Digital Drive

RE: Actually a Bit too Much BS from PS Audio

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morricab

D

In Reply to: RE: Actually a Bit too Much BS from PS Audio posted by Mel on September 29, 2023 at 09:06:24

I think the first company to do the multiple DACs was Accuphase back in the early 90s.

They had multi-multibit (MMB) where they used I think up to 16 BB PCM63K 20bit ladder DACs per channel.

Later they went to multi-delta/sigma (MDS) where they used multiple chips...this is more like what people are doing now with the ESS chips.

Aries Cerat still uses 18bit R2R chips (AD1865N) in multiples...I think the top model has 16 chips and that is a dual DAC chip for a total of 32 DACs in parallel per channel...it reduces noise and increases dynamics significantly.

Follow Ups:

RE: Actually a Bit too Much BS from PS Audio - AbeCollins 05:55:08 10/02/23 (1)
My 1990's era Accuphase DP-65V CDP had multiple D/A chips but it's not clear if it used 4 chips per channel or 4 chips per 2-channels. I believe other Accuphase may have used even more. I purchased the DP-65V when it was already almost 10 years old.
My Cary 306/200 CDP used 8 D/A chips.
These were two of my favorite CDP's with the older Accuphase winning out by a slim margin. The Accuphase was just tiny bit more transparent. I sold the Cary and then eventually sold the Accuphase just a couple years ago.

The bottom CDP is a 5-disc Sony ES CD changer / burner for making audio CDs. I made several
"mix CD's" back then and played 5 discs in random track mode. Also played the burned CD's in
my car instead of the originals.
- Accuphase DP-65V Tech Marketing PDF sheet (Open in New Window)
Edits: 10/02/23 10/02/23 10/02/23
- RE: Actually a Bit too Much BS from PS Audio - morricab 07:13:57 10/02/23 (0)
  It was 4 per channel.
  
  The king from Accuphase was the DC-91:
  
  https://www.stereophile.com/content/accuphase-dp-90-cd-transport-dc-91-da-processor
  
  It used 16 PCM63Ks (an all-time great 20bit chip) per channel!
  
  Aries Cerat does something similar but with tube output:
  
  https://aries-cerat.com/kassandra-ii-reference-product-page/
RE: Actually a Bit too Much BS from PS Audio - Mel 09:44:06 10/01/23 (1)
I'm not too familiar with old Accuphases, and don't know which you are referring to. But in any event, chips of that day were likely to be two channel. With chips like the two ES9018 chips in my old Oppo 105, a single chip was already comprised of 8 DACs. One was used to provide 4 channels in each of two sides. The other was in a section serving an 8 channel surround system.

IIRC an advantage of 2 ES9038pro chips (8 DACS per side) over one was said to be a noise reduction of 3db. I think you wouold have to go to 4 chips (16 DACs per side) to get another 3db, then 8 chips and so on.

A $60k Aires uses 20 R2R chips, 10 to a side yielding 20 DACs per side. What you actually get from the 19th and 20th DAC on a side would be an interesting speculation.
- RE: Actually a Bit too Much BS from PS Audio - morricab 07:15:55 10/02/23 (0)
  The less expensive AC Kassandra ref has 16 per channel:
  
  https://aries-cerat.com/kassandra-ii-reference-product-page/
  
  The Accuphase max was the Accuphase DC-91... one of the great DACs from the past.

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