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Over the last 3 years after being out of the HiFi loop for over 20. I have now put together my pinnacle system within my reach (Maybe overextending myself a little) after buying and selling and loosing and making money, after spending bonuses and tax refunds I now have about 25k+ invested in my system. I love it, it reproduces music the way I hear it in my head. But being a single Dad and living paycheck to paycheck, I'm thinking, maybe its time to get back to reality and listening to music for the sake of enjoying the music.
I feel after all my experience I can live with a good integrated amp, my Thorens 160 TT and a pr of Vandersteen 2ce or Spendor SP1/2's
I might miss the prestige of top class equipment (at least in my opinion) and some of the qualities of that equipment, but it might just be time to let it go.
Follow Ups:
Google AVI adm9.1 and the matching sub. Keep your Thorens and cd transport and get a decent phono preamp. Your into this for under $5k new and I am extremely confident that you are in the sam sonic neighborhood.
It doesn't get any simpler than this.
Look at it this way: by having a great system (which is also expensive but not that expensive compared to some other megabuck systems) you also made an investment in the musical education of your kid. He will have the chance to grow up by listening to good music through a high quality system which in the end will shape his tastes and there is a good chance that at 18 he will not be deaf from iPod overusing and won't think there is only mp3 out there.Another point is that even if you have spent 25k for the system you would probably get only half that on the used market, so there is no point in selling if there is no need.
The important thing is to know when to stop. If you like the system just as it is you can use it for years to come. The problem is not those 25k but how much you keep the system, if it's for the long run it is justified; the problems are the compulsive and endless tweaks, upgrades, sells without ever being capable to forget the gear and enjoy the music.
Edits: 05/21/09
why you feel it necessary to step down from what you currently have? Can you afford it? Does it sound good? Does it give you satisfaction? ("I now have about 25k+ invested in my system. I love it, it reproduces music the way I hear it in my head.") If the answer is yes, I would keep it. Before you make a decision to downgrade, I think it is really important to find out what is motivating your thinking. If owning your current system is in someway a psychological negative in your life, then go ahead and downgrade but first be sure to find the answer as to why it is a negative.
If for some reason you feel guilty for investing $25,000+ in a stereo system, I now absolve you of any guilt. Go and enjoy your listening. BUT don't go spending $50,000 on stereo equipment. :-))
If I had to sell my equipment for financial reasons, I would do so but I would miss the wonderful sound of my current system. Music plays an important role in our household and we would rather spend what discretionary income we have on going to concerts and building a satisfying stereo system. If I had to downgrade, I would adjust and still find enjoyment in listening to music. IMHO, even a very modest well setup system can give great musical satisfaction. I love my big rig system but also find musical enjoyment listening to MP3s on my IPod. However, I personally cannot accept the premise that downgrading to a less costly system automatically makes it possible to better listen to music. Yes, I find enjoyment listening to my IPod but it doesn't begin to compare to the enjoyment I get from the greater realism and communication of the big rig system.
I think I really became happy as an "audiophile" when I accepted that no matter how good my system, there would always be systems that were better and systems that were worse. I was then able to get off the audiophile "merry-go-round."
Over the years, I have had several modest but good systems. I never spent other than discretionary income to buy these systems. I currently have a wonderful sounding system that I assembled half at retail and half used on Audiogon. My previous systems were donated to up and coming audiophiles. The satisfaction of seeing the older equipment being used by someone who loves music is worth far more to me than the money I would have received selling the equipment. When I was first starting out, a music teacher sold me a complete system worth about $1,000 for $100 and let me pay it out $5 a month. Thus my life-long career as an audiophile was started. I have never forgotten her generosity so I try to pay it forward.
DLB
"Music is framed in silence."
I suspect you are feeling somewhat guilty at what you consider an extravagence. Don't. The money is spent for a good cause, to increase your enjoyment of music.
Your money is only wasted if you sell the gear now at a significant loss.
You might be able to enjoy a simpler, cheaper system and you might not, but why take the chance? Imagine your feelings if you sell your gear for a significant loss and then find yourself having to buy it back at a higher cost in the future.
So you spent $25k on gear, or maybe less. It is not clear from your post if you actually spent that or if that was the full retail cost of your gear. Presumably, a reference system like this will still sound good in 20 years, in which case you only spent about $100 or so a month, or $3 or $4 a day, and surely there are things you spend that kind of money for daily that you enjoy less than your stereo.
Nt
Don't go up and down. You go up. You go down. Just enjoy what you've got. My two cents.
Keep it, you won't get enough for it to compensate for what you lose. "Simplify,simplify" was written by a guy who lived alone in the woods and eventually moved back to town for all of the right reasons. Another way to look at it: to purify means to get rid of things. It is a negative concept. It is about a lack of qualities, not a presence of anything. It gives nothing in return but increased self-regard, which won't last long.
Moral: Less will soon sound not like Simplicity but more like what it is, Less. It will remind you of how good More sounded.
I sold my Martin Logan Requests and my Nuforce amps and am currently listening to a pair of ADS 1290's I picked up on Craig's list for $200 driven by a Odyssey Khartago amp I picked up used for $400. I don't expect it to be perfect but it puts a smile on my face every time I listen.
Puts a smile on your face 1 because it is good,and 2 price is meaningless in this hobby.
I would suggest that you dont sell off your equipment. I went throu the
same thing about six months ago. I just could'nt stand to listen to equipment that was inferior to what I was use to. I had been through this before, so I hung on to my good stuff for awhile. It's back in to my system know and I am happy. Now would not be a good time to sell anyway as prices for used stuff is down........
Fin, if I read your post correctly, I can sympathize since I've been spinning with similar thoughts for some time. I find I do not spend as much time listening to my system as I once did, therefore I wonder if it is reasonable to keep said system or downgrade a few notches?
I can tell you that I've heard a few Vandersteen Model 2 (various) systems sound nearly as good as it gets. Admittedly this required large rooms (adequate spacing from front and side walls) and quality tube electronics. But I believe careful set up in an average room with some less-expensive tube gear (including possibly an integrated amp) can yield real musical pleasure and a system that punches well above it's weight, as our British friends might say.
Good luck.
Growing old is hell related former youth.
Its not about financial security, its more about being realistic. (I have a secure job, savings, retirement plan) I didn't want to get into my finances, but guess as stated below My terminology of Paycheck to Paycheck might have been misinterpreted. (My paycheck covers all things including financial security)
The Post was more about getting off the Audiophile merry-go-round and not paying for a Ferrari when a Mustang will do
Jump off the audio merry-go-round. Stop buying gear. It helps if you stop reading audio mags. If you like music on your new system, then just stop.
I do understand your point. Life was much simpler when we had less money and entry level systems. You don't have to feed your audio nervosa. Just let it go.
Jack
Is your system worth $25K LIST or is that figure based on realistic USED value if you had to sell quickly?
If your job is secure, enjoy the gear. Have fun. If not, I would liquidate and hoard cash especially if you have no savings.
Although I love listening to my "high-end" system, it's just "stuff" that can be sold and replaced later if necessary. I'm not one of those audiophiles who can't enjoy music on an iPod or other modest setup.
And he wants to get back to reality and use it for enjoying music now.
"...single Dad and living paycheck to paycheck..." , etc.
"I'm thinking, maybe its time to get back to reality and listening to music for the sake of enjoying the music."I thought this was supposed to be the reason why we spent $20K+ on a stereo system in the first place.
The stuff you are thinking about is really good equipment and for the most part might satisfy your new requirements for the long term. However you can upgrade if you like, when/if you can comfortably afford it from there to more expensive gear without changing your purpose of music for the sake of enjoying the music.
You can, or at least I could (I did at one time kindof), happily downgrade based on a change of purpose. However if you upgrade well based on that same purpose, downgrades are exactly that - downgrades and a sacrifice.
At least this is true for me. Having a completely enjoyable main system I decided why upgrade when a second system was possible. So I'm working on this second system hoping to get it to the same level as the first but for less money. I'm fairly well convince it's just not going to happen - eventually, in order to get as much musical satisfaction, I'm going to have to spend just about as much on the second system as the first.
Just my 2 cents.
Edits: 05/20/09
I've got a a quite modest system compared to most around here. A pair of Spendor SP1/2Es powered by a 50 watt per channel Image Audio tube amp, all bought used. The source is a Squeezebox, though I did allow myself the luxury of an external DAC (Lavry DA-10).
However, I just love listening to music on it. Since settling on this setup I've had virtually no urge to upgrade or change anything. A main focus these days is acquiring and listening to new music. It is an amazingly freeing experience to find a system that, for me, is so inherently satisfying that it allows me to just listen to the music without that constant nagging in the back of my head that something needs to be changed. That's a pretty nice place to be.
I recently got rid of:
ARC SP-9mkIII
ARC D-300
ARC CD-2
B&W 801 Matrix 2
Luxman PD-121 with Jelco SA-750D, Orsonic AV-11 headshell and AT-OC9II cart.
Not nearly the investment of your $25K rig ..but today I am deriving far more enjoyment from:
Crown Straight Line Two
Yamaha P-2050
Marantz CD-5003
Snell E.5mkII
Technics SL-1200mkII and AT150MLX.
My thinking was the same as yours: "...maybe its time to get back to reality and listening to music for the sake of enjoying the music" ...and it worked in spades.
For me, I think any issues, no matter how small, are amplified (psychologically) when my monetary investment is large. When I have less invested issues of imperfectness seem to not bother me as much, if at all. It also helps that my new cheap/vintage rig sings like a synergistic match made in heaven.
I say go for it ...you can always go back and the same stuff will likely only cost less the next time around. The first time I had and sold an SP-9mkIII it cost me $1200 and I sold it for the same. When a bought another a few years later I paid $800 and then sold it for $1,000.00 ...which in itself paid for most of my new (old) system.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom : Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Dean, I agree...
The trip back down the mountain is always a nicer hike. I'm sure your story is not unique, I for one have been though it too.
There is defiantly a point of "diminished returns" not to mention a point of "to much of a good thing...", unfortunately these epiphanies usually come with a cost and take time to become apparent.
bill
You're a single dad living paycheck to paycheck(which implies you have no savings)and you have over 25K in your audio system; as we are going through the worse economic downfall the country has seen since the crash of '29. Do you really need me to answer your question...At the very least I hope it's not on credit.
Harsh words, yes maybe, but it's how this country go here.Good luck with it and I sincerely hope you keep getting to "enjoy the music"!
Regards,
bill
Edits: 05/20/09
Twice - on my personal finances and the recession
I liked your first reply post better. In any event...There is defiantly a debate to be had over the 30's vs the 80's, all within the eye of the beholder.
But "paycheck to paycheck" implies no savings. Your second post made a different statement, but then you already figured that out.
Edits: 05/20/09
fin1bxn,
I was interested in your post as I have recently sensed that I've reached a kind of audio saturation point:
ARC SP8
ARC SP10
ARC D115
ARC LS3
ARC D130
McIntosh MX110
McIntosh MC240
McIntosh MR67
McIntosh MR77
Dynaco PAS3
Dynaco ST70
Fisher 800C
Scott 330D
Peavey VMP2
ART DI/O
EICO HF-14
Marantz 2235
Marantz 2275
Oracle Delphi III/ SME V
Dual 1019
Technics SL-D2/ Shure V15
Cambridge Audio 640C
Toshiba 3960 (2)
Vandersteen 2C
Infinity Primus 360
Spectrum 208AB
Sennheiser 280HD
plus:
about 675 NOS tubes
4 power conditioners
8 reasonably serious sets of interconnects
3 reasonably serious sets of speaker cables
I'm conscious of all this as I'm moving in two weeks and am working ou how to revive my sleeping Audio Research SP10- gain pot, capacitors and tubes- $500, ARC D115: capacitors and tubes $800, and Oracle turntable: cartridge, belt, and mat: $900.
Not only is this a bite financially I shouldn't do at this time, there is so much other stuff to organize. I will never have more than a main system, an office system, and perhaps a bedroom system, and so I'm now thinking of ways to reduce the pile of gear.
Like you, I like the idea of very high quality sound, but I think for example that today I could simplify by replacing the wonderful Audio Research D115 tube amplifier with one of the good Audio Research solid state amplifiers like the D200/300/400 series, D130, D240, 100.2, or 150.2.
Still, it's difficult to decide what to let go- I can't sell the Marantz 2235 I bought as my first piece of audio gear in 1971, the SP8 that changed my audio life, the SP10 which is still for me among the best three or four phono preamps ever, the McIntosh MX110 and MC240 which are such wonderful evcocations of the finned Cadillac era, the Dynaco PAS and ST70 were gifts from the person who assembled them in 1964- and so on. My problem is I have the collectors' disease- if I start remembering why I bought something- I can't conceive of selling it. The only thing I can see selling at the moment is the McIntosh MR77 as I've barely used it.
Difficult to "go back", but at this point in my life, I'm dreaming more of a log cabin in the woods filled with books, a piano, and a kerosene lantern than the Manhattan penthouse with Rothkos, a six-figure pair of speakers, and the Julliard Quartet over for dinner,..
I think your idea of settling into listening to a good turntable > integrated > speakers sounds just fine! I think I could do that with the addition of a good tuner.
Cheers,
Bambi B
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