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In Reply to: RE: Professionals in a given field may be more qualitied to teach that subject than a "professional teacher" posted by Brian H P on August 13, 2014 at 12:44:48
Well I don't live in the U.S. Becoming a teacher in British Columbia Canada is far more rigorous than the U.S. I am told. (and it may be a State to State issue than a U.S. issue I am not sure).But in Canada if you want to teach High School Biology then you need to hold a full 4 year 120 credit B.Sc degree in Biology in order to teach Biology. Ditto Chemistry or Physics or Math. To teach English or Social Studies you need a 4 year B.A in English or History/Geography. They soften that a bit if it's a complimentary field like if you have a History major English minor you may teach English. They will also take people with language intensive degrees like Philosophy or Liberal Studies.
This applies to grades 10-11-12. A P.E. teacher with an arts minor may very well get socials 8-9 or English 8-9. But unless there are no teachers they should be hiring trained sunject teachers. And yes to teach P.E. you need a physical education degree - it too will run 5.5 years. If they don't hire the right people that is management/governmental problems not the teacher's fault or the union's fault.
Knowing a lot about a subject and being an effective teacher however is not the same thing. It is entirely possible to learn FAR MORE from a teacher who is just steps ahead of the students in the material than someone with a PHD in the field but is a boring lifeless arrogant drip.
Teaching is not the same as lecturing at a university. Lecturing isn't teaching and indeed HS teachers in Canada generally get paid more than University professors. Man I wish I could just deliver the material in an entertaining way. The teachers in BC not only have to have a specialized degree in an actual subject (even if teaching Kindergarten) they also have to have a bunch of other courses.
Another 1.5 years on top of the BA teaching them how to actually teach as well as subjects like educational theory from math, to literacy, to philosophy, to discipline, special needs, psychology, professionalism, anger management, dealing with parents, educational report writing, stress management, linguistics, Physical Education, Second language learning, and of course computer programs from smart boards to legalities of copyright etc.
So in Canada you have to have a 5.5 year dual degree. K-12. And to get in to the education field you have to hold an A-(3.70 GPA) average or better through your BA or B.Sc
In my case I did a concurrent degree program where I did both my education degree and B.A. at the same time. This gave me more practicum experience and allows me to teach K-12 instead of choosing between High School and elementary school. I also had a bunch of Business Credits to lighten my load because I worked in Accounting for 8 years and had half a business degree. I'm 9 credits away from a triple minor. Cause that's kinda how crazy I am.
Anyway, this gave me 4 practicums.
Each year the student teacher is given a grade. And you work with the classroom teacher to deliver lessons. Maybe one 45 min lesson a day to start.
This grows to teaching half days to 3-4 weeks where I had to teach 80-100%. You write a fourish page lesson plan for each lesson each day. Elementary is harder in this regard because I had to write one for say Science, English, Socials, P.E. and Art each day. So about 20-24 pages a day. Describing what you will say, what the students should be doing, and have two portions dedicated to weaker and better students (Adaptations and Extensions) and how you will compensate and deliver the lesson to them.
For instance i had prepare "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe" for the class as a novel study but because 2 kids were Jehovah Witness I had to do a totally different book for them.
So if you have a set of ten questions did you make another set of ten for the weaker kids and another set of 10 for the gifted kids.Then the class teacher sits in the back and writes an evaluation, the school principal does one, and evaluator from the university (who is usually an ex principal or superintendent.
And I did this for grade 7, grade 2, grade 10-12, grade 4. And each of those practicums has three different evaluators. So 12 people over 3 years evaluate us and determine if we're good beginning teachers.
It's kind of intense. I would not say the work is insanely difficult - but it is a LOT of work and it's not that easy to continuously come up with fascinating wholly entertaining vibrant lessons over and over across all subjects.
Now you are correct that some school districts (in Canada too) will run into situations where they hire the wrong people for the job based on availability and union protectionism (hiring based on seniority over qualifications).
Your example though is different because a lot of school districts in the U.S. appear to be spending copious amounts of time in court battling over the FACT of evolution and the superstition of creationism. I would not be surprised if bricks weren't being thrown through windows of Biology teachers in certain states.
IMO creationists should not be allowed to teach. If they're this ignorant they should be nowhere near a school except in them and retaking classes.
It should lastly be pointed out that this is high school not university. So Biology or English Literature at best would be entry level university level courses. The content being taught is not nearly as rigorous.Unfortunately, in the US there is a lot of money tied to content as special interest groups (religion or companies) only provide money if certain things are taught or not taught. Education needs to be free of that sort of influence and it's actually okay for Education to NOT be run in the black. It's not meant to. But I understand a company like say a Coke that will only give their tens of thousands so long as the teachers have a gag order that never lets them say Coke is bad for you.
This is beginning in my home province in Canada as well. And the Prime Minister of our country and your former president I get the sense thinks the earth is 6000 years old. So what can you do? When people don't believe 2+2=4 and you dumb it down as much as you can - and they still insist that evolution is fake and merely a trick by the devil to test people's faith what can you do?
What you don't do is give them keys to schools or the government or sharp objects.
Edits: 08/17/14 08/17/14Follow Ups:
RGA:
With all due respect,you may be knowledgeable about teacher training and instruction in Canada; that makes good sense. However, you should own up to not knowing know your you know what from a hole in the wall about public schools in the United States.Just do experience American educators a favor and keep your hands off the key board about that subject, which includes, but is not limited to: teacher training and certification, pedagogy, curriculum, class room instruction, the impact of fundamentalist religion on curriculum and instruction, hiring and retaining teachers, or school funding. Finally, you are ignorant of the critical issues that now face public schools in the United States. So please, avoid like the plague subjects that are beyond your reach and your grasp. Stick to reviewing equipment and retelling your teaching and audio experiences abroad.
What did I say about the US Education system. I described the Canadian system and then only in British Columbia.
The person I replied to said he found a teacher with 6 credits teaching science where he believed in Creationism.
Now anyone who is NOT an utter moron would take his commentary and say gee wherever he is from seems to be handing out education degrees in Pez dispensers.
I not once said I knew the ins and outs of the US education system - anyone who isn't a total and utter moron would know this.
My comments are about where I am from - and anyone who isn't an utter moron read where I specifically noted such.
lord addleford,
There's no way that the smug opinionated RGA is going to change. As the weary old cliché goes, "a Leopard doesn't change its spots". The fool can't learn to hold his opinions (about things he obviously knows nothing about) to himself. I suggested that tactic to him about a week ago, but his latest rant only goes toward proving my point.
Perhaps the reason that he's "teaching" in Asia is that the Canadians can't stand him either.
Cheers,
Al
abs1:
I try mightily not to respond to the general flow of RGA's dribble. But, when it comes to education, a field in which I worked for thirty plus years, he has gone over the edge. The problem is that he can't control his impulses to spew forth his supposed wisdom in any domain. From time to time he makes an attempt at self deprecation, but we all know that it has no meaning and his spewing continues ad nauseam. All we can do is not respond to his drivel; regardless, ignoring him will have no effect on his output. As Kurt Vonnegut wrote, "So it goes"
la
I have several friends who have taught and have been principal for 30+ years in the Canadian education system - so which FACT did I get wrong and I will run it by them.
For someone who is a so called teacher why don't you teach instead of slagging people constantly. Have an actual case. Tell me what I said that irritates you.
If you read the first paragraph I said "(and it may be a State to State issue than a U.S. issue I am not sure).
See if you were not a total moron you would have read that I clearly state that I do not know exactly how things are run in the U.S. I have met several teachers from the United States who have told me various things about hiring standards. So what the truth about those things are I do not know - AND I SAID THAT!
Now I could tell you all the things I've been told but it is beyond the scope of this thread.
The OP noted what he saw with the educational standard of a science teacher. Now it is not being arrogant to state the Science should not be taught by guys with 6 credits of science or a guy who believes in creationism - these people are stupid and it is not arrogant to call them stupid because stupid is stupid. Willful ignorance is stupid.
So I told the OP where I am coming from with my comments and how unlike it is from the science teacher he was talking about.
I am stunned that you seem to read these conversations and never ever see the big picture point. Instead you seem to deliberately look at minutiae. Same with the PTSD fellow who out of the whole post freaks out because I got the rank wrong. I mean you have to be deliberately stupid - I am looking for the haha camera where I am being pranked.
RGA,
Perhaps you and I could meet face to face so I could personally explain all of this to you. It appears that some individuals, even teachers, can only understand what they choose to understand until they are personally shown the error of their ways.
Until then,
Al
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