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Just a heads up. The "pure copper" Viborg spades at the link below have some kind of non-conductive coating on them. The female threads and the set screws are not coated and are therefore conductive, so the spades will probably conduct the signal after cranking them down on your binding posts, but you're probably better off removing the coating first.Putting a clear, non-conductive coating on a spade or any other audio connector and not disclosing it is really shitty.
Edit: Added video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PnJ2YjFAag
Edits: 04/18/21Follow Ups:
All the junk is polished off down to the base copper and turned out great. I'll probably never buy these again, thought. It was way too much work.
Edits: 05/06/21
Did you sand/polish inside the tubes on the wire contact surfaces ?
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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED
Absolutely.
How do you like them after resurfacing them ?
Are they holding up ?
I have some cables to terminate.
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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED
They're just fine. I can't compare them to anything else because I only used them after removing all of the coatings.
They are holding up as well as any other unplated connector and could probably use periodic minor polishing for best performance. I don't think I ever disconnected them from the binding posts since making them, but if I did, I'd expect to see unoxidized copper where they contact the binding posts.
Thanks Ketchup.
Ordered a couple of sets of the Viborg spades and a 10 pack of 8 gauge pure copper wire lugs from Windynation (solar and battery terminations) late on the 7th. Amazon said they would arrive on Wednesday, but they arrived today (9th), 3 days earlier than predicted.
Amazon also had a checkout coupon on the Vigorgs to save @ $3 for 2 sets.
I measured both with a Fluke 337 meter (inside tube to tip of connector). Both the Viborg and the pure copper lugs measured the same. Both showed no increase resistance over the bare meter terminals. The Fluke 337 reads to 1/10th of an ohm so they don't appear to have the non-conductive coating issue.
I am terminating Canare 4S11 wire. The 8 gauge lugs will just fit 4 x 14 gauge leads of the 4S11 aggregating to 8 gauge, but not the Viborg spades.
The Viborgs will fit 2 of the 14 gauge leads aggregating to 11 gauge with a little wiggle room.
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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED
Thanks for the update.
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2022/03/30 Historical Records CENSORED
No prob. I mistyped above. I should have said:
I can't compare them to the coated versions because I only used them after removing all of the coatings.
If you use them, tighten the set screws very carefully and do it over a couple of days. Each day, you'll be able to tighten them a little more until they will not tighten further. I assume that the wire compresses over time under the set screws and needs a few tightening sessions to get to a point where there is no more compression/movement of the wires.
Those look nice. I need to do the same thing with their banana plugs.
Any wisdom as to how to "polish"? I'm thinking a dremel might do it.
Pretty easy- 320 grit wet paper then 600 grit wet paper (use water with both so it doesn't clog) then any kind of metal polish. I'm not a fan of dremels, but metal polish on one of those polishing wheels should work fine. It's just as easy to use a cotton cloth by hand.
A lot of polishes leave coatings on the metal, so make sure to clean it well after polishing with some kind of degreaser.
.
At least you now have the only set-screw termination type, truly unplated copper spade that I'm aware of.
A Furez product that now seems to be discontinued was the only previous option to choose from within the audio marketplace.
I look forward to knowing how the Viborg product that you tweaked performs in your system, ketchup.
Exactly, Duster. I seem to have a lot of one-off parts in my system. I won't be able to really say how the spades are working because I changed amplification and built new speaker cables and ICs for the new amps because of where the amps are placed in relation to the speakers and the rest of the system. All of those components went into the system at the same time.
I'm not sold on screw terminations, though (talk me out of this opinion). I noticed that after tightening, they would loosen ever so slightly over time. Before heat shrinking over the spades, every few days I gave the setscrews a little more. And I mean a little bit more. Like barely turning the allen wrench, but it was noticeable. I'm pretty sure this is due to the wire relaxing/compressing under the setscrew. I wouldn't be surprised if the spade barrel itself slightly ovals over time due to the pressure. After several days they seemed to stop needing more torque.
I'm nitpicking, but set-screwing followed by soldering might be the ultimate type of termination IMO. Does anyone do this?
A key element for a set-screw termination is the use of a copper crimp sleeve. It's what is used for proper termination of WBT speaker connectors that feature set-screws, and should be used for any other set-screw connector, for that matter. That said, even without a crimp sleeve, I would prefer a set-screw connector vs. a soldered speaker connector, and would never implement solder along with a crimped or other compression-type connector.
A soft-copper crimp sleeve is easy to implement for use with a set-screw connector, since all that is required is a light-duty crimping tool to create a trough for the set-screws to grab into, and each screw creates its own indentation to firmly secure the connector. My WBT Nextgen spades have never had an issue with loosening, and the fact that a crimp sleeve allows another modular connector to be swapped-out is a big plus.
When I bought a new amplifier with 5/16" binding posts, it was a big relief to simply swap-out 1/4" spades with 5/16" spades, and it only took minutes to get the job done.
Thanks for the alert.
I was going to recommend these Furez SP8 Bare Copper Spade Speaker Connectors, which I have had good luck with but both AV Outlet and Douglas Connection appear to be out of them. Hopefully just a temporary COVID thing since they worked well for me.
Unfortunately, the Furez SP8-SB60NP is discontinued which is too bad, since it's the only truly unplated copper set-screw termination type spade I've come across.
AV Outlet website indicates:
-snip-
Not Available
This product is no longer available. It is either discontinued or not currently available.
-snip
Hoping this is a temporary production delay due to COVID and not a full discontinuation of the product. Thankfully, I still have a stash here for some cable projects I have not gotten around to yet. BTW, the silver plated copper version is very good too.
I started the refinishing/polishing process and have determined that there are possibly four layers on top of the copper base. This pic is about 1/4 of the way through the sanding process with 320 grit wet paper.
The image is huge, so you will have to hit Ctrl- to see the whole thing.
The copper base polishes up beautifully (pics of that later).
You guys may or not believe this, but the fourth and final spade that I polished had no nickel plating on it at all! Maybe they just changed their process, but it's pretty strange that I happened to get one that was different. It's either that or they don't have any quality control at all. I'm leaning toward the latter.
It's interesting, if that grey layer is nickel (which is likely), why they would put it over base copper. Nickel is used as a barrier layer so that the copper and the next metal layer don't form intermetallics (i.e. nickel between copper and tin). But copper over copper have no problems.
Impressive reporting, ketchup. Thanks for the detailed information. Looking forward to the final results.
But it keeps the Copper from oxidizing and in extreme cases, turning GREEN.....
Too much is never enough
This is a case of online reviews based on hearsay getting too much traction. The real story is Viborg discontinued their truly unplated products, and are now applying what they are calling a nano treatment over the copper base metal. It appears to be a layer of Rose Gold which is an alloy of gold, copper, and silver in order to avoid oxidation, and to make the prongs look bright and shiny. The new "nano treated" products do not sound like unplated copper, since the plating causes the connector to sound more like a gold-plated AC connector. To radically change a design and release it with the same model number is not a good thing to encounter in any marketplace. I have now found a superior sounding and built AC connector brand at a competitive price point that includes an unplated product line-up, so I no longer order Viborg products, with no looking back.
Keep in mind that BOTH Copper AND Silver will oxidize.....will the addition of some Gold prevent this?
I don't know.
I DO know a related item of little import to connectors, but does spring to mind. In making transistors or integrated circuits, you start with a doped silicon wafer. Silicon WILL oxiidize, and fairly quickly, in 'air'. But only to a depth of maybe 20 microns. After that? You must add plenty of energy to get a thicker film......A useful 7000 angstroms is done at 1050c and in 'steam'.....will take about 90 minutes, not counting warm-up and cool-down times....
Copper doesnt' seem to have much of a limit, and will oxizide THRU given time.....
Too much is never enough
+1
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Duster- I'm sorry, but you are mistaken and are talking about something totally different. There may be a rose gold coating (because they do have an odd color not exactly that of copper), but there is a final coating on the spades that is non-conductive. That is what my post is about. I tested them myself and the surface is not conductive. No hearsay here, just facts based on my own experience.
Did you use a solvent in order to hear if conductivity improved? This would be clear evidence that a non-conductive coating is involved. Otherwise, I don't have a dog in this hunt, since any products from Viborg are in my rear view mirror at this point. Why the Rose Gold plating would be coated with a non-conductive treatment makes no sense, but I won't question the reports anymore. If you ordered the product from Amazon, suggest returning it for a full refund, ketchup.
Could be a good title for a song. Happiness is Viborg in the rear view mirror.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
I have not tried to remove it yet. Here is clear evidence that there's a non-conductive coating on them. This is my video that I shot 5 minutes ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PnJ2YjFAag
The video would be more convincing if you touched the leads together to show conductivity
Watch again. I touched three other metal objects to show that the meter is working. What more could you want to see?
The meter reads '1' for all objects touched and even when not touching anything. What am I missing?
Listen to the beeps. Maybe your volume is turned down?
I don't need video as proof, but if you would touch one test lead inside the connector opening where the connector makes contact with the wiring, and touch the other test lead only where the spade makes contact with a binding post, we can see if there is only a non-conductive treatment where one spade could accidentally make contact with the other spade.
This actually might be a good tweak, since a coating of chip-resistant clear nail polish could insulate the exposed areas of a pair of spades.
Holy moly, you guys are unbelievable! The entire spade is non-conductive. I tested it all over on every surface. I will not be posting another video of me probing it to death as I have already probed it to death and the case is closed. The entire spade, except for the female threads because they are tapped, is non-conductive. End of story.
No reason to get so upset, man. It's perfectly normal for AA Inmates to be very inquisitive about highly-unusual situations where they don't have a device to test for themselves. The notion of a spade with a non-conductive surface is utterly wild. So what happens when a binding post nut is cranked-down onto the spade? Does the high-torque break the coating to enable proper contact? If the surface is non-conductive then especially the fine strands of a conductor placed inside the spade won't break the non-conductive coating. Inquiring minds want to know the whole story, not just the bad news, ketchup.
Not upset at all. As I mentioned before, the set screws and the female threads are conductive, so the wire will be electrically connected to the body of the spade. The fork, though, is not. The torque will probably break the non-conductive surface depending on exactly what type of binding post someone has, but it's still not a good idea to have a non-conductive surface at that location. It's pretty thin/weak coating.
I will be removing it from both of the fork surfaces and the barrel. I did some more probing and it seems like the barrel is conductive, but I will resurface it anyway. If the coating was sprayed on, they probably just missed the barrel and there is likely a residual amount of coating in there (overspray).
Despite the coating, these spades have some good qualities including a solid copper body (not including the coating) and set screws. They are so cheap, so they are still a solid value. All you have to do it remove the coating.
I just read the Amazon reviews and about three other people going back to February 2020 complained that theirs were non-conductive.
BTW Duster, I also purchased the Viborg solid copper IEC inlet that you recommended and they are actually solid copper with no rose coating or non-conductive coating.
The unplated copper Viborg IEC inlet is outstanding, but that product might also be a thing of the past if they are now treating it with a Rose Gold (or whatever it actually is) plating. I ordered nine sets of unplated copper Viborg AC connectors, and they all came with the new "nano treatment". I was flummoxed about the unwelcome surprise, but was glad to know they could be returned to a warehouse in California for a full refund. Another brand is selling a "nano treated" copper IEC inlet marketed as unplated, so a precedent has been set within the marketplace. Listeners will have to decide for themselves whether they enjoy the sonic signature of the new treatment, but it simply won't sound like unplated copper which is the whole point of implementing such a thing.
Can't get any clearer proof that, ketchup. A strange thing, indeed. What a pity.
I just put a set of the post on my speaker cables. They sure look good plugged into the Cardas Copper binding post.
Hmmm. What are you cleaning or reconditioning them with?
I'm thinking steel wool and vinegar?
Better off not buying a Viborg product in the first place. Wonder who put the Borg in Viborg.
You want your system to sound like this?
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Viborg makes great products, built to a price point. Last time I checked, they were all the rage, and now suddenly they are the brand to avoid... go figure.
You didn't check with me.
"It was zero threat, right from the start, it was zero threat" Alfred E. Neuman
Hello inmates. It´s been a long time since I did the musical chairs cable game. My system is modest and with steady components. My dear PSB Stratus Gold i 26 years warming my ears , Bk AV5000 II a flawless performer not a hiccup in 25 years. Marantz AV pre went south 4 years ago. Now using a Rogue Magnum. Speaker Cables are MIT biwire Terminator same age as speakers / amp. Amp Cable is a Sir Bors old, I´m in the process of changing this power cord. Front end has been DVD players Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony. Currently using a Toshiba 9200 rescued from a friends trash bin. As said time capsule budget components. Interconnects NBS Mine Serpent and Madrigal Audio .
Viborg 1606 power the Toshiba and the Rogue. They were an upgrade from MIT at the DVD and stock on the Magnum. Very satisfied. All components on sand boxes with steel top plate on the sand + silicone isolation feet (self made imitating sorbothane footers ). Having invested lately in Accoustic treatment with foam absorbers and diffusers. Unbelievable difference. Dedicated power lines with a monster power strip plus self made cap filters in lines and power cords with added ferrites . Important thing for me is music enjoyment per se, system is the means to convey it. Music I listen pretty much across the board, jazz, classic, pop, rock, blues prog..... Hopefully going to get a new blu ray player in coming months. Regards
Meh, they're cheap enough to try out and removing the coating is no big deal. Hopefully the copper is good quality, but the Chinese aren't known to make things out of good metal.
Corrosion is a risk and I'm sure they read somewhere that copper oxide is a poor conductor.
off of any plated spades to reveal the better conductive copper underneath.
I continue to use my spades, though maybe once a year I clean them along with my copper Cardas binding posts to keep them "fresh".
Cheers!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
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