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98.234.191.173
Can anyone point me to links that have 2009 CES High End Audio show photo and coverage?
GerryM5
Follow Ups:
We posted a collection of links to nearly 50 pages of CES 2009 coverage on Daily Audiophile. See it here:
We posted part two of the wrap-up collection today. There are now over 75 links from 14 publications. See it here:
nt
Sure, preview has been online for weeks and just posted our first of quite a few reports to come. Link below.
Enjoy the Music,
Steven R. Rochlin
....did a very nice job. I especially liked that he included his personal commentary, rather than just listing product names and prices. Makes for a more personalized "visit".
I now realize I didn't see your mug at the Alexis....did you not come to Vegas?
nt
Was reading some of my old show reports and can see how far off things have gotten. You know, there i a time a man MUST realize that it is time for a break. Stepping aside and allowing others to shine...
See below link for my WCES 1999 report, one of my most enjoyable reports IMHO. Compare that to recent ones and, well...
Enjoy(ing) the Music ("Wonderful Life" right now),
Steven R. Rochlin
"It's my life
Don't you forget
It's my life
It never ends..."
After attending about 100 (not a typo) shows in the past 15 or so years i needed a break. Am simply burned out on shows for the moment. Besides, felt there was no **need** for me to go as have hired MANY new writers and Rick (and others) can cover the show for me. Of course you well know we can all easily conduct 'business from the comforts of our homes :)
Please note how extensive the CES/THE Show 2009 preview report on Enjoy the Music.com was/is. Well, that proves there was plenty of information for me to post without ever having to set foot in Sin City or be subject to waiting for those blasted CES shuttles or waiting endlessly for an elevator. Of course i do miss seeing many of the great people within the industry, though we usually meetup in Munich, RMAF or other shows during the year. Pretty much everyone within the industry who goes to shows has seen me at one time or another over the years.
See you in Munich? Milan? London? Brazil? Denver? The Far East?
i feel we NEED a show in Hawaii, or Fuji Island... or perhaps Cuba once they open it up to American tourists. Enough of this darn Vegas, let us have a show at different exotic places every year. You know, some place we'd all actually WANT to visit yet never have. Vegas is so, like, a decade ago.
Have you heard, Elvis is alive and well... living in Las Vegas!
ThankYouVeryMuch :)
Enjoy the Music,
Steven R. Rochlin
I know, I know. If the audio gods are good, I'll share a nice meal with you in Munich.
Many thanks!
GerryM5
8 pages of coverage starting at http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2009/ .
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Kudos to the Stereophile crew for very complete coverage!
WAF?
My original photo and my report on the Vivid Giya speakers at CES can be
found at the link below.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
You can find our show report at: http://www.soundstage2.com/lasvegas2009/
I hope you're pleased with the quality of photos there.
http://www.soundstage2.com/lasvegas2009/
Doug Schneider @ SoundStageNetwork.com
Hey Doug,
How come there was no Souundstage coverage at T.H.E. Show?
We didnd't separate T.H.E. Show from the rest of the coverage, but it's in there. Marc Mickelson made sure he went on one of the first days, and a couple other team members dropped by on Saturday.
If you look, you'll see Magnepan, Artemis, Calyx, Art.Engine, which were all at T.H.E. Show.
Doug Schneider
....with Jeff Fritz regarding the Trinnov room correction we were using, and saw the quiet form of Marc Mickelson another day. Other than that, rather spare coverage at T.H.E. SHOW.
I wouldn't say that the coverage of the T.H.E. Show is out of line with the size of T.H.E. Show at all. You have to admit that there's hardly anyone there. For most of our guys to have at least visited there was good. I think I was the only one who didn't.
But, if you really want traffic and proper promotion and all the things that go with it, you should really be at the Venetian. That's where most companies are, most attendees frequent, and is the place to be. Simple as that.
DS
T.H.E. SHOW has become both a destination, and an attraction. Witness the fine live music comparisons with Ray Kimber & Brian Cheney/VMPS, the entertaining demonstrations of Peter Noerbeck/PBN Audio, and John Atkinson's presentation on Sunday. Manufacturers and distributors who exhibit there WANT to be there, and reviewers/dealers/distributors do the meet and greet because they need and want to see those particular companies.Cost is lower, accessibility to rooms is exemplary (especially for those of us who enjoy loading directly from the parking lot, at any time of day or night), and it's now an easy walk. No waiting for elevators, no long lines, no miles of concrete that wear you out, and a lovely lunch to boot. The buffet at the Alexis was quite tasty, a couple of days even with fresh baked fish and steamed vegetables. The desserts were quite delicious as well. I especially enjoyed the setting, as I had meetings with colleagues most every day, and could discuss business without having to fight the slap echo or the constant din of the gambling hall. These are just some of the intangibles that made this years' show a delight for many of us. Different strokes, as they say.
Traffic is a double-edged sword. As I stated, people came to T.H.E. SHOW because they wanted to, and no fighting to get on an elevator. While at times the corridors of the Venetian look crowded, what you have is a given number of people fitting into an 8-or-10 foot-wide hallway....it looks busy. It's a "funnel effect". And I know from talking to a few of the Venetian exhibitors that overall traffic was down, down, down from last year.
The "hallway" of the Alexis is a very-wide-open courtyard. The perception is completely different. When hundreds of people aren't in the courtyard, to you it looks deserted. But attendees were IN THE EXHIBIT ROOMS. I know because I stepped out for fresh air several times a day, sometimes just to take a moment from the bustle inside our room. Excepting for Friday, which was an unusually show day, each and every day brought a constant stream of guests. Many times it was standing room only, which looks good to some, but when you are doing important listening, and especially doing critical A--B demos, too many people in the room is a detriment. I talked to some reviewers who had to visit and re-visit rooms at the Venetian several times over (if they remembered to go back) just to take photos and take a decent listen. In short, we all have individual needs, requirements, and expectations.
For a good number of exhibitors in the Alexis, all expressed (to me) that they were quite happy with the traffic....quality over quantity. For us the same. We saw all the reviewers we had hoped for, which for direct sellers is far more important....we don't need nor look for dealers and distributors. Not only did we conduct private sessions for select reviewers, but we had a good amount of foreign press as a welcome treat. For other manufacturers, who do look for dealers and distributors, or simply wish to expand business with existing dealer/distributors, one only needs to ask Ralph Karsten, Jonathan Tinn, Paul Wakeen, and Peter Noerbeck about their success. They all did killer business. Word has it that Ralph wrote so much business on the first day of the show he could have packed up and gone home right then and there. In speaking to Paul, he had orders coming out of his ears. In talking with Richard Beers just today, all the largest rooms are already reserved for 2010, and fresh marketing for the next show is coming out in a week or so.
Not bad for a show you think or perceive was under-attended.
Edits: 01/18/09
That all sounds fun, and it seems like you had a good time, but consider this:
Would T.H.E. Show have a chance of surviving if CES wasn't there? You don't have to answer.
For T.H.E. Show to have even a remote chance at survival, they'd have to make it a much larger, more credible affair with the right kind of promotion behind it. If that happened, watch your room rates skyrocket.
People come to Las Vegas in January for CES. If they happen to get to off-site exhibits, fine. But if they don't, don't be surprised if your goal is to save some money and exhibit far, far away.
About four years ago our own Jim Saxon was the first to speak out about manufacturers complaining about lack of coverage when their not at CES. He told them to quit complaining and get where the others are. A few of them were angry at Jim, but today all of those same ones he directed it to are at the Venetian.
I'm not selling CES like you're selling the show. But I do want to make the point that when I'm in Las Vegas in January, it's for CES. I do make it to the Mirage for the off-site exhibits -- it's across the street. That's not too bad.
DS
I started doing CES in 1989. We did both winter and summer. Back the, CES was no easier to deal with than today. I watched the union people move empty shipping containers through the McCormick lobby and to the end of the open patio, where they dropped the boxes three stories to the ground floor garage, where they were stored. More than one box was destroyed by that process, with no compensation from CES or the unions- how do you get your gear back home without boxes??
Over the years, paying for abuse was commonplace at CES. One year I found that our name was not on the door, nor in the showguide, nor on the computors! I began to wonder what I had paid for. The name finally appeared during the second half of the 3rd day. **After** missing several important contacts, who thought I was just being flaky for not being there.
CES offered no compensation; in fact IME its not company policy to admit to making mistakes.
If I had to point to a reason for the existence of T.H.E. Show, it would be that I am not alone- there are many manufacturers that have come to the conclusion that paying for abuse is not worth what you get when you pay for it. T.H.E. Show was founded on the idea that High End audio has different requirements that CES is unable to provide:
1) flexibility when handling delicate and expensive equipment
including ready room access by exhibitor personnel
2) responsiveness to individual exhibitor's needs
3) responsiveness to mistakes
There is no question that T.H.E. Show would not exist without CES. In fact, it exists (IME) solely because of CES, on account of CES being unable to adequately supply the needs of high end audio in an industry show.
I don't expect that we will get the same foot traffic, nor the same coverage. We also don't get the cost and more importantly, the extreme hassles. The attention we **do** get is from interested buyers, which is of course what a trade show is for. CES, IMO, exists for reasons other than being a trade show.
I don't mind at all that you yourself were not there, and I appreciate the coverage that has been given in the past. But I do not agree that we **should** be at CES any more than I agree that I **should** be abused; IME the two are the same.
Hi Ralph,
I can sympathize with your position, but I'm not sure that running a show to the side of CES makes for any real improvement.
I'm well aware of some of the problems companies had with CES -- about 5 years ago was probably the worst, which is when I think you were talking about -- but I don't believe THE Show has picked up the ball and did what their show what they should have done, mostly, being a large-enough, self-sustaining show that can stand on its own.
So, what we have is a greatly improved CES (the Venetian is actually very good and the crowded elevators aren't that big of a deal) and quite good traffic. Sure, there are problems still. But is THE Show really a viable alternative particularly in light of the fact that it wouldn't have a chance of surviving if CES was there?
On the other hand, Rocky Mountain has really become something and we fully support that one. Despite the fact that CEDIA's been held in the same city one month before for the last few years, it's become a credible standalone show that doesn't need any other show to survive. It's done what THE Show should have done years ago.
DS
Hi Doug,
I think the issue of CES being unable to do for the industry what it should is pretty important, but putting that aside for a moment, what T.H.E. Show does is compete with CES. They cannot do that at a different time or city.
In this case, the competition that T.H.E. Show has provided has forced CES to do a better job! T.H.E. Show has saved exhibitors **at CES** thousands of dollars per exhibitor as CES has had to rein in the gouge and try to do a little better job. Unfortunately they are so poorly managed that, if they are to be believed, they have lost money on all Vegas specialty audio shows in the last 5-10 years. By contrast, T.H.E. Show has made some money- it does not have a subsidy to keep it alive like the Venetian aspect of CES does.
The worst thing that ever happened to Harley Davidson was Indian going out of business. A lack of competition can create mediocrity; CES is an excellent example. If T.H.E. Show fails, CES will immediately go back to business as usual. I know this because I have seen it in the past, more than once, and after the first time **I** saw it, old timers in the industry told me they had seen the same thing in the past before my time as well: If T.H.E. Show goes out, you will see CES raise the room rates dramatically, and further curtail services while adding more restrictions.
Literally, T.H.E. Show is the only thing stopping them. T.H.E. Show is directly responsible for across the board improvement- it forces CES to show a little quality while at the same time reduces gouging. So its not 'important', its vital!
Why must it be one show or the other? Other than you, who decided that T.H.E. SHOW must "stand on its own"? By what measure, since you're a "measurement" guy? Must there be only one way of doing things? Do you only eat one type of food? Should there only be one store to buy music? Should there be only one radio station or TV station? Should there be only one audio magazine?
I wonder what your thoughts would have been after the very first year of RMAF, or even the second. I participated both years, and know the travails the organizers had to deal with. Now that RMAF has been deemed "a success", you "fully support that one". Bravo for taking such an easy stand. If it had been up to you, with your narrow vision, RMAF would have never continued.
Hi Alan,
Back again I see.
What I've said for years is this: When your marketing plan seems to be to tag along with a highly successful show, you'll never create anything that's self-sustaining. Simply take CES away and see what happens. Does it have enough to offer?
On the other hand, I've never had anything but praise for the Rocky Mountain show. Early on, from what I understand, it was a pretty small thing, but through good marketing, promotion and operations, they've created a credible show. In my opinion, that's great. We'll cover it again this year although there are some who would like us see us do another European show or something in Asia.
Also, take this into consideration: I used to be a huge support of Montreal's show, but not anymore. They've taken what was close to becoming the top show in North America and, unfortunately, back-peddled into what I consider more or less a regional show this year. As a result, we've cut out a lot of our coverage of that one. From what I understand, they're trying to revamp that show and I'll attend to see it this year to see what improvements have been made, but last year's was a far cry from what it once was.
I hope that explains.
DS
I hope that explains.
It only explains that you deem certain shows not "credible" (whatever the hell that means), even though the promoters put their hearts and souls and money on the line, and that some manufacturers and distributors are not worthy of your time....period. Regional shows help promote manufacturers that otherwise could not attend CES, or in the past, the Stereophile shows due to the exorbitant cost. It remains that you are, defacto, telling your readership what manufacturers and distributors should stay in business, and by ignoring so many others, those who should not. Pretty damn sad.
Thank goodness there are other magazines (hey, what a concept!) who choose to cover the many companies you've chosen to ignore....that's great for the industry and its financial health.
I hope that explains.
> > > As far as putting hearts and souls and money on the line goes...
We worked for 5 days non-stop in Vegas. I didn't sleep more than 3-4 hours per night, and I shot and edited more than 200 photos. Marc Mickelson edited every word of our show report, and Jeff Fritz managed the aspects of the team. Speaking of money, there are costs to doing this -- each team member is paid to be there.
Covering a show requires a lot of out-of-pocket expenses as well. Show coverage doesn't happen for free.
DS
Doug,
What I do not understand is why you as "the press" are taking this stance. THE Show is of as much interest to the readers of your magazine as is CES. Isn't your responsibility to your readers?
We chose to exhibit at the Alexis Park because it is a venue we love. We exhibited there when CES used those facilities. It is comfortable and easy to get around. Also it is much easier to "talk buisiness" there. It is also incredibly easy for us to setup and access the room and dealing with Richard Beers (THE Show organizer), is a pleasure. He is highly accommodating and always available. I do not want to be on the strip in a big hotel. If it were not for THE Show, we would not exhibit in Las Vegas. And no, it has nothing to do with the money.
I do acknowledge that Jeff Fritz came by to say hello and it was truly a pleasure to meet him. That being said, I still believe coverage was virtually non-existent from your magazine.
Best Regards,
Jonathan Tinn
What the thread originally started at is that we didn't really have coverage of that show -- THE Show. However, as I pointed out, we actually do: Magnepan, Artemis, Reference 3A, and others, were covered at that show.
What I then pointed out, though, is that *we* can only afford to send so many people to THE Show as there are far more exhibitors that we must cover at the Venetian and the LVCC -- both are CES exhibits, and again I'll stress that CES is *THE* reason people come down to Vegas in January, not off-site exhibits. The off-site exhibits basically tag along with CES. The Venetian gets the #1 focus because, for our coverage, it's got by far the largest number of exhibitors applicable to our readership.
However, this year we only got about 60% of what was in there and next year I'd like us to get closer to 100%. Therefore, for us to spend money on writers going to other venues doesn't make sense when this one is the priority.
DS @ SoundStageNetwork.com
Whatever you "covered" at T.H.E. SHOW turned out to exactly TWO rooms plus one picture of Tash Goka, who was given an award. Deservedly so, and word has it that Tri Mai of Triplanar received an award as well (I don't recall a picture). However, in your "vast" coverage online, you published more pictures of yourself and your staff (well over two dozen by estimation) over the 4 days, which is easily several hundred percent more coverage than you gave T.H.E. SHOW. Truly amazing. I surmise your readership is more interested in looking at you dozing on a bench, or going up an escalator than seeing more s.o.t.a. gear.And now this comment from your wrap-up: "However, despite being dead tired, I'm quite proud of what we did this year. I vowed before CES 2009 that we'd produce the largest, most comprehensive CES show report anywhere, and we did it. Furthermore, we upped the ante on the whole thing. Look at the quality and quantity of the photos here and compare them to what you find elsewhere, print or online. From the feedback we've received so far, they're the best anyone has ever seen.
And you're serious! Compare your purposefully-selected and limited coverage with Positive Feedback Online and Audio Federation, for instance, and repeat those words with a straight face. You're only convincing yourself.
Edits: 01/20/09 01/20/09
Well, thanks for reading so thoroughly. I suspect that if you go back through the product coverage, even though certain things aren't explicitly said, some products likely came from THE Show. However, don't necessarily feel compelled to do that -- no matter how many times you look at our report, I suspect there's nothing you'll like.
So, we'll leave it at that and perhaps we'll see each other at one of the shows, or perhaps in Vegas in 2010 -- at the Venetian, perhaps. They serve a heck of a good lunch at the Grand Lux Cafe, you know!
DS
....or don't want to get it. Don't cover the show, don't cover the myriad number of exhibitors....your business decision. To me, it's a lack of effort and vision on your part. Most of the manufacturers and distributors at T.H.E. SHOW should give your mag the same lack of attention....you certainly don't deserve it.
We'll survive, you'll survive, and T.H.E. SHOW will survive just fine. It's well over 10 years now....they must be doing something right. Your prognosis for it has turned out to be dead wrong. Why does T.H.E. SHOW keep many of the same exhibitors year-after-year? Re-read my other post. We like to be treated well in a stress-free environment.
Again, as far as any manufacturer's lack of coverage, that's on YOU. It's your responsibility as a journalist and owner of an online magazine....period. But you've always made excuses for one reason or another. Other magazines have no qualms or problems covering the entire show (after all, there are free and frequent shuttles between the hotels), and their advertising numbers are damn strong. Perhaps you don't want the additional revenue.
That's fine Alan. If you noticed in my posts, I didn't go. However, 3 of our writers did go. Did you go to the Mirage for the companies? How about the main LVCC. We had people at all these places. Are you going to be in Montreal, Munich, Atlanta, Denver? We'll be there.
My point about T.H.E. Show, however, is this: January is about CES primarily. That's what people go for and, if you ask me, CES has done a very good job at the Venetian. People might pay more for those rooms, but they're paying for probably the top consumer-electronics show in the world and the real reason people come to Vegas then.
I would think that if T.H.E. Show was such a success, it could stand on its own like RMAF. Can it?
DS
So from your point-of-view it's o.k. to ignore most of the manufacturer's and distributors, excepting for a small handful? Is that good for the industry? Just because you think T.H.E. SHOW is a "secondary" location? Even though the Alexis was, for years, the primary site for high-end audio? But now you feel it's worthless?
Did I go to the Mirage or elsewhere? Hell, no....I didn't have TIME to go to the Mirage, nor the Convention Center. I was busy in my room, taking care of guests, and OTHER reviewers. Will I go to Munich? Quite likely this year, and probably one of the Netherlands shows as well. I might even top it off at Top Audio in Milan again. So? I'm a manufacturer. But you own an audio review magazine, with a responsibility to and for the health of the industry.
Your comment or question whether T.H.E. SHOW could stand on its own is at best irrelevant and at the very least a contrived issue. But what does that have to do with supporting more audio businesses and potential advertisers? The real issue is that you choose to ignore good manufacturers and distributors, who offer (in many cases) world-class products that other magazines enjoy reviewing, simply because they happen to be in a different location.
If the sound in a room stinks, that's a legitimate reason not to spend any time in that room and not provide comment in a show report. But to largely avoid rooms because of your editorial or commercial bias not only shows lazy thinking, it reflects a limited industry vision.
Let's see...
We went to every venue, including yours, and we published more than 200 photographs that you can find here: http://www.soundstage2.com/lasvegas2009/
Somehow I think we covered as much as anyone. Or is there something else like you're feeling left out and missed because you wanted to save a few bucks and get free lunch.
For what it's worth, even with all your grandstanding, you haven't covinced me to go to T.H.E. Show 2010, if there is one. I was actually at the venue one day before it opened to give out an award there. From what I saw, there were less exhibitors there than in one wing of one floor at the Venetian. It certainly wasn't worth all of our team. In fact, 3 went, but 1 would have been sufficient.
Like I said, if you want a better chance to be seen, go where you're supposed to be. CES moved OUT of the the Alexis Park.
DS
....and I'll keep stating you're doing a disservice to the industry.
I've never enjoyed your overall editorial policy, and everything you've said in this thread continues to turn me off. I'm not alone in my feelings, btw. It's your magazine, and you clearly don't give a shit. I'll spread the word with my colleagues.
go where you're supposed to be.
Your arrogance is stunning.
Your thread started out with the lack of coverage at T.H.E. Show, and I tried to explain. Now, since you're also going to talk to you colleagues about this, can I ask you to tell them this:
-- Last year a company that used to show at one of the hotels near the Alexis Park asked me what I thought of them exhibiting there again in 2009. We had covered them at their hotel before, but I told them that in 2009 things would be different and more manufacturers would be at the Venetian and if they really wanted to ensure magazines get to their room, including ours, then bank on the Venetian. This year they were at the Venetian and much happier I understand.
-- A few years ago Jim Saxon hit at a few companies in print by telling them they were looking second-rate by exhibiting at something less than CES. They weren't happy about Jim's comments -- but the next year all those companies went to CES and have been there since.
Alan, I'm simply telling you what it's like covering a show -- you've never actually done it. In fact, I'll give you some info ahead of 2010...
... most of our team sat down after the show and we talked about how we could improve coverage even more. We ran out of time. Whereas we had 2 guys do LVCC for 1.5 days, in 2010 we'll have 1 guy for 1 day there. Three people showed up at T.H.E. Show. In 2010, 1 will go. The rest of the team will be focused on The Venetian -- we only got to about 60% of the rooms this year, and that's where the bulk of the companies are.
You may disagree with the way we structure our coverage, but it's our team, our money, our time doing it. You set up your own exhibit as you see fit.
DS
....and only so many people to cover what you can. Totally understandable. It's a big show, and I don't envy anyone or any magazine trying to cover several different venues over 3 or 4 days. In fact it may be near impossible. In all the shows I've attended over 16 years, even while an industry "tourist", I am always reminded of the rooms I missed when I view subsequent show reports. Writers/reviewers for Stereophile, for instance, had specific assignments, and in talking to some, they couldn't get to all the rooms they needed to cover. Again, totally understandable. Time is precious.
But the pejoratives spewing forth from you are different matter. Treating manufacturers who choose to exhibit at T.H.E. SHOW like a misbehaving step-child, and purposefully handing out defacto "punishment" by not covering them is both arrogant and bad form. You could have simply stated...."Hey, we tried hard, but our writers had key assignments and couldn't be everywhere. We're really sorry we missed you. No guarantees, but we'll do what we can the next show." You could have said these things, but instead chose to demean T.H.E SHOW exhibitors for doing business at a venue you deem illegitimate and unworthy of your time.
In striking contrast, a senior editor from a long-standing national magazine actually apologized to me late Sunday because he ran out of time, having too much to cover....what a gentleman, and a class act.
Put whatever spin you want on it. My point is that our priority there is the CES exhibits. Now, other magazines have a different policy and may try to get to every offsite exhibit they can. Or maybe they'll prioritize them ahead of CES. Who knows. You pointed out a lack of coverage at THE SHOW, and in ways I concur, but don't apologize for it. Our priority is CES, but we did have 3 of our guys vist THE Show at one time or another. Next year, though, unless the show grows, it'll likely be 1.
DS
"I don't quite understand his attitude towards T.H.E. Who the hell cares if it'd stand on its own or not? The fact is, it is there, and people interested in this market segment sure as hell want to hear/read about it. All the media pour into CES. Do we really need more coverage of CES? If I'm an editor of a mag, and my target audience is audiophiles, I'd dispatch my reporters to T.H.E."
"Having said the above, I still can't fathom why Doug Schneider has such an attitude about the THE Show not being proper. Who the bleep cares? It exists. So it behooves him to send staff to cover it. Hell, if some journalist writes about what a trek it is to reach the THE Show, readers will appreciate and be thankful for the reporter's effort."
Re: "Hell, if some journalist writes about what a trek it is to reach the THE Show, readers will appreciate and be thankful for the reporter's effort."
In my experiences this year and years prior, the shuttle drivers were as pleasant, courteous and careful as could be imagined. Although the trip took several minutes, it didn't matter how many passengers were on board or if I was the only one, the service excellence was consistent. You couldn't ask for better, and my hat's off to them.
Brian Walsh
Good point, Brian....and it's FREE....for SHOW guests and CES guests, some of which were staying at the Alexis. Doug never mentions this important benefit, available to the media as well. Richard Beers made a point of increasing shuttle service (to and from the Venetian and convention center) even over prior years.
Hi Alan,
And here I thought it was safe to go back into the thread.
Your arguments, even that of your "customer," don't sway me. Yes, audiophiles want to read about products. But the highest concentration, BY FAR, is at the Venetian. Since it's inception, THE Show has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller. To me, this is what happens when your sole plan is to live off the marketing efforts of another show. It's kind of like THE Show is in a bad relationship or something -- always complaining about CES, always pointing out its faults, but can't survive without them.
As I said in a previous post, we only got to about 60% of the rooms I wanted us to. Furthermore, I've gotten a couple dozen emails from companies saying they were glad to see us, but they wished we could have stayed longer and listened more. We were rushed at The Venetian.
Which is exactly why, next year, we'll place MORE emphasis on The Venetian, less elsewhere.
Furthermore, we're not the only ones. It seems that Steve Stone as TAS is willing to state something similar, only stronger:
http://www.avguide.com/blog/does-the-show-have-any-legitimate-reason-exist
DS
Doug,
As a publisher it is your decision on whether you want to offer your readers complete coverage or not. I would just hope you disclose that to your readers who may expect more.
Certainly when I see magazines or writers awarding "Best of Show" or "Standout Rooms" I find it partially amusing and extremely misleading when there is no disclosure such as "We did not visit every room at CES or The Show, but of the ones we visited, we liked... the best".
As an audiophile who reads your publication I am disappointed. As a manufacturer and distributor, I would find it hard to consider doing anything in the future with you.
Hello Mr. Tinn,
Actually, we do want more complete coverage. As I said, we got to about 60% of The Venetian. The 40% that remains is many, many times that of THE Show. That's why our team discussed this right afterwards and we're looking for an even stronger Venetian focus in 2009. If budget allows, we *might* bring a better team, but that's not what we're betting on right now. If you want to do off-site close to the Venetian, a number of companies have been managing the Mirage quite nicely.
DS
....that other magazines covered more ground with less personnel in the same number of days, shooting far more product. Just look at PFO's coverage, as one example. Their two reports (so far) were written and edited by Dave & Carol Clark, and they covered the entire Alexis as well. I mean, hell....the Tower exhibits didn't cover much more than 3 partial floors. Maybe you spent too much time photographing each other and eating in the Grand Luxe to make it back for the other 40%.
Edits: 01/21/09
Hey Officer Kafton,
Thanks for the kinds words again and your contributions to the industry you're saving. I know my day wouldn't be complete without your insight.
Well, I guess I'm just not fast enough with those darn photos. Nevermind that we're also doing video these days, two of which I had to edit today...
http://www.soundstagev.com/
...but, again, I suspect you won't be happy about any of that even though I don't think anyone else is doing video with any regularity (there will be about 6 more videos coming online shortly, btw. I just got around to this).
But, I can imagine a million things that must be going through your mind with this: "Not fast enough." "Not at the right location." "Where's my special room in any of these things." "Why am I not in here?" "Where's the stuff I'm selling?" "Why am I not getting the coverage I deserve?" "Why am I being left out?" Maybe it's some of these things. Maybe it's all of these things. Maybe it's none of these things. But I'm pretty sure whatever it is, if it's coming from you toward me and my group, it won't be flattering.
So, you don't like us and what we do. So be it. Let's just call it a day officer and we can both part ways now. I don't have enough hours in the day as it is.
Thanks,
DS
Unapologetic, recalcitrant, and unwilling to see the needs of the many.And of course, it ain't your money paying for exhibiting, shipping, dreyage, etc. etc., your protestations to the contrary about spending your own money to cover the shows. So what? There are many reviewers from other magazines doing the same on their own dime, even coming from overseas, without a hint of complaint. But you seem to think your money is more important, just like your time.
You would rationalize your remarks if you heard such parroting from anybody. You're not convincing anyone except the man in the mirror and your paid staff.
And so we don't overlook your subject line....it wasn't TAS. How dare you conflate the two. It was a single writer, Steven Stone. He's apparently as narrow-visioned as you. And look at most of comments below the blog....surprise! They disagree with your position. Don't be shocked if this ends up biting you in the ass.
Edits: 01/21/09
RE: "You are truly the Dick Cheney of audio e-zines"
LOL! But let's not discuss politics :-)
I think what we have here is a standoff, but "My karma ran over your dogma" seems to be prevailing. Saying "put a fork in it" just doesn't wash.
Jonathan has a point: readers deserve to be informed if they don't give full coverage. In my book 60% coverage is far too low.
Brian Walsh
You're right it's too low. But, also, remember that nobody gets everything. Look at one report and it will have things another doesn't. CES -- note: CES -- has way too much going on without there being something to miss. The best one can hope for is to true and get most of it.
DS
> > > Unapologetic, recalcitrant, and unwilling to see the needs of the many.
Actually, the needs of many is what I'm trying to address. You're out playing "Officer Kafton" again and pissing'n'moaning that we didn't make it to your room while, in fact, I've had to deal with far more companies whose rooms we might of missed, or who wished we stayed their longer.
The way I see it Alan, you're not really trying to serve the industry, like you want it to appear. You're trying to serve yourself so you can save a few bucks, get free lunch, and a hotel room far, far away from The Strip.
Sorry, but we primarily go to CES for... you guessed it, CES.
DS
And as I stated in an earlier post, Jeff Fritz DID make it to our room, and I had a very pleasant conversation with him. And I stated that I had plenty of coverage from other magazines, and have had the same in previous years. I'm very fortunate.If you think I'm pissing and moaning, it's for all the other exhibitors who have gotten short shrift from you. They deserve better treatment. That would be good for the industry, regardless where they exhibit. Do they not deserve to be seen?
How about Audio Note or Stillpoints? Are they obscure companies? How about Wavac? They were right next door to Artemis, which got great coverage. Could the writer not walk an extra 10 feet? How about Harbeth? They were just across the walkway, as was Purist Audio. But according to your show report, they don't exist.
You could have avoided all this negative exposure if you'd just left the thread alone a couple of days ago. But your ego wouldn't allow it.
And with your extreme myopia and market ignorance, you see things as a black/white, either/or proposition. 'Tis a pity, and no matter how you rationalize it, exhibitors and your readership are the losers for it. My customer said it quite well.
Edits: 01/21/09 01/21/09
Hi Officer Kafton,
I'm really, really glad you out playing policeman for the industry and keeping track of who does what. The world needs more people watching out for to ensure everyone gets a fair shake. Thanks for the great work.
DS
(If you sense that I'm starting to tire of this, you're right. Thanks for your input and see you next year... hopefully at the Venetian.)
..... I found that there was simply too many fine exhibits at the Venetian that I didn't want to miss and just never could find the time to make the trip. I wish it had been otherwise, but one has only so much time and I used all mine at the Venetian.
But I agree with Doug. If you want to be seen, the Venetian is the place to be.
Just my (adjusted for inflation) $2
John Crossett___
It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.
John....sorry you couldn't make it. Please read my post to Doug.
Positive Feedback Online just posted the first of their show reports (in two parts). The second report can be linked from their TOC page.
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