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In Reply to: RE: Outboard USB/SPDIF Conversion: Why Can It Yield Higher Sound Quality? posted by Mister Pig on April 14, 2019 at 08:10:47
There are two primary issues effecting the 'sound' of digital audio interfaces. Jitter and noise transfer. I think it's pretty much a certainty that any difference in sound due to inserting an USB-to-SPDIF converter is due to differences in jitter and/or noise transfer. USB is an notoriously poor audio interface for jitter - unless it is asynchronous transfer USB. It is poor for noise transfer, whether or not asynchronous transfer is employed.
So, yes, it's quite possible that your outboard converter is delivering a lower jitter, lower noise signal transfer.
_
Ken Newton
Follow Ups:
OP does not say how OLD said '$6000 MSRP' DAC might be.
As the Singxer is merely an external USB > I2S converter (XMOS?). Guessing any modern DAC should have a decent USB > I2S built into it, powered by the DAC's linear supply and with really good clocks, etc?
Even my $2200 MSRP, plus shipping from the main land, Audio-GD Master 7 has an AMANERO USB > I2S board powered by a linear supply within the DAC that is very good. Maybe the secret is the clocks on the board, plus lots of extra capacitors plus the fact that the Audio-GD DAC is 25 lbs. and most of that is power supply (three each).
Who knows?
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The DAC is a current production model, but since I need to determine the final outcome of it, and possibly arrange a return of it, I prefer not to make a big fuss about it at the moment. But its not a 10 year old piece, and its not an Ebay Chinese DAC that is sold under half a dozen names.
This morning I reset it to the USB input, removing the Singxer and I have the same SQ disparity. The unit is broken in.
The PS Audio LANRover requires 2 USB cables, and I have a pair of Wireworld Starlight 7 for that, and the cable between the two boxes is the Wireworld Starlight CAT 8. Power cord is from Pi Audio Group.
As far as clocking this DAC is asynchronous.
Perhaps I can see the Singxer SU1 having a separate and heavily regulated power supply from the DAC being a difference, but it would surprise me that its enough of a difference to counterbalance having another digital cable in place. Yet even this morning, I find the outboard USB conversion option being superior to a direct feed of USB from the LANRover.
Perhaps I should just accept it as what it is. But I would have thought the less complicated solution would be preferable. Apparently I was wrong.
Cheers
Mister Pig
1. Good, clean, external, DC power supply.
2. USB galvanic isolation.
3. Regenerated, single port, reclocked USB signal.
The PS Audio LanRover is a very good device for galvanic isolation, regenerating the isochronous USB signal.
The SU-1 has a noisy power supply, - many folks have either modded the SU-1 to use a much better external DC supply, - or just purchased the F-1 version of SU-1 which performs much better.
But if your Mac Mini is anywhere near your audio rack, - (One of the more important aspects of the LanRover is to get your noisy {multifunction} computer away from the audio rack), - it's not going to be as effective as using it as a layer 3 USB extender.
I think that other folks speculating about your DAC is a good start. When I read these exchanges, - I am curious about where your computer is, and what's going on with your power, and specifically, - if you have SMPSs sending noise back into your mains.
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
The system sits in a Geneva credenza built by Salamander. The DAC and amplifier are at one far end, the computer sits in the farthest bay away from it, and that side also holds a PS Audio P10 AC Regenerator. The Singxer sits behind the cabinet, on the side the DAC is. Power cords are from PI Audio Group. The cabling for the LANRover runs underneath the cabinet, with speaker and interconnects routed behind the cabinet.
The thing is the previous DAC I have owned sounds great in the same arrangement that I now have, as I simply replaced one DAC with the other. Also, if the Singxer is noisy enough to be a detriment, then the on board USB conversion is a travesty, because it sounds no where as good as the stand alone conversion system.
I decided to exercise my return privileges, and this is something that I never do. I figure a DAC of this price, being current production, should not have these issues. Even if its just at my place, however, a search turned up cases of other owners having some of these same issues, and if I would have known this going in I would not have made this purchase. My solution is to scrub the slate clean and return to where I was, and decide if there is indeed a way to obtain meaningful improvement in digital playback, or stand pat as I do enjoy the playback quality I have from my previous DAC.
Cheers
Mister Pig
Yeah,
Sounds like you made a wise move, - at least as I see it. :-)
Running your MAc Mini with a PSAudio power plant is a good call.
I recently moved from the F-1 to the Gustard U16, - which was a major step up in performance over the F-1. But in my system, - I am forced to use an USB to SPDIF (rca coax) converter.
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Like my Audio-GD or even better, a DENAFRIPS, you wouldn't be having these problems.
And it seems your mail-order Chinese Singxer USB > I2S converter box is HELPING!
Good luck.
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