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Greetings,
I'm researching a tube set-up for my newly finished 604 project, and was wondering what amplifiers mate well with these drivers...Many have suggested SET, but regardless of the drivers efficiency, I'm a little concerned about the low powered 2A3, 300b and 45 based amplifiers that have been recommended...Although I've read that the 45 is the ultimate tube for SET, it's truly flea powered....I listen to all types of music, sometimes at "live" levels, so I don't want to be constrained...
My last/only tube amp was a Dynaco ST-70 powering my beloved, but long gone Altec 19's....I recall that it was sluggish, noisy and overall intolerable at the time, but it was also old and original...
Anyway, I have a tube (hybrid) pre-amp (Sonic Frontiers SFL-1), but I'm also open to going with an integrated...I guess I'm looking for the holy grail; the lucious midrange that an SET evidently offers, with higher power, better top end extension, and better bass control...
Any input would be most appreciated!!
Follow Ups:
My speakers are Altec Valencia 846As.
I have bypassed the passive crossover.
My turntable is the Yamaha PX-2
The Cartridge is the Dynavector Karat Diamond 17D Mk II
The Phono stage is the Simaudio Moon LP 5.3
The preamp I usually use is a modified Kenwood 700C.(I am flirting with the Lightspeed passive preamp)
My active crossover is the Behringer CX 3400.
The Treble poweramp is the Yamaha B-2.
The Bass poweramp is the Kenwood Basic M2.
I have never heard my speakers with Tubes.
The above listed system sounds excellent.
My Model Nineteens use a Denon SS HT receiver. My 890C Boleros use a Fisher 500B tube receiver. My Heathkit AS-21s (Altec 9844s in fancy boxes) use a Jolida EL 84 amp. And my 605As are bi-amped with a big-hog QSC on the bass and a Teac T-amp on the treble.
All work well.
I have used a lot of amps with my model 14's.
From high powered SS to flea SET.
IMO EL84 PP is the best sounding. I like it loud and any less power doesn't cut it.
Good luck. I hooked up a Acrosound 120 to mine last night. It should be a good weekend.
Cheers
Art Audio PX-25 (6 wpc)
Wright Sound Company WPA 3.5 (2A3 monoblocks, more than enough power to drive me out of the room)
AudioSector Patek v2 (not tubed, 50 wpc, and sounds great, too)
deHavilland IOS Stereo 845 and Aries GM 70 (lotsa juice and yummy sound)
æIf the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.
Thanks Stephæn....It's encouraging to see you're getting good results from a low powered amp.....I actually built the same system as yours, with an enormous amount of gracious and priceless assistance from Jay Fisher...
I assume the Art Audio is your favorite? Do the Wright's come close?
Perhaps I should experiment with an SET amp and see where it takes me!
Hiya,
Before I launch into the amp question, have you tried any oil-filled caps
in your crossovers? If not, you simply must. Trust me. BTW, Jay's great!
Anyway ... in short, the Wright's don't come close to the sound of the
PX-25, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. What does come close will
probably surprise you. Read on:
Recently, I was evaluating a phono stage that had been running through the
deHavilland UltraVerve and the Art Audio PX-25 or an AudioSector Patek v2.
In the midst of this evaluation, I got ambushed by the Wright Sound
Company WPA 3.5 mono block amps. I had these amps a few years back and
even though I had speakers well suited to the circumstances, they just
didn't click in my system back then. This time, things were different.
Was it the latest preamp … my new speakers … the cabling … or incredible
isolation racks ... all things I didn't have the first time 'round?
Don’t know. Can’t say. Doesn’t matter anyway.
What does matter is that those amps have forced me to rethink the notions
of purity, dynamic envelopes, and the sheer love of music. At first, I
spent a good deal of time focusing on the typical audiophile aspects of
the reproduction. Thankfully, each time I let my guard down for a moment,
I was lured in, sucked in, dragged in (as if my little finger had been
twisted), to emotional nuances conveyed that would then not let go. These
2A3 amps are not dynamic in the sense that many of us have come to know,
but they are dynamic in more meaningful ways; their vibrance is less
physical, but more virtuous, in an innocent and heartwarming way.
Even so ...
I spend more time listening to the 604s through the Patek than anything
else. You just never know what's going to work well in your system 'til
you give it whirl. When paired with the 6SN7-based UltraVerve, all is well
in the land of image density, tonal saturation and textural palp.
While the Patek doesn't deliver 100% of the tube magic of my PX-25, it
gets so close that it's creepy, especially when you consider its price,
ease of maintenance and 10-year warranty. Plus, it does a few things that
some might call better with respect to transparency (absence of an
ever-so-slight tube haze), dynamics, linearity and bass response. It's
implausibly smooth (as several visitors found after I pointed it out,
sitting behind the powered-down tube amp), melodiously resolving and is
not leaving my system anytime soon.
æIf the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.
Hi Stephæn,
Indeed, Jay is without question one of the most considerate and thoughtful folks I've never met! If was still living in Redondo Beach, I'd have had him out to dinner, but alas, I moved to Florida a while back, so logistically, it's a challenge! One day I hope to thank him in person for his contribution to my project....
I'm currently using the standard Great Plains crossover, and have considered upgrading some of the components...I have also considered the Jeff Markwart crossover...Right now, I'm getting ready to experiment with a BSC filter, as I just got the parts this evening...Martin King was very helpful in that area...I'm still amazed at the unselfishness in the DIY space!!!!!
I has been mentioned that this system works well with tube amplification, due to its high output impedance, which is why I began investigating that option....I'm amazed at the number of folks using chip amps with Altec's! I expected a list of tube amps, and perhaps a sprinkling of solid state, but not chip amps! I saw quite an offering at the CES show in '07, but dismissed them, thinking they would be even more sterile than a typical MOSFET design...
I guess I need to upgrade my caps, and try one of those amps!!! I'll be the Art Audio piece is magical, but it's out of my price range at the moment...Your description of the vitures of the Patek are right up my alley!!!!
Do you think the Patek would mate will with my Sonic Frontiers SFL-1?
Thanks a bunch for the input!!
> > Do you think the Patek would mate will with my Sonic Frontiers SFL-1?
Hard to say. I've never heard it driven with the Sonic Frontiers piece,
but I'm pretty confident it would sound good, just not as rich a tone as
you'd get with an octal based pre.
That standard crossover is pretty good, but can't hold a candle to the
smoothness you'll uncover when you go with oil-filled caps. I promise
I won't mention it to you, again. ;-)
Peter's integrated is a honey of a unit, too, and costs a bit less than the
Patek. You might want to contact him and talk about his terms. I never
asked about a 30-day trial for the Patek ... just took the plunge. No
regrets with either unit.
æIf the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.
All the boutique stuff is great, but for sheer enjoyment, it is hard to beat push-pull EL84 IME and IMNSHO.
all the best,
mrh
I'm using my own 45 amp on GPA 704s which do run out of steam on orchestral or when Emmy Lou breaks windows. Otherwise fabulous.
There's a post on Amp-Pre-amp right now about TAD 1000 EL-34 mono-blocks; could be a winner for cheap. Never heard them or of them until just now.
My 604's are biamped, Decware Zen amp on the HF and Radio Craftsmen RC-2 (PP 6V6 ~10W) monoblocks on the LF. I ran them passively for a long time, using only the Zen (2w/ch) and was quite happy with the results. 98% of the time it was enough power, but I like not having that on the brain and I think the sound is as good or better with the present setup. I have a very small room and the 10 watts is more than enough, but I could imagine in a larger room at high levels they might need a little more. I have gone through the RC-2's and thoroughly updated them as they are sixty years old now, and this made for a *major*, *major* improvement. My guess is what you are describing with the Stereo 70 may have had a lot to do with the condition.
Dave
I have been using a pair of McIntosh MC40 amps for a couple of years with my 604-8g. I recently added a CJ PV-10A preamp and think they make a great match for the 604s. Plenty of juice too if you need it.
There are a ton of great PP tube amps for that wonderful sounding speaker..Most need upgrading but the 299 scott and the w5ms and sherwood 5000s with 7189s and the knight kb85 and the mac mc240 and the eico hf81s are all super amps and there are many more.
they're all excellent. Merit, however, goes to the Citation II with Jim McShane's recommended updates (not mods, though, in my book). See lots of dicussion over in the Tubes Asylum on them.
I agree with Mike S, they will all need to be rebuilt to get the best out of any older tube amp. It is, IMHO, well worth the effort.
Cheers,
David
Oh yes David,those are fantastic also..I use those also but I dont have the 75s or the 225 yet but I sure would love a 225..Who wouldn't want to have one of the 10 best sounding amps of all time? Of course the citation 2 is on the list and I do have 3 of those.
*
I've an HH Scott 299 myself. The first model didn't have an "A" suffix. They went to the alphabetical suffixes starting with the "B" or second model. I personally think the Scott 222 and 299 amps are two of the best sounding tube amps around.
Best Regards,
TerryO
You're correct of course Terry
While not originally designated as such by Scott it's become common practice to use the "A" model designation. There are many such examples. Think of it as the Scott equivalent of the "orignal" large Advent.
http://hhscott.com/photo.htm I guess I could have put the A in ( ) as the HH Scott web site does but somehow I don't think that would have satisfied the hall monitor ..he he he
A model or not the Scott does sound wonderful does it not.
Ernie L states:
You're correct of course Terry
While not originally designated as such by Scott it's become common practice to use the "A" model designation. There are many such examples. Think of it as the Scott equivalent of the "orignal" large Advent.
http://hhscott.com/photo.htm I guess I could have put the A in ( ) as the HH Scott web site does but somehow I don't think that would have satisfied the hall monitor ..he he he
A model or not the Scott does sound wonderful does it not.
Ernie,
As a matter of fact, I "was" the reason they had hall monitors in the first place :^) (In the early 60's)
The only reason that I brought it up was in order that those who weren't aware that the "A" suffix is a matter of convience and actually was never a designation provided originally by Scott. To someone without some familiarity with Scott might be frustrated in an attempt to correlate information available on the original 299. BTW: I use the "A" suffix myself, just to provide an indication to a "specific" model of the 299 line. I believe that the 299 and incidently, the 222 are both very good amplifiers that stand on their own, even among today's offerings. Reconditioned, with or without modification, they should be on everyone's list of tube amps IMHMO (In My Hall Monitor's Opinion).
Best Regards,
TerryO "the Unmonitor"
I am with the others, I really like the Sonic amp. I've driven Edgarhorns, Altec A7, Stromberg Carlsons, and Voight pipes. I really can't say much bad about it. Cheers.
I am using a Sonic Impact Super T with my Nineteens. I was skeptical, but thought Id give one a try. Now I can't bring myself to go back to any of my tube amps. Best sound I have ever gotten from my Nineteens. Bass as good as with any solid state amp I have tried. Mids are as good as with my Quicksilver horn monos. Highs as good as with my ASL Tulip 2A3 amp. Imaging is the best I have heard. If you are skeptical too, as many are, don't believe me. Try one. They are dirt cheap. The only downside is a slight hissing noise almost like tube rush that can just barely be heard from the listening position with no music present. Any negatives you have heard or read about this amp, or genre of amps, I feel is due to poor amp/speaker synergy. BTW, I am using a Quicksilver Full Function Preamp. This preamp/amp/speaker combination really like each other and play really well together in my listening room.
I have been running a Sonic Impact amp on a pair of Lansing Iconics, ancestors of the Altec 800Hz. two way systems, with very good results. The amp will briefly glitch once in a while when things get really loud, but aside from this the combination rarely fails to impress visitors. The SI amp will certainly serve in a pinch while the rest of a system is sorted out.
is doing a trial run on my 605's. i've had it in for a couple of weeks and i also have notice a few moments of weirddome but at other times it is impressive considering the investment.
Hi Steve,
Are you using the AH700 horns on top? . . .and if so are you using the SI amps to drive both or are you biamping?
Thanks
Ian
Hi Ian,
Funny you should mention the AH! 700 horns... have we spoken about this? I have found experimentally that they outperform the Iconic eight cell horns for living room hi fi, sounding considerably more clear and open while still loading well to 800Hz. For the moment though I am running the Iconics stock, including the original dividing networks. They are built like most of the early theatre stuff, with minimal insertion loss.
Yes, if I remember it right we spoke early last year about you trying your 1940 Iconics in a stereo settup and also about how you liked the AH horns on top. I just wondered if you still felt the same way about them and also, if biamping, how. I've been playing around a bit with fly power biamping lately and here on the wall, am trying to pick up a hot tip or two from the real movers (such as your honorable self `,;^)
I'm using a pair of Super-T amps to drive my A5s at the shop. Using electronic crossovers with one channel one bass duty and the other on the mids... with either my laptop and iTunes or my iPod driving the whole mess.
eso
They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves–Henry Chinaski
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