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Here we go again;
d.b.
Follow Ups:
a
There are a couple of issues here that relate to product cloning in general, and in this I am neither attacking or defending Lexicon:
1. It is hideously expensive for a manufacturer to acquire the licenses required to build a Blu-ray player from scratch. I am not sure if the licenses can relate to a parent company or need to be re-purchased for each brand in the group, but I suspect it's the latter. These virtually preclude the possibility of a high-value, low volume manufacturer from even breaking even on a run of Blu-ray players. Given Oppo provides a platform capable of delivering all the formats you might ever need, and 'modding' a player does not require any license purchases on behalf of the modifying company, it has become the platform of choice for those who intend to heavily modify - or even simply badge engineer - a product.
2. Simply buying off-the-shelf players and sticking them in a different casing will incur not inconsiderable costs. A player retailing at $500 might cost the manufacturer $400 (in low volumes, OEM versions would likely cost $600). Add in unboxing, re-casing and repackaging the product and buying in the new cases and the product might have an out the factory door price of $500-$600, possibly more (depending on sales volume). Depending on how that company decides to sell its products (for example, does it sell direct, have a chain of local dealers or an international distributor network to attend to?) that $600 product would sell for anything between three and 10 times as much. Factor in more hands on modification and you suddenly have a product costing 20x as much as the thing it's based upon.
3. Unfortunately, companies have to do this, because we (people in general that is, not audiophiles) have a tendency to buy the 'matching' product. The inverse of this is if there's no 'matching' product, some people will not buy the products they were originally interested in. Think how many people have Onkyo Blu-ray players and Pioneer receivers... people often either have Onkyo players with Onkyo receivers or Pioneer players with Pioneer receivers.
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Editor, Hi-Fi Plus magazine, from cold, windy and wet Englandshire
All of your points are valid, but there is a big hole in this explanation. Specifically, Theta is selling their version of the Oppo for $3000 and they replaced the entire switching power supply unit with a new transformer and a complex linear regulator board. The Theta also features a new faceplate and/or chassis.
The Lexicon only has a new faceplate and/or chassis and sells for $500 more than the Theta, yet they did absolutely *nothing* to the unit to change (or hopefully improve!) its performance. That is what is so distasteful. By doing this kind of thing, they give all of high-end audio a bad name.
with the DX5. Using a stock oppo and 'snake oil' lol!!!!
click me!
He also seems obsessed with the Oppo SE's 32bit DACs and is of the mind that since they are 32bit they are infinitely better sounding than anything Ayre uses.
oh and my CX7E-MP is just a box of empty snake oil according to his expert knowledge.
I've made a few posts trying to help. Not sure if I have all my information correct. But thought I'd let you know.. might be a bit of fun to be had.
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I think the problem is that companies using the Oppo (or similar) as a good platform to develop their own product are undermined by a company that simply adds a faceplate. Both will end up costing more than the base model, but the distinction is easy to lose on a trivial level. One should be praised, the other should be heavily criticized.Without having a product (and the model it's based upon) pass through my hands, I cannot discuss its performance. But my feelings on the subject are that if you are going to use someone else's product as a base for your own device, at least justify the exercise by making some effort to improve it.
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Editor, Hi-Fi Plus magazine, from cold, windy and wet Englandshire
Edits: 01/18/10
I think it's related whether or not all or part or none of Lexicon's manufacturing is in mainland China.
Remove casing only to find another brand name or last years wire now much more costly but only a new cover pulled over old[AQ]. Sad but true. Maybe they think no one will strip it. I have to for some customers want wire in loudspeaker to be a certain brand name. Now I only use what I want mostly nordost. See this in loudspeakers too real cheap parts cabs crossovers but price has added zeros sure brand named and this means you can trust them? To much of this going on in audio today.
Isn't this the same thing that went on in the cable asylum about Mac cables?
I hope you guys go after Lexicon as strongly as you tried to destroy Mac cables. Again this rebadging of other products goes on all the time in all industries. It is proper to point this out when it happens but we don't have to be so vindictive about it.
Alan
It's sad to see this sort of thing going on inside a venerable company.
This would never have been tolerated before the Harmon group buyout.
The RT-10 was simply a rebadged Pioneer. The RT-20 was simply a re-badged Marantz.
Finally somebody had the balls to call them on this bullshit. It gives the entire high-end industry a bad name, and I'm glad that the curtain has been pulled back on this nonsense.
I see a great argument arising here. The question I asked myself is who ripped off who. Was it Lexicon or was it Oppo. Curiosity for me at least. If it did end up in court it would be interesting case which company designed the product.
...of the innards of both units. Note the large wire in the upper left connecting the green circuit board to the disc drive. It's noticeably shorter on the Lexicon unit. That proves these are two TOTALLY different players.
(nt)
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Long Live Dr.Gizmo
What a sad little forum.
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You've got to be joking.
Regards,
Geoff
nt
a
There's one born every minute.
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