self-serving scam" is coming from rlw, and other pseudo-objectivist bible thumpers of his ilk. Whether or not rlw is making money off his agenda doesn't mean his preaching isn't a self-serving scam."

    Oh yeah, I'm profiting *immensely* from these exchanges. I expect to retire sometime soon from the bucks I'm banking on this. If you promise to calm down a bit, I might even have you aboard my yacht, we'll party on the Mediterranean, dude!! No, you may not bring your jar of rocks or colored foils, I gotta draw the line *somewhere*.

    
    "Whenever I question these fools, I inevitably end up finding out that they don't even have a fraction of the experience doing critical listening tests on tweaks that I do"

    Folks, I give you Poser Roarer, the most experienced Audiophile on these here fora. And he don't cotton to others laughing about that so-called "experience", no sir.

    
    > > I hope he keeps up the skeptical point of view as part of the discussion. < <

    "I hope the troll keeps it on another forum. Otherwise, I'm gonna do my part and kick his can, wherever I see fit."

    Bring it, little man...

    -RW-
    
    

    ---

    Edits: 07/30/07
    • RLW's reflective side: "Make the giant, manly leap and show up on my doorstep while runnin' yer big mouth." - Posy Rorer 15:35:39 07/31/07 (0)
      In Reply to: RE: Poser, showing his reflective, thoughtful side.... posted by rlw on July 30, 2007 at 07:43:21

      You kill me. You can bet that it's a slow news day on AA, because I actually got around to skimming this wild rant of yours. You remind me a lot of your counterpart, Richard Bassnuts. Except now instead of claiming to be threatened, you're making threats. And when you are making threats, you are one funny little troll, you are. With you foaming at the mouth like this....
      
      "You already have my name - Richard L. Wainwright. Now make the giant, manly leap and show up on my doorstep (Google me, I'm there) while runnin' yer big mouth - I guarantee you won't like the outcome of that encounter, little man."
      
      ..... you remind me of a little barking chihuahua doggie. One who overcompensates in his barking, when confronting the bigger dogs.
      
      So then, Dick.... sounds like you don't like me "runnin' ma big mouth" about you and your phony tweak tests, and now you want me to "Google you", find out from Google where you live, take the time and effort to travel to where you live and show up on your doorstep, and then start runnin' ma big yap on your doorstep. At which point you will, quote, "guarantee that I won't like the outcome of that encounter". "Little man". Why? Please elaborate, I find this fascinating. Tell me, what are you planning on doing, exactly, if I live out your fantasy of showing up at your doorstep? If you insist I go to all that trouble to contact you, at least give me a good reason why I should. Are you planning on boring me to tears? Inviting me to look at your gay porn collection? Beg me to keep you company because you haven't been able to cope since your dog left you? Are you planning on showing me your Tupac-inspired tatoo, that says "Troll Fa Life"? Are you gonna put on a wig of dreadlocks and brown shoe polish and try to convince me you're a "gangsta from the hood"? LMAO! God, even Bassnuts had more sense than this, and wasn't as desparate to impress, as you so obviously are.
      
      Yep, yours is the stupid posturing of a small geek dog, for certain. If you really wanted me to go after you, you would have already emailed me your address, instead of playing footsies with me and publicly demanding that I "Google you", in a transparently desparate effort to show everyone how castrated you feel. But the mere fact that you think I care so much about you and your verbal diarrhea as to actually travel hundreds or thousands of miles to find you and do you in (not to mention the minor fact that I never expressed any desire whatsoever to do so), reveals more than a few little defects in your personality. One, it shows that you're an egomaniac, who overestimates his importance in the world by about 50,000%. Two, it shows that you're a frightened little doggie, who barks first and barks loudest.... because he already knows he's too impotent to actually do anything more than bark. Three, it shows the depth of how insecure a man you are.... which must be the basis for your rancor towards tweakers and their tweaks. (While you pretend to feign interest by lying about tweaks you never tested, which is pretty damn pathetic in itself).
      
      Speaking of your insecurities, I decided to humour you (slow news day, remember?), and Google your name. This may come as a shock to you since you think that the world revolves around you, but there appears to be more than one "Richard L. Wainwright" in the world. Which raised the question, which "Richard L. Wainwright" were you? Which name in Google represented the same lying, dumbass troll that tries to annoy people on audio tweak forums? Was it the "Richard L. Wainwright" who was afraid of SPIDER MITES? Was it the "Richard L. Wainwright" featured in the "Rogues Gallery"? Or are you the "Richard L. Wainwright" at the bottom of the first Google page, where it says:
      
      "Isolation Ward
      
      The troll's name is Richard L. Wainwright, and he's a cross one must bear, if one has any non-conventional insight into audio."?
      
      Something tells me that one's you. No address or phone no., but I definitely recognize it as the right self-righteous Dick Dwayneright the Third. Of course, even if you attempt to identify yourself in Google as another "Richard L. Wainwright", how do we know you're not lying, as you are wont to do?
      
      Speaking of lying btw, the word is "holmes", holmes. Not "homes". Some words are actually not spelled the way they sound. Isn't that silly? Silly but true. However, I don't think there's anything sillier than a white geek on a computer named "Richard L. Wainwright", trying to sound tough using ebonics that he picked up from teenagers on a bus, on the way to his job at the corrugated box factory.
      
      Here, I'll even help you sound "tougher" for next time, so make me proud:
      
      http://www.dolemite.com/ebonics.php?do_proc=1&look_in=B&options=word&search_term=
      
      Now respond dutifully, as I know you are eager to, and we'll see if you know any other tricks, my little doggie friend...
      
      "Richard L. Wainwright"! Geez, even the name is funny.....
      
      
      

      "silence tells me secretly, everything..."
      
      

      ---
    • SF Tech troll, have you met the Richard L. Wainwright troll? - Posy Rorer 22:00:58 07/30/07 (0)
      In Reply to: RE: Poser, showing his reflective, thoughtful side.... posted by rlw on July 30, 2007 at 07:43:21

      You two should hook up, I'm sure you have a lot in common. Well me, for one. You're both touched in the head and have quite an obsession with me. You both declared you would ignore me, and like the Posey junkies you are, neither of you can do that to save your sorry lives. Sure is funny to hear you squawk about it though. You're both pretty slow on the uptake, so I don't think either of you will have a problem understanding the other.
      
      What else? Well, you're both pencil-necked geeks that are threatened and angered by me, as well as (of course) being in denial of such things. Also, you both have irrational fears of audio concepts that you're both baffled by, a strong desire to attack anyone who advocates such concepts, and you both share a complete lack of experience in these subjects that receive so much of your collective derision. Which nonetheless doesn't stop you from pretending to know something about it, oddly enough. Plus, you both spew so MUCH BS on such a consistent basis, that between the two of you, I'm sure you junior trolls could figure out a way to solve half the world's energy problem.
      
      So I'm sure you're gonna love rlw's post here. You can see by the sheer length of his latest Posey-rant that he went to a lot of trouble to impress me. Unfortunately for him, I never read his post. But you read it, and then he'll feel acknowledged and "important" that someone is listening to him. And isn't that what all lonely little trolls like you two are always seeking? LOL!
      
      Have a nice day.
      
      

      "silence tells me secretly, everything..."
      
      

      ---
  • Posy, that is quite a manifesto you have there... - SF tech 23:32:47 07/26/07 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Awww shucks, tweren't nuthin'.... No, really. posted by Posy Rorer on July 26, 2007 at 21:40:45

    You are certainly committed to your cause... And I salute you. You have taken the *long* way around!
    
    Cheers
    
    

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