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In Reply to: RE: You have provided evidence of nothing! posted by gusser on April 22, 2019 at 11:06:01
Anectodotal evidence is evidence......
Murderers go to jail... yes, - piled up anectodotal evidence.
I have compared an isoRegen with it in place, and with it out. I have compared it with 3 different sources. I have listened to and compared to 4 different of John's sources, both in my systems and in others.
There you go, - see above.....
""What I am saying is the application of these products by Uptone Audio and Empirical Audio are taking a legitimate engineering problem way out of context to sell unnecessary products""
What is the engineering "problem?" please be specific. Your statement makes the "claim" that these products are unnecessary. How do you know? How have you applied these products in this context? I am glad that you have finally admitted that these "types" of products applied elsewhere, - (like the medical industry), - are very effective. So, - if they are effective in the medical industry, - why not experiment further with them and TRY them in another area?
This is what HUNDREDS of audiophiles have found. They have bought these cheap little USB boxes that have been very effective in Galvanic Isolation in the medical industry, - deploying them in their USB chain has improved the overall sound in their system.
""Show me proof of improvement on a typical home HiFi system.""
Nope, - you show me proof. You are the one making the claim. Intona, for example, is making the claim that these provide galvanic isolation in the USB chain.
""typical home HiFi system"
That depends on what you mean by typical hi-fi system. Most of the posters here are talking about a high-performance hi-fi system. I don't call that typical. I call a Sony/NHT floor standers, a typical hi-fi system, - where no one would ever buy an Intona or a isoRegen as they cost more than their CD player.......
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Follow Ups:
"Intona, for example, is making the claim that these provide galvanic isolation in the USB chain."And they do. That is an accurate claim.
Now what about the claim that it improves audio reproduction. How exactly does it do that. What is the attribute it is improving on. What is the particular distortion it is reducing? Than can all be measured and quantified. But they, the audio specific vendors, all fail to show it. Why?
Edits: 04/22/19 04/22/19
""And they do. That is an accurate claim.""
Whew.... that took like 20 posts.....
""Now what about the claim that it improves audio reproduction."
That's not the claim: what you wrote above is untrue.
"What is the particular distortion it is reducing?"
See above, - it is not reducing any.
""Than can all be measured and quantified"
Yes, - it is, and it does, - after all, - (now get this), it is an USB signal.
""But they, the audio specific vendors, all fail to show it.""
Also, - untrue. They demonstrate it clearly.
Thank you for playing....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I pointed out way back these the engineering terms used by these audio vendors are legitimate. It didn't take 20 posts. But it remains fact there is no published test data that proves effectiveness in audio reproduction.
That fact that you "hear it" is proof to you but no one else. That's why we measure any technology by science and mathematics.
If Uptone or Empirical audio could show evidence of audio improvement don't you think they would? What is the downside to that. The fcat is they can't because it's not there.
"But it remains fact there is no published test data that proves effectiveness in audio reproduction."
But there is in the medical industry....
And that is the same claim made, - that it provides galvanic isolation.
And it may POSSIBLY work in audio reproduction....
It is not universalizable. Like the great Ayre company does, this isolation is provided in the DAC itself, - so the effectiveness of the Intona may be mitigated due to that fact. Also, - of course, - low performance audio reproduction will not benefit as well.
""That's why we measure any technology by science and mathematics.""
First, - these devices are measured, - the noise level is measured and reduced. Second, - just because that is the case, - whether that noise reduction makes it's way into the sound that comes out of the speakers is not certain. Do we really need to go over why?
And again, - we take this back to the point of making measurements: in that the measurements we have now do NOT ACCURATELY reflect the efficacy of the product, - that's why we use other tools to judge!!!
""If Uptone or Empirical audio could show evidence of audio improvement don't you think they would?""
It's up to the listener to properly apply: see above. The evidence has been demonstrated by the comparative listening done by the testers.
Uptone or Intona or Audioquest don't know what their devices are going to be used with. The recognize that there will be a difference if their devices are used with MacMini's or Sonore's ultraRendu. They will behave differently, - and they will behave much differently with a MacMini and a Meitner than they with a MacMini and Sony piece-of-junk.
"" What is the downside to that. The fcat is they can't because it's not there.""
Again, they have, they've gone through extensive testing. And with many of their products, - before they ship, they are well tested and used.
As I said they do publish their measurements. These are easily found on the interwebs. But again, these things don't keep planes in the air. They are made to possibly improve the listening experience, - and they're so ridiculously cheap, - and of such great value, - try it, - then sell it if you're not running a noisy computer.
In any case, - John's is developing a much more comprehensive set of measuring tools that will be MORE REFLECTIVE of performance. Those will be out soon. And then you will be presented with more evidence that you will close your mind too and stomp around shout about angrily.....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
"But there is in the medical industry....
And that is the same claim made, - that it provides galvanic isolation.
And it may POSSIBLY work in audio reproduction...."
Galvanic isolation again? Do you know why that is done in the medical industry? It has nothing to do with signal integrity. It's for safety! Study UL60601-1.
Again you are just regurgitating what you read in audiophile magazines.
Talk about appeal to authority! How about appealing to the right authority! Not some consumer audio magazine!
LOL
Your post is just hilarious in its level of ignorance...
""It's for safety! Study UL60601-1.""
of course it is, as are the ENO RJ-45 isolators in networking....
"" It has nothing to do with signal integrity.""
Of course not!! And i never said it did.
""Again you are just regurgitating what you read in audiophile magazines. ""
Why would you assume that my statements about the Intona would come from audio magazines that I do not have or read?
HOW many times do I need to spell it out for you??? I AM TESTING THE PRODUCTS, I HAVE DIRECT EXPERIENCE and anecdotal evidence of their efficacy
""Talk about appeal to authority""
LOL, - how is testing for myself appealing to authority? Explain it to me please? If you'd like, - I can help you with logic, deductive statements, reason, formulating arguments...
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
A home audiophile?
The best to judge the effectiveness of the equipment.....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
z
You? Obviously not.....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
You are making a fool of your self. Just look at my video. Do you run an active crossover system? Try that for starters.
I am not going to watch your video.....
""You are making a fool of your self""
nothing compared to just about all the posts you've made here.
I was asking about your system cause I didn't know what it was made up of, - because, - again, - you're making judgements about something that you know nothing about.
You can see all of the details in my system easily by clicking on the A.
I hope that things get better for you, carrying all this vitriol must get pretty heavy after a fashion...
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
+10 enough close-minded vitriol.
Bi-wired right? I see dual cables going to that speaker! I don't see multiple power amps so that rules out true active biamping?What's with the old utility pole insulators under the speaker cables? Art statement? That's fine. But I hope you don't think they provide any technical benefit! If so please explain how a wood floor against a fractional amp output impedance has any significant capacitance effects. At that low of an impedance even a steel conduit that length would have negligible effects.
Edits: 04/22/19
Then don't watch it. That doesn't change the facts presented within which are still on public display.
And I sincerely doubt anybody watching that would consider the author a fool except perhaps another fool.
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