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nt
Follow Ups:
Marja and Henk, apparently have some liberal arts education (if any education at all). These reasoning that "CD is not really digital" is rather hilarious. Of course, from that point on the whole review goes down the drain. Duh ...
Awww... c'mon guys, back off a little, I think you guys are just missing the 'r' in '6moons'...... ;-)
Sadly a pretty worthless review in my opinion, particularly as the Network Bridge was not featured, although on the positive side, what fabulous photos! Why does Stereophile offer such poor, or virtually non-existant photography in their reviews?Without the innovative and unique Network Bridge, the PWD has little advantage over other good modern DACs, particularly as very few buyers will purchase both the PWT and PWD as $6000 CDPs are a thing of the past, however good they may be.
And why did the reviewer not comment on the inadaquacy of the supplied remote control and the uselessness of that costly front panel touch screen that no one is actually likely to use?
And did the reviewer properly assess the quality of the variable output volume feature? In fact I don't think he even mentioned it! In this day and age, anyone with only digital sources (most of us apart from vinyl users) should not be needing an analogue preamp in his system, so we need to know how good this feature is. Surely a good DAC should do the job preamps used to be needed for - selecting source and adjusting volume. I would hope PS Audio have included a good volume control in the PWD's analogue section
I'm a serious potential buyer of the PWD, but won't do so until I read a proper review of its capabilities when connected to a NAS via the Bridge.
If we have much longer to wait for the Bridge and a proper remote controller, someone else will put a similar product on the market that will certainly be cheaper because they won't include that daft and expensive front-panel screen!
I feel for PS Audio, I really do - they've designed the perfect DAC, but unfortunately on paper, rather than in the real world. Who wants to get up from their listening chair to prod buttons on the front panel, or to have to use binoculars to see what they're listening to? And who wants to pay for this worthless feature? And who doesn't want a properly designed remote controller with touch screen to make browsing and selecting music from their music library a pleasure from their listening chair? And no, we don't want to be fobbed off with an app for an iPod! Otherwise - perfect - they've thought of everything!
Peter
Edits: 12/13/09 12/13/09 12/13/09 12/13/09 12/13/09
On earth, there are many CD players over $6,000. In fact that might be a good place to draw the line between lo-fi and mid-fi.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
You jest, my friend? 10 years ago there were dozens of hugely expensive CDPs on the market and some manufacturers actually sold them in reasonable numbers. Not now. There are still several on offer, but how many are recent designs? And how many actually find new buyers? Very, very few, I would suggest. Any why? There are betters ways to store and distribute music digitally than on CDs. More and more people are storing their music on hard drives and although most use Mickey Mouse PC systems to process these stored files, there are other far better and easier ways of getting the files processed and sounding as good or better than from $6000 CDPs. That’s why Linn for example are getting out of CDP building altogether – they sadly have no future in high-end systems.
As soon as the burned CDs start deteriorating people will scream bloody murder. They already are.
$6,000 is a lot of money. You get what you pay for.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
Yes there certainly is a problem with burned CDs - there's an active thead on the subject right now. But I'm not even considering burned CDs. Storing on hard drives (with backups) is preferable to any CD format and is surely the future medium for home stored music, even if people still buy CDs to load into their hard drive systems, leaving the original CD in safe storage.
Peter
That's just about as frivolous as $6000 CDPs being thing of the past...
> > On earth, there are many CD players over $6,000. In fact that might be
> > a good place to draw the line between lo-fi and mid-fi.
I trust that is a jest...
d
I've been checking the 6moons website for weeks, usually twice a day, because I was hoping to get a really good description of how the PWT and PWD sound. 6moons is supposedly an audiophile webzine, so it would not be unreasonable to expect a fairly detailed description of the sound, right? Apparently a very wrong expectation. Very, very disappointed in the quality of the review.
I couldn't agree more. Very poorly done/written review. The first 3/4 of the review was nothing more than regurgitation of PS Audio's marketing material. You would have thought that Srajan would have been the one reviewing such a break through product. Then again, he would surely mentioned every product that advertises on his site in the review.
Reinforces my basic opinion of the site -- not enough time spent editing. Sometimes -- perhaps often -- the reviews could stand to have things taken out. Other times -- and this is a good example -- reviews could stand to have more information put in (and less of the manufacturer's info. about "how it works.")
The product sounds like it deserved a better and more thorough treatment . . . and some would disagree with PS Audio's self-serving statement (on its website) that SACD is "dead."
Perhaps the bigger question that should be asked is this: is digital audio, as delivered on a physical product (i.e. a disc) dead? If it is, then the $3000 transport doesn't have much of a future, if people are going to store their digital audio on a big hard drive or have it streaming from the Internet. They can certainly use Exact Audio Copy to copy their CDs, bit-perfect, on to the hard drive.
So, an outboard DAC that runs off of the available computer outputs (USB, firewire) would seem to be the more future-oriented product. The PS Audio DAC and its unreviewed "network bridge" seem more interesting to me, since they have that purpose.
I am at work, and do not have the issue in front of me, but I think it is John Ambercrombie who discusses this issue in the current Downbeat. CD is not dead, although its sales have diminished. My belief is that CD will be alive and well among people who grew up with CD, and are probably too old, or uninterested, like me, in music via their computers. I am not about to hire a secretary to help me with computer issues at home. I already pay for one at work.
CDs will probably die when we leave the planet, and those growing up now will want their music over the net because that is how they are accustomed to getting their music. CDs will be dead when new material is not available in that medium, and I think that day is far into the future.
Hi James,
Great post! I totally agree. The last thing I want to do when I come home from work and want to relax with my hi-fi is screw around with another computer. As we have seen with vinyl, once an individual invests a lot of time any money on a medium they will stick with it until it breaks or they are forced to switch. For example; as good as blu-ray is, I don't think DVD's will die any time soon either.
I agree too and yes, the prospect of messing around with a PC for music is unnecessary and abhorrent to me. However, despite my age (just picking up my pension), I accept that hard drive audio (as opposed to computer audio) has benefits. There is potentially a better sound quality and, more significantly, there is the convenience of having hundreds of CDs stored on a hard drive and instantly available from a remote control with search facilities and a screen to show the CD artwork and track details.
If I dare to mention this on the PC Audio forum I get a dozen nerdy computer anoraks saying that a PC or Mac is the way to go. I hate the notion of computers for music, in the same way I wouldn't use a computer to watch TV, but I recently put all my CDs onto a hard drive device and I'm delighted with the ease of access and the complete absence of a computer and its associated hardware "junk" and that really nasty stuff - software.
I use a device called a RipNAS. Its essentially a hard drive with a CD reader built in, connected to your home network and a Sonos (or one of its rivals) to control the system and extract the music and deliver it to a DAC. It needs no computer, monitor or anything else, and it has built-in software so it works right out of the box. The ripping process is so simple - you post each CD into the slot, wait for 4-5 minutes, then put in the next one. During this time, RipNAS identifies the CD, looks up it on the internet and stores the track details, artwork and precise bit count that should be on the CD. It reads the CD multiple times if necessary to record a bit-perfect copy that it saves on the hard drive. You can set it up for WAV or FLAC lossless files, or use grotty MP3.
To play back your music, the Sonos controller is a hand-held device with a touch screen that can be used to select or search for music by composer, genre, artist, etc. It shows you the CD cover artwork as it plays, together with track details. It's really rather brilliant, dead easy, even for use geriatric computer-haters like myself and it sounds excellent, with a serious potential upgrade path using a new product that does the jobs of the Sonos and a DAC, but very much better.
I still buy CDs (I’ve never downloaded music) and will continue to do so, but I rip them straight to RipNAS and put them back in their jewel cases to use possibly in my car, or to loan to children.
Peter
Peter
Hi Peter,
The RipNas looks very interesting. I've never heard of this product before. Seven terabytes of available hard drive storage is heck of a lot. I will look into it. By the way, I agree with your criticisms of the 6moons PS Audio PWT review. I'm a little surprised that the review was released as is.
Eric
Hi Bruce,
A lot of people including myself are a little critical of 6moons. IMHO, Srajan's writing style has a lot "fluff". He often goes too far with his comparisons and descriptions. Sometimes I think he does this to constantly include/mention advertisers in reviews. Although, I think he has gotten better over the years. On the positive note,6moons is free, has excellent photos and reviews esoteric gear not reviewed elsewhere.
A buddy of mine has the PS Audio PWT combo. As a cd-player it sounds excellent. Another webzine named Dagogo (sp?) did a much better job in reviewing the PSA Audio combo. I think Peter made some good points in his post about the 6moons review. Specifically, the review did not mention or talk about the variable output (preamp) feature, the inadequate remote, the lack of a touch screen remote, and the usefulness of the expensive front panel that is very hard to see at a distance. These were all issues at my buddy's house who owns the PS Audio PWT combo.
Is digital audio, as delivered on a physical product (i.e. a disc) dead? I don't think so. Heck, vinyl's still not dead. I think a certain segment of audiophiles will gravitate to storing their digital audio on a big hard drive or have it streaming from the Internet, but many including myself will not. Some of us think that CD's played on great system can sound very good and satisfying. I don't think anything created nowadays can be entirely future-proof. You'd have to have a very good crystal ball for that.
nt
Yes, I was wrong it was actually reviewed by stereomojo, Who can keep track track of all these webzines. Thy seem to be perpetually popping-up like cable companies.
M&H are holding on to the review loaners until the Bridge is released. At that time they plan to focus on the DAC's performance now that the first part of the review has painted the necessary background to understand a memory player's different approach to the conventional read-once-in-real-time scheme of standard players.
Re: comparisons, readers ask for them so we do them based on what each reviewer has on hand - which at times is a good match on price and features, at other times not. But that's the breaks if you don't own an audio store.
The ad angle is complete crap as usual. I happen to have bought multiples of everything specifically to conduct comparisons and to have instant access to something at different price points and technologies. If the makers of some of those pieces happen to also be advertisers, that's completely irrelevant to the data such comparisons generate to establish broader context for the reader.
So, this was part 1 of the review and not an all-encompassing final review. That was not made clear in the review and a rather curious omission. Why does 6moons have to wait for the bridge to arrive to comment on the variable output (preamp) feature, the inadequate supplied remote, the lack of a touch screen remote, and the usefulness of the expensive front panel that is impossible to see at a distance? The review already talked about the DAC's performance.
The 6moons PS Audio PWT review was poorly done. If you don’t want to be criticized you’re going to have to put out a much better product. Years ago, I thought 6moons was on to something with their attempt to find lower-priced alternatives. As far as I’m concerned, 6moons has gone downhill over the last several years. I suspect being a nomad has taken its toll.
My biggest beef is, as usual, lack of meaningful comparisons. CEC TL-5100 is NOT very good transport, and non-oversampling Audio Note DAC of unspecified, and most likely lower end (DAC Zero?), model is hardly appropriate subject for comparison as well.
Regarding equipment itself - I think it's a mistake not to include video out for PWD, especially considering that there's no remote with a display, and no software (yet) to control it from PDA. Also, upcoming Bridge seemingly does not include digital out of any kind, so you won't be able to use PWD as Ethernet device supplying output to superior DAC (no big deal, since that wouldn't be cost-effective anyway).
Still, I would be interested in auditioning - but only when Bridge becomes available.
look up the back issue (Aug09) of HFN. Very good review.
Despite 64MB of FIFO buffer, I2S and spdif sound 'different'
I must say I didn't think much of the HFN review either. OK it said it was a good transport (if anyone wants one these days) and a good DAC, but, like the 6moons review failed to concentrate (or even mention) its unique or special features. In particular the Network Bridge that will allow users to get their computers out of their systems (using just a NAS instead) and also to get rid of their analogue preamps (apart from vinyl users). These are what makes the PWD so special. They also hardly mentioned the inadaquacy of the supplied remote, or the daftness of the front panel touch screen!
Peter
Agreed.
I didn't care for the absurd CD tutorial or whatever it was nor the drooling fanboy tone of the whole thing.
Rick
Using a $15 Asus drive on a $6000 two box player that misreads discs and "sounds like a chainsaw on certain discs" sounds like a particularly inappropriate choice. Did the designer think that this would increase their profits or that a chitzy drive didn't make any difference? What sort of company releases a Beta product? What sort of reviewer promotes a Beta product with such enthusiasm?
The free 2496 Bach download from LessLoss referreed to is a joke. It is a simple 59 MB piano piece and barely long enough to be heard properly!
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