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can you fire him?i think you know who i'm talking about.
Follow Ups:
Wow! This has been an amazing thread!!I'm fairly new to the hobby and have never read Stereophile, but I will pick up a copy now.
As a newbie in the area of audio equipment I'm looking for a balanced magazine that educates, elucidates, and elevates my understanding of the equipment and the music in an unbiased way. It sounds like some here feel that this is not the case with Stereophile.
The only subscription to an audio magazine that I have is Hi-Fi+. I have received 6 copies and find it to be very relevant in what I had hoped to find among, so far, excellent writers who guide this reader, and do so with great passion and craft both for the written word as well as for the products and music they review. Are they totally unbiased? I'm not knowledgeable enough with the copious amount of audio equipment and tweeks to be able to have formed an opinion, but even if they are I read it cover to cover and find myself occassionally buying and enjoying pieces of equipment because of their reviews, as well as a significant amount of the recordings they review, and I'm thrilled so far.
It will be interesting to see how Stereophile stacks up against it's British counterpart.
First of all: please cancel your subscriptions.Stereophile is our spiritual home, surrogate family and physical window into the audio industry as a whole. It goes through highs and lows, trials and tribulations, just as most things in life. And it's a business with typical business problems and dynamics.
It's that mix that the people who make the magazine have to keep hot, smooth, spicy, profitable, challenging, fun, interesting, culturally hip, musically compelling, honorable, honest and balanced.
They will never please everybody, surely annoy many, and also surely provide great entertainment and insights to most.
Should we not criticize? Of course we should. But the least we can do is use our brains when we do it, and our sense of humor when we write it. Lately I have seen many post that are written by folks who appear to have neither a brain nor a sense of humor.
And JA, John and Kal who post here regularly have never been anything but polite and reasonable. They are in a no win situation when confronted with utter nonsense. They have no choice. If they rant they loose, if they remain silent they loose too. And they can never let their private feelings come to the surface. Fortunately there are many people here who will defend them and the magazine or provide intelligent riposte to comments that deserve nothing but disdain.
I appeal to the moderator to delete on sight any brain dead, humorless and unnecessary Stereophile bashing. The moderator can decide whether to apply one, two or all of these attributes to consider a post for deletion.
I think one should be sufficient, don't you ?
Jw
What gives you any more of a right / privilege to bash those that you don't agree with in a non-humourous manner than someone else who is posting their honest, non-humourous thoughts about any other subject?Take the same advice that Ian offered and should be trying to apply to his own life i.e. ""PLEASE - just shut up, stop reading the thing and quit whining!!!!"
If folks like you, the ones that want the world to fix itself and don't have the balls to speak frankly about the problems that we face, would simply apply the same principles to your posts that you expect out of others, this would be a much better place. On top of that, we would have a LOT less hypocrisy taking place.
Like i said in another post, there is nothing "artificial" or "two-faced" in what i've commented on. I'm just laying it on the line, good or bad. How you or anyone else wants to deal with it is up to you. If you want to shovel shit my way ( or at anybody else that cares enough to give a damn / speak their mind ), step into the pile with us and heave-ho. My guess is that i and the others involved can take it as well as we can dish it out. Sean
>
I have to go along with Sean's assertions about this month's Stereophile. However, I am not mad about Art Dudley's column. Truth be told, I found it hysterical!I have been noting over the past months that Art is going out of his way to raise the ire of the readers - this time by calling them on the carpet. This month's column has me really wondering if JA's intention is to have Art become the talk radio host of Stereophile. By that, I mean that to counter the decline in readership/revenue employ someone who can produce a reaction from the readers. From the bombastic blowhards of talk radio, we have learned that ratings come from angering the audience. It's proven more effective than placating them. And, heaven forbid they be boring, which is the ultimate curse.
Bill Giles, the managing partner of the Philadelphia Phillies during the bad teams of the 1980s answered the fans' complaints with, "I don't care if they talk good or bad about us, as long as they talk about us." Well, the problem is that one day we stopped talking about them. Not that I have come to this conclusion yet, but is Art Dudley Stereophile's move to ensure we don't stop talking about them?
I am not sure why Art engenders such vitriol. Perhaps, I just lean his way, but I never come away from reading him with any feelings other than having been entertained. Art is an excellent writer, and I find his interjections of humor to be quite enjoyable and funny. Say what you want about his ear, tastes, or whatever.
I have no argument with those who say that we should ensure the separation of politics and audio, they certainly have a valid point.
But, since Art has joined Stereophile, my satisfaction level with the magazine has racheted up considerably. I have a subscription that stretches far into the future, and when the thought of what I would do down the line entered my mind, I did consider not renewing. However, my desire to keep up with industry news and products convinced me that I would renew. Maybe the decision of others has gone the other way. Art coming on board since has really cemented in my mind that I will renew my subscription when the time comes, and has given me greater enjoyment from reading the magazine.
I will say that Sean's points regarding the Stereophile ring true to me. The size of the magazine does not please me whatsoever. Issues I have from the past are normally much larger. The reviewers other than Sam Tellig and Art Dudley are flat out boring to read. Kal Rubinson has made his writing more interesting, and is probably the most insightful when it comes to a component's sonics. Previously, I had an extremely difficult time reading through Kal's reviews. The other reviewers seem almost indistinguishable to me. I did find Chip Stern better than most of the others, but he is now gone.
Art Dudley is obviously the heir apparent to Sam Tellig, Sam being the most popular writer there. And, as is obvious to any of us, the quality of Sam's work has been on the decline. For a while it was a bit cute, but his reviews of equipment from the same few companies month in and month out has left me far from interested. As I have said before, the only thing that would have put the CJ MV60 review any farther over the top would have been if he went into a spiel about the rep providing a couple of hookers during their festivities(in no way am I implying that happened). Sam's anger, overuse of the same boring lines, lack of substance, and most of all, overreview of the chosen few have left me remembering his better, sharper days as a writer.
In the end, the job of John Atkinson and everyone else at Stereophile is to sell magazines, and I guess he is doing his best to accomplish that.
ps - don't miss Scull in the least!
I agree that ST is much more interesting when he isn't trying to pass off his advertising copy as unbiased reviews. It's been pretty obvious the past several months that he's assumed the French audio industry account left vacant since the JS departure. As for MF, there's enough new products to keep everyone busy.On the whole though, it's still a good mag and I value JA's bench testing (although his handling of the XA160 test was a low blow to PASSLABS) and reviews. JM's writing is above par, and Stereophile's music reviews are usually significantly better than those from TAS (where did TAS ever dredge up Fred Kaplan?).
Thanks for your honest input. We obviously differ in some areas / points of view, but it seems we both agree on the important stuff. Sean
>
.
It a'int all about the music I also want excellent sonics!
seem to have SOOOO much in common.Apply your own logic and statements to yourself i.e. "stop reading Sean's posts if you do not like them - simple really." Sean
>
present company accepted, that is.And also, please, oh please allow Art to review the Klipschorns, and soon! Make sure he uses one of those gawdawful noise generating SET amps with it.
Randy
I smoke and I drink
and each time I blink
I have a tiny dream
As bad as I am,
I'm proud of the fact
that I'm worse than I seem
- Ani DiFranco
> i think you know who i'm talking about. <
Nope. Your open letter was, er, a little too cryptic, "Jealouse."
As I explained in the March issue's "As We See It," we added 16 more
editorial pages starting this month, BTW.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
This latest issue is so thin that maybe they should consider going to leaflet / flyer form. What's up with this? TAS keeps getting thicker and thicker and Stereophile is shrinking. Is there such a thing as "viagra" or Vitamin B-12 for publications???As far as J. Gordon Holt goes, that "old man" still has more heart, balls and common sense than most anyone on the staff. I bet that he feels sick every time that he picks up the latest issue of Stereophile to see what his "baby" has become. I feel sorry for him and all the effort that he put forth to have it end up like this.
While i've always disagreed with Art's political and social commentaries and thought that they were pretty out of place in an audio rag, he's now talking more bullshit than he is writing about audio. It almost seems that JA is catering to this and encouraging Art i.e. the comments pertaining to Art reviewing the ASL amps and expecting to get a rise out of JA with the test bench results. If this is the way things are going to be going, Stereophile will be going the way of Listener. "Passionate" about one's political / social beliefs and specific styles of music reproduction gear or not, cut the crap and get back on course. No bunnies for anyone.
Antique Sound Labs: I can probably dig up some old junk tube amps from discarded 1960's Zenith consoles that are better built, more linear and sound as good or better. Anybody that buys that kind of crap and calls it "hi-fidelity" is only fooling themselves. $3000 for a distortion generator that can also be used as a VERY non-linear amplifier. What a bargain.
As far as Tellig goes, why not just call it the Sam quotes Antony show? Then again, we might have to call it the Sam, Antony and Roy show if things keep going like they have been. At least Roy has a sense of humour and can joke about buying reviews / reviewers and subscriptions. One HAS to wonder if this is an inside joke though...
Kal: What's up with the Goertz / HF oscillation situation? Obviously, you had to have run into this situation prior to our posts concerning this cable and HF oscillation over at Agon that took place within the last month or so. As such, why did you comment that very few amps need the Zobel's after i've stressed time and time again that Zobel's should NOT be "optional" with these cables? The fact that you had to have the manufacturer deliver another amplifier without figuring this out for yourself has me second-guessing your competence. Prior to this, i had quite a bit of faith in your reviews as you seemed to provide more "between the lines" info than most of the other "reviewers" on staff. I'm really confused now, especially after we've discussed this situation both at Agon and in the Cable Asylum dozens of times. You have participated in at least one of these conversations and were fully aware of the potential for such to happen.
Musical Fidelity: What more can i say that hasn't been said for the last several years? At least Mikey was honest enough to point out that this unit was not his cup of tea. Then again, that doesn't really matter because he thought it was good enough to recommend even though he himself wouldn't buy it. Kind of like saying "I wouldn't spend the money on this unit, but if you're interested, it's probably good enough for you". Go figure....
Theta Enterprise: JA states "Commendably for a design with minimal negative feedback, the bandwidth doesn't change with load impedance". Is that so??? Please explain Figure 1 on page 103 to me then. On top of that, what kind of "high tech" $9000 stereo amplifier sporting "digital technology" is rated at 1.75% THD and can delivers less than 50% of the power it can into 8 ohms when driving a 2 ohm load??? Another piece of "under-designed, over-priced crapola"...
Hovland Radia: Here's a $9500 amp rated for 125 wpc @ 8 ohms, yet it distorts at anything above 20 watts when trying to drive 2 ohm loads. To top it off, the first model Hovland sent had hum problems and didn't meet gain spec's. I guess that Hovland isn't charging enough for this product to be able to afford anyone in their quality control department???
As a side note that pertains to the review of the Radia, Paul Bolin is using a set of speakers ( Legacy 20/20 ) that are highly coloured pieces of junk as a reference. These speakers have a huge 3 octave bass plateau that starts at 300 Hz and levels out at 40 Hz with a +7 dB peak centered at 100 Hz. Combine this with a +4 dB peak at 6 KHz, a -3 dB dip at 9 KHz and another big +8 dB peak at appr 12 KHz with horrible transient response factored in. Bare in mind that these spec's were derived from Stereophile's own test results for these speakers. In that review, Bolin stated that the Legacy's were "the finest value that i've ever encountered in high end audio" and "the transparency and detail resolution of the Focus are comparable to those of speakers costing considerably more". One has to wonder how he could hear ANY "sonic characteristics" of the devices up-stream through these "not so linear" transducers. The fact that Paul not only raved about these speakers in their previous Stereophile review but would even remotely consider them as reference quality to review other products with speaks volumes about not only his listening skills, but also that of the integrity of Stereophile's reviews in general.
Needless to say, i found this issue of Stereophile to be COMPLETELY dis-heartening. Was this an issue devoted to "under-designed, over-priced crapola" and / or controversial hype designed to keep you tuned in to see just how bad things can get??? C'mon guys, can't you do ANY better than this??? If this is what "hi-end" and "subjectivity in audio" is about, we ARE doomed. Sean
>
I see there was no attempt from JA to refute any of Sean's criticisms of the so-called "reviews".
Dudley is an idiot, many of us relaize that and ignore him. Don't let his stupidity distract you all from the very serious flaws pointed-out by Sean!!!
personally, i see no future in the magazine that ridicules its very readers.
This is the Morton Downey / Jerry Springer mentality that has crept into society. Finding the lowest common denominator and then exploiting it for all it is worth provides shock / entertainment value for those that lack respect for themselves and others. The very fact that JA allowed Art to devote 4 pages of text to utter bullshit was insane. Then JA starting off with some type of "opening comments" pertaining to Art's review of the ASL's had me scratching my head and wondering what magazine i had "tuned in to". This was more like a three ring circus than the Stereophile that i was already unhappy with. Sean
>
> This was more like a three ring circus than the Stereophile that i
> was already unhappy with.
Hi Sean, I don't see any need to address your (many) points
concerning your dissatisfaction with Stereophile in general and its
March issue in particular. But I would like to ask you a question,
which is whether you subscribe or whether you buy the magazine on
the newsstand? Thanks.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
"But I would like to ask you a question, which is whether you subscribe or whether you buy the magazine on the newsstand?"I may be a glutton for punishment, but i'm not completely daft. To answer your question, i am a subscriber and have been one for more than a few years. There is NO way that i would be paying $6 an issue for something like this. Having said that, i tried to send a gift subscription to my Father several months ago, but for some reason, they added more time onto my subscription rather than send him the issues. If such were not the case, my subscription would have been lapsing in a few more months, but now i've got well over another year to go. Since i've already paid for it, i'm going to at least look at it. That is, until things get so frustrating that i just throw them in the recycling bin. Sean
>PS... As a case in point, Kal took the time to respond to me privately via email. He cares enough about his readers and the public perception of Stereophile to address such things. You should be glad that you have at least one employee with a conscience. The fact that you, the "Captain of the ship", aren't addressing any of this tells me where things are headed.
Put on your life preservers folks, cuz we'll be swimming for shore....
.
Please set the example by following your own advice. Sean
>"PLEASE - just shut up, stop reading the thing and quit whining!!!!"
n.t.
> The fact that you, the "Captain of the ship", aren't addressing any > of this tells me where things are headed.
I have spent a lot of time in the past Sean addressing specific
questions you have asked of me, only for you to become increasingly
abusive. I see no point in encouraging you in this co-dependent
syndrome, as frustrating as you may find this.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
I think it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.John said: "I have spent a lot of time in the past Sean addressing specific questions you have asked of me, only for you to become increasingly abusive. I see no point in encouraging you in this co-dependent syndrome, as frustrating as you may find this."
My response is that if you were being honest with yourself and everyone else here, you would have also stated that i've gone out of my way to highlight many aspects of Stereophile ( test bench reviews, free website info, excellent archive of past technical articles on the web, etc..) and even paid personal compliments and words of support to yourself, a few of your reviewers and the magazine in general. I've done this as the occassion arises and / or as i deem appropriate. Instead of doing so, you imply that my only goal is to stir the pot and blacken your eye AFTER you've extended your hand in friendship. As anyone with common sense can tell you, a "friend" isn't someone that only gives you compliments. A real friend will tell you when you've got snot hanging out of your nose just as soon as they'll pat you on the back for a job well done. I feel sorry for you if you can't tell the difference between the two types of personalities.There is nothing "artificial" or "two-faced" here. I'm just laying it all on the line, good or bad. How you want to deal with it is up to you. Sean
>PS... If Art is the person that i think that he is and can be honest with himself, he too will remember that i welcomed him with open arms into the Stereophile family and did so publicly on these forums. There were others here that were shooting him down and i went out of my way to stick up for him. Just because i have criticized him now doesn't mean that i rescind my previous words of support for him or the magazine.
John, I don't know you, but do know that you and Sean have some history between you. And, for that matter, I realize that you don't know me either. I'm Joe, a longtime Stereophile subscriber from the Philadelphia, PA area.On to the meat of the matter... Sean has raised some very cogent points concerning Stereophile, the current issue in particular. For you to chime in and say that you really have nothing to say is the ulimate in not really having any ammunition to throw at him, yet neither do you simply not respond at all. If you don't have anything to add, why do you feel it necessary to enter into the fray?
Personally, I feel that you actually do have things to add, and would like to hear your opinions on them.
And, for those who see my getting into this fracus as being difficult, no, I only hold Stereophile, the most important magazine in this hobby to the highest standards. I admit that the quality and entertainment value of the magazine has slipped quite a bit, and my long term goal, as Sean can attest, is to ensure Stereophile is as good as it possibly can be. If that takes breaking some eggs, well then let's start making an omelet.
> If you don't have anything to add, why do you feel it necessary to
> enter into the fray?
Because the fact I had not responded to Sean's posting was in itself
being made an issue, I felt that an explanation was appropriate.
> Personally, I feel that you actually do have things to add, and
> would like to hear your opinions on them.
Ask me any quetion you wish about Stereophile, "Trelja," and I will
do my best to answer it.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
John, I still don't think your response to Sean was worthy of a post.I do not have a question regarding Stereophile, but an opinion.
The process for choosing products for review needs to be revamped. It puts Stereophile in a very bad light. While, for the most part, the products in the magazine represent a wide range of manufacturers, from Rogue to Blue Circle to Burmester to NHT, the overexposure of a small group of manufacturers eclipses the good work you are doing. I believe that the criticism and desperation most express regarding the choices of some reviewers, Sam Tellig in particular, is warranted, and will become increasingly damaging to Stereophile. The magazine's reputation has already been hurt to a great extent.
The number of Musical Fidelity components which have been covered in the past few years opens the magazine up to many issues, ranging from criticism to questions of what kind of relationship exists between the people at MF and Stereophile.
My solution would be limit to two reviews for any manufacturer within a 12 month period. It would be easy to implement, and restore credibility to Stereophile. In addition, it would provide the readership with a larger cross section of brands in the marketplace.
To a lesser extent, I also believe that reviewers should encounter a broader range of equipment to avoid the kind of rut that J10 got into. Paul Bolin is basically in the same boat. Everyone should be exposed to as many facets of the industry as possible. I believe that would provide a better frame of reference in rating equipment. Again, I don't feel this is as critical as addressing my first issue, but should be considered for the long term betterment of the magazine.
Have a great weekend!
Joe
Can you be more adult in your posting. Not evertone may know your particular gripes or whoes who in that mag. Personally you can take most of these reviewers and put them in the same level of criticism.None are very special.
Give him a raise and a pat on the back for a job well done.
Can you fire him? Maybe.
Should you fire him?
Not if you want to help your magazine survive!
"That's it! I've had enough! You may cancel J. Gorden Holt's subscription immediately."Is this really Bagsgroove or Musicmike or bwkendall in disguise?
If you can't stand the water then you shouldn't go swimming. Nice to see a little life in the rag. I was getting pretty bored of late.
Enjoy,
Bob
And you were rather close. Bagsy, MM and bedubya are e-friends of mine (so to speak) :-)
~~b
I stand humbly before you ... and your succinct wit.Enjoy,
Bob
:-)
~~b
Gang,First just because I make SET equipment you proabably think I am good buds with Art. Actually I am pretty sure Art hates me, because I am so critical on certain things. Funny thing... Art actually sent me an eMail intented for John Atkinson ounce where he basically said that.
So why do I think we should give Art more room. Easy... He is the only one who is writing true to his passion of this industry. If you took the rest of the Stereophile staff and added it up, it might make half of the talent that Art has in his writing ability, wit and background of Audio.
I agree with the people below... John give Art a big raise just too keep him around and strengthen the back bone of the magazine.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
...by Dudley to avoid actually writing anything of substance on audio. And it seems to have worked ;-)).Keep it up, Artie!!!! But next month, can we have a review of, say, an affordable integrated amp, or a nice phono cart, thrown in between all those cracks about Monica, Bill and NPR?
More like a solid gold leftist plot.
N/T
And I haven't even read the March column.se
Fa fa fa fa fire him! You arid dung bowl you.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
nt
The replies you get will be directly proportionate to the weight of your silly little post - light and substanceless.Do us all a favor.....stop reading the damn thing and shut up!!!
.
He is always a fun read.And right - it is just a magazine. Laugh a little, you might have fun too.
...it's the most entertaining column in the mag.
That was the most fun I've had (reading an article) in years. I imagine he had fun writing it too. Art is a masterful troller.Ben
nt
My speaker building site
NT
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