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In Reply to: RE: "Preferences are inarguable" posted by E-Stat on March 02, 2023 at 12:45:15
Not everyone shares your preferences either. Same goes for your audio reviewer heroes. Preferences vary so no one's preferences are definitive or better than anyone else's. And I really don't care if my preferences line up with any other individual.
OTOH objective accuracy is inarguable. Unfortunately very many audiophiles and audio reviewers fail to understand the difference between objective accuracy and their own personal preferences. HP was a poster child for that failure in basic understanding.
Follow Ups:
Preferences vary so no one's preferences are definitive or better than anyone else's. And I really don't care if my preferences line up with any other individual.
Exactly my point!
OTOH objective accuracy is inarguable.
Objective accuracy? I've yet to attend any concert with single file seating!
Clearly, the two inmates who quickly sold or immediately sent back their 10Es would disagree with your assessment. ;)
Then you can lecture me about it. Your passive aggressive superiority bullshit is really transparent. I was just calling you out in it.
As for concerts in single file...-.. do you really not know the difference between stereo recording and playback and a live acoustic concert? Or is this just more of your smarmy passive aggressive bullshit? Sometimes it really is hard to tell when you are being an idiot or when you are being a dick.
In case you really don't understand the difference between a live concert and stereo playback they are in a single file line because the Sanders are highly directional speakers above the bass which is an asset as it reduces room interactions. As someone who owned Acoustats and now owns Sound Labs you should be familiar with the one person sweet spot that comes with them.
As someone who owned Acoustats and now owns Sound Labs you should be familiar with the one person sweet spot that comes with them.
That was true of the 2+2s I owned years ago but not even close with the U790s.
If you don't have a sweet spot with the Sound Labs you have them set up wrong or you are fooling yourself. Curved panels don't change that fact. I know, curved panel electrostatic speakers are all I had before getting the Sanders. My A3s are still in the living room. They have a sweet spot. It's the basic nature of stereo playback.
When you discover some of the modern day DSPs then we can talk about how the sweet spot is affected by that.
A3s were discontinued twenty years ago and are quite different than U790s.
The difference is one of magnitude. The ideal seating area with mine is not measured in millimeters. ;)
The A-3s are not discontinued. They have been "updated" over the years. Read for yourself. Link provided. "Audiophile 745 The A-3PX" Do you see the A-3 there? Same speaker essentially. Same driver dimensions, same specs, same power handling etc.
So here is a challenge to you. Instead of making yet another smarmy obnoxious passive aggressive "I'm better than you" type comment how about explaining to me and any other interested reader exactly what technology or design features makes the U 790 exempt from a sweet spot that does not exist in the A-3s?
Other than a marginal increase in bass extension what exactly are the meaningful differences between the A-3s of the past, the current A-3/Audiophile 745, the Audiophile 945, the U 745 and your U 790?
"meaningful" being the key word. Here is a hint, a change in the transformers won't change the radiation patterns of the drivers and make the sweet spot magically disappear. Neither will using steel poles instead of wood as the frames. As if steel was a better choice...
But anyway, let's see you actually talk about real issues in speaker design rather than displaying your typical smarmy passive aggressive arrogance.
I'm not holding my breath...
Roger West has been selling essentially the same basic design since the incarnation of Sound Lab. Not saying that is a bad thing but your smarmy dismissal of his A-3s is quite indicative of your attitude and lack of understanding of the speaker's design and ironic given your speakers are really not that much different.
It's kinda comforting to know that geezer-audiophile-passion continues to burn bright on AA.
I suppose so. Looks like Estat's tongue ended up stuck to the poll despite not taking my dare.
Sound Labs are very nice sounding speakers for 20th century technology. But none of them magically make the sweet spot a non issue. Not to mention they don't magically make the basic physics of bass in a room go away. There's good reason why just about every other maker of electrostatic speakers moved on to hybrid designs.
Ironically 21st century DSP technology with the Sanders 10E does fix a lot of the inherent problems with stereo playback that relate to the limits and issues of a sweet spot.
Some geezers are stuck in the 1980s and some of us are actually keeping up on cutting edge technology. It's much easier to do when you eliminate the distractions of audio bullshit like magic rocks and $40K power cords.
We have reached a point where we need rubber boots that reach up to our necks to wade through the bullshit that has taken over the high end audio industry. I would compare many of these geezer audiophiles to flat earthers but I don't want to insult the flat earthers. They at least have come up with some elaborate all be it ridiculous explanations for their bullshit. As you can see here, some of these geezer audiophiles don't even make that effort.
I think we reached the rubber boots point many years ago. Reviewers and marketing are intertwined with the manufacturers in very weird way. There is so much dishonesty and self deception that it's extremely difficult for younger folks and/or newly interested people to enter the hobby. Thus we have "geezer audiophiles" (I like that term!) providing the narrative and just making the whole situation worse.
Dave.
When you don't have the knowledge posing is the next best option. Only his hairdresser knows for sure. Oh, wait, he is the hairdresser! Scotty is our very own audiophile hater and part of the QAnon cabal. He thinks if you say something, no matter how ignorant, often enough eventually someone will believe it.Never smarten up a chump.
Edits: 03/04/23 03/04/23
..... thats brutal
Brutal perhaps...- But is it wrong? What makes audiophile rejection of an entire field of science any less dumb than flat earthers' rejection of science? The parallels are substantial. What separates them? Honest question
Nt
"I suppose so. Looks like Estat's tongue ended up stuck to the poll despite not taking my dare."
Touché!
Seriously, over the years I've found both you fellows to be good guys. And I agree with your last paragraph.
The A-3s are not discontinued.
Same driver dimensions...
Nope. Compare again. Many differences in core construction other than outward dimensions.
Live your own fantasy! I'm glad I no longer listen with head-in-a-vise. :)
When it comes to any meaningful knowledge on the speaker design you have nothing to offer. Thank you for proving my point.
Nt
maybe there's one of them tiny audiophiles seated between those two?
Also in a tee.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
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