![]() ![]() |
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
108.234.77.201
In Reply to: RE: "There is certainly no objective measure for it." posted by mlsstl on February 21, 2024 at 06:57:27
Exactly. Nice post. I still haven't seen a spec sheet that tells one how a product images or soundstages and IMHO that's exactly why one needs to listen.
Cut to razor sounding violins
Follow Ups:
No, Feanor thinks that is a fake effect due to distortion...that is why an ultra low distortion DAC like the Topping D90se has shallow soundstage...because it is so perfect.
It is possible to produce, (at reasonable cost), a component with essentially zero distortion, impedance, tolerance, etc. Why we suspect that it would filter out "soundstage" information at the same time it delivers unprecedented detail and transparency?
It's as I can understand that accept that what we like by preference is actually not as accurate to source as it might be.
![]()
Dmitri Shostakovich
Why would you assume other components "create" soundstage...particularly as it varies from recording to recording and SOUNDS like a different space with the best gear that preserve this information?
If the soundstage being perceived was always the same then one could argue that it is manufactured (like turning on the reverb dial in the studio). But the best gear preserves a different soundstage and venue with each recording, from a very dry and up front studio recording...or one where it is obvious that soundstage information was added in the mixing process to large natural indoor spaces like a large church.
A DAC where the soundstage is notably truncated compared to others is either taking something away or adding something that affects depth perception both of the stage depth and image dimensionality (rather than images sounding flat).
Yikes. I don't understand how one can think soundstage is fake. Maybe we should just listen in mono to one speaker then? And here I was trying to get the best stereo image I could. Damn magnepans with their 3d sound got me sold on fake.
But I think Feanor listens to Classical right?? Isn't image and soundstage like vital for that? I bet you I have everybit the classical collection he does (yeah I ripped 3000 classical discs for a client and I have a back up hd of them somewhere) and isn't the soundstage of each performance like one of the main things? Each hall is different? Is that not captured on recordings??? Good thing I don't listen to classical because my head would explode at the vital but fake imaging.
And as someone posted on these boards, "its all fake" so pick the version of fake you like...
![]()
Cut to razor sounding violins
We're not talking about the soundstage of a stereo system comprised of recording, listening room, speaker placement, and all the reproduction change components.
We're talking about the supposed soundstage created by a single component, versus some other, substitute component.
![]()
Dmitri Shostakovich
Its clear that an individual component in the context of a system can affect the soundstage and imaging in some way but its all in the context of a system. If your speakers don't image will or aren't setup up to image well, how good your dac is probably wont matter too much. If you honestly believe that you can hear one component in a chain you are deluded.
Maybe in the context of the same system, swapping out one component for another can give you a comparison in that system, but it doesn't tell you anything about how those components will behave in another system.
And am I missing something? You are calling me confused about the sort of soundstage being discussed, and yet your ASR holy grail doesn't even measure anything about the soundstage, let alone compare any of its dacs directly in terms of soundstage? And you think it is fake? And somehow I am confused?
![]()
Cut to razor sounding violins
I disagree that how a component performs in a system doesn't tell you anything about how it performs in other systems. This might be true for something like a low powered SET when you put it on a 98dB speaker vs. an 85dB low impedance speaker. But a DAC will maintain it's effect on different systems. As someone who brings things over to other systems I have found the character of sources especially is pretty portable. Are they EXACTLY the same in terms of effect and magnitude? No, but the main traits are preserved.
Read his arguments above. Basically the truncated soundstage of at least some of these perfect sounding DACs is to him the truth and when a DAC is showing more soundstage depth and more 3d imaging that this is some kind of trickery or "fake" and an artifact of distortion.
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: