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For the sake of arguement, let's say that you have a non bi-wire speaker that is fairly efficient and an easy load. 95dB@1W/1M, and 8ohms nominal.
Let's also say that you have a small amplifier (9 watts/ch), and a short run of speaker wire (5 feet per side).
Your expectations are to get a reasonable volume level in a small room (13'x20'), with bass probably somewhere in the 40Hz region. The only thing that you DON"T want to do is choke the amplifier.What is the smallest speaker wire guage that you would feel comfortable using so that you are not choking the amplifier? I'm thinking 22AWG would be plenty for this example.
The reason why I ask is, I'm thinking about making my own speaker cables (with expensive wire) and I'm trying to figure out how small of an AWG is big enough. I'm not trying to cheap out. I just don't want to do the overkill thing for the sake of overkill.
Perhaps enough can be enough, and less could be more.
Follow Ups:
Transmission line with Peerless 850146 drivers.
Carver LightStar 2.0 provided the power.
No problems.
Hi.It various from amps & the length of speaker cable used.
AWG#22 handles max 2.5A (60C UL rating), & 3A (National board of Fire Underwriters rating).
So, for your 9W/8R amp, it draws 1.06A at max load. So theoretically, it works with #22 wire with a FLAT 8R speaker load.
But the impedance of a loudspeakr swings up & down like a roller-coaster per the music frequencies. It never stays at its rated 8R impedance. It can be up to 35R peaks or down to 4R at valley deeps.
So much larger size speaker wire is always recommended to make way for instantaneous large current draws at the impedannce deeps.
I won't not take speaker wires less than min. #16 gauge.
FYI, I am using two pairs of #12 oxygen free high conductivity copper cables for my outboard bi-wiring speaker systems.
You've now got a strong recommendation for 14 gauge, and a strong recommendation for 28 gauge, and some strong recommendations for just about every gauge in between.
Thanks Cappy. Yeah, I figured that I would get a wide range of replies. That's OK though.It's mostly the reasons supporting the replies that I'm interested in. Thanks to everyone for their opinions! It is all hepful to me.
Never thought I'd say this but I like speaker cables made from a simple twisted pair of 18 awg, solid core, bare copper w/teflon insulation. For about $15, you can buy a small roll of poly insulated, 7 x 18 awg copper "sprinkler wire", at Lowes (if they still have it...I can't find it on their website any longer) and make up a set of cables yourself. This will give you an idea of how the teflon insulated wire will sound. The teflon wire will be smoother and more bass extension.
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Thanks. It will be fun to experiment with some inexpensive wire before I jump in and purchase something expensive.
Exactly...this cable comes with 7 - 18 gauge solid core copper, polyethylene conductors inside a pvc jacket. Strip the jacket off using the rip cord. Make two twisted pair (1-18 awg per leg + & -} with counter-clockwise twists at about 10 - 12 twists per foot. Strip off the ends and connect them directly to the binding posts (no spades or bananas). A two meter pair should take you about 30 minutes.
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My experience is that 14-gauge Teflon insulated, silver plated stranded copper is optimum for tonal balance for audio use: power cords, interconnect and speaker cable. Higher gauge number sounds thin while lower sounds muddy.
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Al,
It can be expensive bought through normal distribution channels, if you have to buy a whole spool at a time. Electronics stores that sell surplus parts may sometimes have it for very little.One of my best scores was when a local store was having a sale. I found a spool that had most of its original 500 feet, and asked the manager how much. He said $4, so I rushed to the checkout. My wife was haggling over a few cents difference between the part number price and the bin price of a hemostat, and I was trying to signal her to just pay what they asked so I could escape before they reconsidered the price of the wire!
This stuff has a directional sonic character. You can neutralize the directionality by cutting each conductor in the middle, and reversing one of the halves. Splice, solder, and insulate, then make up the cable.
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http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=91&cat=Mil+Spec+Wireor
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/wire.html
or
http://www.weicowire.com/specpage.asp?nGroupID=180
Good Luck
...Golden Helix cables are right thin and sound great in my system!
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You'll be fine with thin gauge.I have used 28g magwire as speaker cables for a long while now with my 86db efficient Maggies with amps from 40wpc to 500wpc into their 4 ohm load. I really like the sound of the thin wire.
The caveat is that the runs have only been 5ft or so.
But, i did have an audio buddy run some "christmass ribbon" from an arts and crafts store (99 cents for 30 ft after the holidays). This is basically fancy ribbon that has some metal wires spaced the width of the ribbon to hold it together. The wires are most likely 24g aluminium. He used this on his Wharfdales and hk amp, and was amazed at how good it sounded compared to his 12g monster. Since he is obvioulsy not an audio phile, i think his runs were well over 5 ft.
You amy want to try some magwire at ratshack ($5) before you order the expensive stuff, just to be safe.
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You (and rwiley) have convinced my to spend a few bucks and experiment with some small gauge copper wire first. It will be cheap, fun, and educational.
I don't agree or disagree...I guess I'm sort of in the middle.I wound cable for the bass/MR part of my triamped DIY systems...
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They're 97dB sensitive and I use a 2.5WPC Music Reference EM7 amp to drive the B/MR sections (and another to drive the 2 treble sections). I used all-OCC-copper conductors--one 18g., Teflon-insulated and one-each 20g. and 26g. enameled, netting to c. 15-1/2g....per pole. I wound these 2 trios (plus 2 dielectric-bias conductors) around a 4g. Teflon tube in opposite directions. If you'd like more pics, e-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net.
To answer your specific question, I'd use a single 18g. per pole as minimum, but others would use smaller or larger--read that thread. :-)
BTW, for bass only, where one wants the least resistance for better driver damping, I use 4-times-14g. (nettting to 11g. per pole) home-AC, solid-conductor wire. (On the left in this pic.)
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Works and sounds great AFAIK, but I've never compared its sound to that of anything else.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
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And the pictures that you posted are great too. Thanks for sharing that. Although, I must admit that I am heading in the complete oposite direction of what you have. I'm trying to get the most out of a single amp (per channel) and I'm headed towards a single driver speaker too.But I certainly appreciate all of that effort it took to put your system together. How do you like your Music Reference EM7? I wouldn't have thought that it would have enough power to drive a complicated load like that. Amazing.
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I'm using active fitering and eq. from a dbx DriveRack PA, so the EM7 amp driving the B/MR is driving an 8-Ohm load of speakers with NO inductors or capacitors in the signal path, with filterpoints of 40Hz and 2.5KHz. The tweeter amp sees the same kind of load but for 16 Ohms and from 2.5KHz up. The woofers are a 4-Ohm load, again with no reactive components in the signal path.Yes it has lots of amp channels and drivers and ICs, but it sounds VERY coherent...all 'of one cloth'...and frankly it's the best-sounding speaker system I've ever heard...period.
The EM7 amps sound quite nice; try one.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
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I understand what you're saying. There is no crossover after the amp and so there is no filter to overcome. You have a direct connection to each voice coil.But, you have eight reactive loads hooked up simultaneously to one amplifier output. Perhaps each load has a slightly different length of wire getting back to the amp too. I'm not so sure you can classify that as a simple load. Simpler than going through a crossover, maybe. But not simple like single driver simple.
It's all academic though because it is working so well for you. I'm just thinking out loud. That's a big 2.5 Watts in the EM7! Impressive.
Btw, all of your projects look like a lot of fun. What were we talking about ? . . . . oh yeah, wire. I get sidetracked so easily.
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From my experience 22 gauge won't be enough on a 95db speaker. It didn't even work that well on my ~99 db bass drivers.I've used 22.5 gauge on a 108db Oris Horn and now 112db Orphean Horn, and that works well enough :).
Dennis Boyle at Chimera Labs has done extensive testing of appropriate gauges for various efficiency drivers, at least for his copper litz magnet wire cables. Results may vary with other wire metal types and geometries. Still, it might help you figure out what you need for your situation.
Check out: http://www.chimeralabs.com/spkr_intrl_full.html
This will give you some idea on his recommendations.
In some other literature I have from Dennis which I don't think is on his website anymore, his general recommendation starting point for speakers 95db and lower is about 16 gauge.
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At CES a couple of years ago, RAM and Audio Consulting were using 24 ga silver in cotton for the speaker wires - a single run for each side. Admittedly, there was an outboard crossover and the connection between the battery powered amp and the crossover was short. There were longer 24 ga wires to the drivers. Very good sound in that room.Alex Peychev (APL HiFi) is using very similar guage wire in his set up - his own amps and speakers. He knows good sound.
...not to mention the mapleshade cables, which sound very good imho.
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