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RE: AFAIK, they're referring to Clark's amlifier challenge

209.43.1.25

In Reply to: RE: AFAIK, they're referring to Clark's amlifier challenge posted by josh358 on February 11, 2011 at 08:59:38

>So far, no one's been able to beat it,<

Thanks for the link - I'll check it out. Lots of questions, such as how does anyone really know that no one has beaten it aside from Clark's assertions, how many corrects out of trials are required (Randi requires 100%, and when someone can MISS 100%, I'll believe someone can HIT 100% -lol), etc. I think most people, if pressed, would agree that amp differences are subtle, but I've witnessed them picked up blind. ABX just seems like a Houdini thing. Put enough complexity into the mix and anyone can screw up anything.

>Forced choice testing has some well-documented limitations, and even if it didn't, the experimental setups are frequently flawed.<

It's far from perfect. Complete reliance on it is absurd but it can in some cases be a good tool.

Follow Ups:

RE: AFAIK, they're referring to Clark's amlifier challenge - josh358 10:08:13 02/12/11 (0)
> It's far from perfect. Complete reliance on it is absurd but it can in some cases be a good tool.

My feeling exactly.

The problem with the Clark challenge, and IMO many other ABX tests, is that many people don't understand their limitations. This is true even when the people who conduct the tests do. So a test that shows only that audible differences aren't at the threshold that can be detected with a 95% CI in a confusing ABX test is interpreted to mean that there are no audible differences whatsoever.

I could demonstrate easily audible distortion that has a very low probability of being detected in such a test. For example, the audio chipset on my motherboard has gone south and it lets out a chirp every few days. Nothing subtle about that, but because it has a low probability of occurrence it wouldn't be detected in a practical ABX study.

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