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I have recently looked into buying new speakers. I found one dealer that carries 2 different speakers I'm Interested in. The dealer told me he would require a 500.00 deposit to listen to both sets of speakers. If I purchased a pair he would refund the 500.00. Would you pay to audition speakers?
Follow Ups:
If I am expected to pay $500 for 'studio time' then absolutely not. It's their store, their demo stock and their demonstration room, if I wasn't there potentially about to buy something, would that demonstration room be put to better use?
Worse, if this is a plan to avoid time-wasters, it also successfully manages to avoid legitimate customers. Worse squared, the 'time-waster' is still an interested party in a business that doesn't get that much interest anymore. To piss that time-waster off is to piss off all his or her friends too, and to extinguish their interest in the hobby.
That being said, I can see one or two points where this is acceptable. If the store knows its market and a customer starts demanding something that will only sell to that customer, then it might be understandable to ask for some kind of refundable-against-purchase deposit. For example. If you are a CJ dealer and all your local customers will only buy Classic preamps, someone demanding to hear The GAT will likely leave you with a $20k preamp and no prospective alternate buyers if they don't buy. If there's no other way of obtaining that preamp on loan from the company, you might need to take a deposit.
I also think home demonstrations where significant travel/shipping expenses are involved, the end user should pay for some or all of those costs. A refundable deposit for a proportion of the full cost of the product might also be acceptable as surety against theft or damage. If you can't afford the deposit, you can't afford the product.
Are they Spendors or Harbeths? Will
Harbeth and Vandersteens
Anyone can read your 18 posts and get the general idea.
And now your, "He's not a Jew."
Steve hoffmans website is run by nazi's who don't believe in people having an opinion. If you want to live in that kind of society move to Libya.
One of the members had commented that the guy was a gonif. I simply stated that he wasn't a Jew. There was nothing derogatory about that. Before you make comments know what the facts are.
'Gonif' is the word that popped into my head. I suppose I could have said 'Rip-off' and sounded like a superannuated hippie, but no ethnic aspersions were intended. Apologies to all, as needed.
You needlessly injected your sht into the equation.BTW, which dealer, troll?
You should be banned from here, imo. And I'm quite sure you will be eventually.
Edits: 03/14/11 03/14/11
A member on this site called the dealer a gonif. I just stated he wasn't a Jew. What I said is not derogatory. Before you make comments know what you are talking about first.
Unfortunately as stated below you don't even know that the word gonif refers to a jew. It is a word Jews use to refer to non Jews who are thieves
Alan
Nope.
Paul
For an in-home audition, I would pay transportation both ways, and setup fee if the dealer sets up. Which is what you can get from any internet/mail-order seller. And may be why I assembled my current system without a B&M after years of rude and condescending treatment from them.
He's not a Jew.
You don't have to be Jewish* to find that a Yiddish word or phrase can be more expressive than the English equivelent. To call this dealer 'a thief' would be technically inaccurate, since he is offering a service for a fee. But 'gonif' includes both real thievery and unjust enrichment, which is what I consider this dealer's behavior to be. *P.S. But it wouldn't hurt! Old joke from a TV ad for rye bread.
Not to get off subject but is Yiddish a language that is still spoken. I know that people use Yiddish terms all the time but I wonder If anyone still speaks it as a first language.
Gonif is a yiddesh that some Jews use to describe non Jews who are thieves and crooks.
Alan
I just looked up the word gonif. It means a person that is a crook. I figured since the member called the man a gonif he figured he was Jewish. I just wanted to state for the record that he wasn't Jewish. Nothing derogatory was meant by my statement. If I offended anyone I am truly sorry.
.
For an in-store floor demo, no. I agree with the others that mention not paying to audition cars or even homes.
If I was granted a private room and could bring my sources/amp in. Then a set up fee would be in order. The same would be true for an in-home demo.
I recognize that the proprietor is seeking to minimize time/effort per sale so I could almost rationalize in my mind a nuisance fee. Something on the order of $20+. Somewhat like a $5 entrance fee to a bar, not retiring on that income, but it likely helps.
-------------------------
dj on www.area24radio.com Show is "A-440...and Beyond"
We have 2 turntables and a microphone.
Not sure nominal fees would work for the dealer because the customer is going to feel a lot less obligated to buy from him if he has charged for his services. If the nominal charges are not covering his demonstration costs then his hardware prices will have to be high to reflect this. People are more likely to use the dealer's services and buy cheap off the internet.
Yes if:
- I had done the paperwork and was ready to buy
- the dealer stocked all the speakers on my shortlist
- the cost to hire the shops faciities was reasonable
Personally, I would prefer an upfront cost and internet prices rather than B&M prices. Judging from the other replies in this thread I suspect this approach may not but viable.
.
"This wasn't a home audition. The deposit was to listen too both sets of speakers in the store. If I bought one pair my 500.00 would be refunded."
Very soon he will have a hall with two pairs of speakers playing with an entrance fee of $500.A good business for these tough times.
Bill
...say $50 in store credit to apply to the purchase of the speakers or anything else in the store.
He told you he would refund your 5 clamps if you bought a pair , so if you don't buy a pair your out the money ? He seems like a thief , I would not return there .
.
I already did.
I should not be required to leave a cash deposit, but a credit card deposit might seem reasonable so long as a full refund was due should I decide not to buy. And, I might pay for the dealer for his time if he provided an "audition" consisting of home delivery and comprehensive setup assistance. Taking a pair of loudspeakers home for an audition is not at all like "test driving" a car from an auto dealership. The auto dealer offering free test drives would have insurance covering the events, while the brick n' mortar guy selling hifi gear might not have insurance to cover home auditions.
Edits: 03/13/11 03/13/11
This wasn't a home audition. The deposit was to listen too both sets of speakers in the store. If I bought one pair my 500.00 would be refunded.
He's out of his mind, or has SO much business he doesn't need yours. And I doubt seriously the latter.
I'd let someone put a $500 refundable deposit on my credit card to do an in-home audition for three days. But $500 for an in-store would definitely get me to do an eye to eye with the dealer to let him know he'll not see me again.
See ya. Dave
In that case, the dealer should pay ME $500.
nt
I find the offer quite reasonable and strongly suggest that you go for it.
....and I agree.......
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
I'm not in the market for expensive speakers.......... [-;
Now if I were in the market for expensive speakers, and if a dealer charged a $500 non-refundable deposit for auditioning something, I'd simply search for a different dealer who offers a more-attractive audition policy......
... I had an interstate dealer some 1800KM away send me a $8500 CD player to audition. I decided I wanted it so he ordered another one in a different colour.
I kept his demo unit until the ordered one arrived. So at the last, I had two CD players before I shipped his demo one back.
I didn’t pay for the new unit until it was already on its way to me. No deposits.
The same guy shipped me a $12,000 amp to audition. I had it a fortnight then shipped it back. On that occasion I didn’t purchase anything.
IF , and it is a big if, you know how to conduct yourself most business people will trust you.
YMMV
Smile
Sox
I doubt if many dealers, what few there are, here would do this.
Speakers also I think are different. No dealer is going to send 187 pound per side Tidal speakers for you to audition. It would be hard to even find dealers with these to demonstrate in the country.
If his dealer is willing to send the speakers with a refundable deposit, I think his is lucky.
... I don’t live in a city and the speakers available locally are nothing I am interested in.
The deal I did with my current main speakers was I paid in full for them to be shipped to me (about 1800KM & weighing in excess of 200lbs per side) and the deal was if I didn’t like them to ship them back for a full refund with me paying for freight one way. I had auditioned them in store beforehand when I was in Melbourne and liked them very much. I kept em.
From another dealer I had Paradigm 100s sent to me (from about 800km away) with the same deal. Admittedly the Paradigms are not a lot of money but the dealer was happy to oblige. I kept them and then bought another pair to make up a HT set-up.
I still think if you deal with the principle of a business and know how to conduct yourself you are likely to find people very accommodating.
I still wouldn’t pay a non-refundable $500 fee to audition speakers.
YMMV AND YCMV :o)
Smile
Sox
.
One person in this thread has touched upon the obvious question, but it does not seem to have been answered unequivocally:
Was the "deposit" for an in-store or an at-home demo? I think it makes a difference.
Of course not. Do you pay to try clothes at a store? I would also contact the two manufacturers and ask them if they approve of this practice.
I smell something.
What do you smell?
I smell something unverified, and I like to know if sensational claims ($500 to audition) have anything other than a joke or a cretin behind them.
Hope that helps.
...it was a trollish question,IMO.
.
'GO FUCK YOURSELF'.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
That's a riot!!!!
This demand is similar to to what happened when I went into an Acura dealer in Boston back in 2001 to take a look at the then - new MDX. The salesman handed me a list of all the "mandatory options" I would have to buy if I wanted the car. It was $2000 worth of ridiculously marked up (Scotchguarding the carpets for $500) or useless (spray - on undercoating, rust - proofing) crap. Then, when I asked for a test drive, the guy said I would have to put down a $1000 non - refundable deposit first. If I ordered the MDX they would apply the grand to my purchase; otherwise, they kept it. This dealer was literally across the street from where I worked so it would have been super convenient to have it serviced there, but I walked out and ordered the car from another dealer 20 miles away.
.
So Abe & mbnx01 you two honestly believe a dealer should risk allowing you borrow a pair of $25K speakers to try at your home out of the goodness of his heart, while trusting that you won't damage them ---{ accidents DO happen }--- and if you should damage them the dealer should also trust you'll be a straight up gentleman, man-up and either buy them outright damaged or else you'll pay to have them repaired?
If I was a dealer I'd want to be able to place a hold on your credit card equal to exactly 1/2 of what the agreed selling price is on any piece of audio equipment I lent out that was valued over $1000 ---{ which I presume would cover what I paid for them as a dealer, so I wouldn't be out $$$$ in case an accident did happen }--- but once the speakers ---{ or other audio components }--- were returned to me on time and in the exact same shape I lent them to you, I'd remove the hold from your credit card if you didn't want them & I'd thank you graciously for taking the time to audition them and visiting my store. In the event that you wanted the speakers I'd add the remaining balance to the previous hold amount, charge the credit card, thank you graciously for your business and ask you if I could be of any possible assistance in helping you setting the speakers up properly in your home.
My stance would be this: Since I lent you my store demo model, I risked losing potential sales for the 3, 5 or 7 days you wanted to try these $25K speakers in your home, on your audio system, in your audio room. However I believe in good customer relations and try to do what I can for my customers. That said, I am running a business and it does need to generate income and not lose $$$$ in the process. I'd even consider what I'm doing for YOU to be damn generous on my part. So "if" you as a buyer still had a issue with my policies, and felt I was unfair or screwing you over, by placing just a hold on your credit card. I'd smile, shake your hand and my response would be... 'PLEASE GO FUCK YOURSELF'.
Tom Scata (thetubeguy1954)
===========================================================
--- SETriodes Group --- Central Florida Audio Society --- Space
Coast Audio Society --- Fullrange Drivers --- Front & Back Loaded Horns
--- High Efficiency Speakers/Drivers ---
number of our brothers here have an intense dislike of the profit motive. Why, one should put all one's savings into a store that then becomes a utopia of good-feeling and good feeling.
It is so easy to be a "good time Charlie" on someone else's dime.
Ask these guys if they'd let you take THEIR system over to your place for a weekend, no deposit. And ask them if they'd transport and set it all up.
Sure.
Where do you see anything in the OP indicating the speakers he wanted to audition cost $25,000? Exactly where in the OP does it even indicate the audition was to take place out of the store? Where do you see Abe or mbnx01 saying anything that fits the fantasy you "reacted" to?
Man, talk about creating straw horses.
Over the last 50 years I have had 3 dealers. I have borrowed equipment from all of them from cables to Wilson Wall-Puppies($12000 at the time) Never paid a dime for this auditions and bought a lot of equipment from these dealers. Dealers charging for auditions at home or in the store will eventually lead to all equipment being sold on the internet. I thought I heard recently of a New York dealer charging for in store demos. They will go out of business like all the other high end dealers that could care less about there customers
Alan
Hello ahendler.Perhaps I misread the original post? sudz1234 was speaking about a person walking in off the street who's never purchased, which is verified by his comment " . I found one dealer that carries 2 different speakers I'm Interested in You noticed he didn't say the dealer I do businesss with carries 2 different speakers I'm Interested in? That's a huge difference than your scenerio, no? Would you as a businessman allow a stranger to borrow expensive speakers, with absolutely no downpayment?
However "if" the scenerio is one where the person has done real business with the dealer and they know each other fairly well ---{ as opposed to a client who's purchased a $100pr of ICs, then sits in the store 2-3x a week wanting to audition all the most expensive equipment and now wants to take a pair of expensive speakers home without a credit card hold }--- I agree with you. I'd expect to be able to take equipment home as I have in the past, without any down payments ---{ I usually took a piece over a weekend, unless I called and said I want to listen a bit longer because I believe I might want to purchase this particular audio component }--- but even then Bernie wanted to at least have my credit card info on file, just in case and that didn't bother me one iota!
Tom Scata (thetubeguy1954)
===========================================================
--- SETriodes Group --- Central Florida Audio Society --- Space
Coast Audio Society --- Fullrange Drivers --- Front & Back Loaded Horns
--- High Efficiency Speakers/Drivers ---
Edits: 03/12/11
I still have not seen the answer to the question $500 for in store or home. If I am a new customer and wants to audition speakers in store there shoul be know charge. If at home I can see leaving a credit card slip for the speakers value to be torn up on return of the speaker. I once had a car dealer let me borrow a BMW M3 with only giving him my drivers liscence number. He didn't know me at all.
Alan
...but F^#%$ no!
When's the last time you paid to test drive a car? Or view that beautiful new flat panel TV?
Pay to audition audio gear? My ass....
In fact, I would run away from this "dealer" and never ever consider doing business with him, ever!
In return for your 500 bucks, who does what now?
.
But perhaps $50. maybe use 1% of the purchase price as a goal. I'm going to assume the listening appointment would be private and attended, and would allow listening to your own source material - perhaps your own sources, too!
I would not pay for an quicky listen in the store that could be interrupted and not attended by the sales member.
Three most important things in Audio reproduction: Keep the noise levels low, the power high and the room diffuse.
For $500 they better be offering some pretty spectacular service. Foot massage.. full **** star meal delivered to store for customer.. Hot babes?
requires you to put a credit card down for full price to let you home audition. The actual audition fee is around $50 bucks, but that kinda pays for losing that item from the showroom.
territorial rights paid them for not having the item in the showroom
fight the good fight
...if you don't buy the speakers? Keep it? Of course he won't. Kind of makes the whole deposit premise seem silly. This just looks like another way high-end dealers go out of their way to alienate customers. I realize they don't want to waste time with lookie-loos. Their job is to qualify the buyer. Asking for a meaningless $500 deposit isn't a very good way to do it from a public relations standpoint. I'd tell the bozo to pound sand.
My understanding is he's going to keep it unless I purchase a pair of speakers.
The guy does not know you. so he tells you this. If you really are goingto buy one or the other, then yeah, do it. if you just want to hear them and THEN decide.. no. Listen to them in the store. Take your own music you really like and know. You can probably arrange to use your own amp and pre if you ask nice, and do it during a slow period. Ask for three hours at least. If they say no, then they really do not want to be bothered selling anything anyway. Snooty.
So ask them to allow you to bring YOUR electronics in and audition each speaker for a few hours, at a time of thier convenience (for free, obviously).. If they say no. well.
if they say yes, then you can decide if you want to try them at home and spend the $500. Also, being more motivated, and doing the in store with your stuff..and they get to know you.. they may change thier mind and let you take them home
I thought the dealer is asking $500 for an in store demo. Not a home demo. Just crazy
Alan
What a pile of bullshit. I demoed speakers twice for HOURS at my dealer and no problem. I even brought in some of my electronics the second time... (but because he knows me he was able to sit me down and leave me alone)
Especially for speakers.
For electronics, it also makes sense: if you're willing to transport YOUR speakers to the dealer and then set them up, it kind of shows you're a serious shopper.
I'd love to know the percentage of home demos to sales. From reading many posts here, and assuming it's representative, I'd say it's miniscule--- unless the dealer has serious past dealings with the customer.
If the dude looks like he would spend a few hundred thou.. that might get a dealers attention.
If i walked they would call the police to have a homeless person removed...
Lucky for me my local dealers know me.
occasionally.
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