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In Reply to: RE: A nice review of Audio Note Cobra/AN-J speakers posted by RGA on October 31, 2022 at 21:03:29
That is, regarding that "certain systems pick apart recordings better, but then also render the experience a little fatiguing, presumably than the likes of the AN-J. I don't think I'm unfair in saying that you preference tends to a certain, let's say, "mellowness", (or choose a word), of sound -- it's one shared by many people for that matter.
My own taste tends to a more "austere" sound but one that is revealing of the recording details, (good and bad). I don't think it takes much of a leap of imagination to believe that such equipment is lower in distortion across the spectrum. As for fatiguing, yep, it can be, but that very much depends on the individual recording: the best recordings aren't harsh or fatiguing given a very clean reproduction chain.
Dmitri Shostakovich
Follow Ups:
What speakers do you have, actually?
The speakers are DIY Zaph Audio ZRT 'Zaph Revelator Towers': see link
Dmitri Shostakovich
You're not really wrong - if you watched the video the fellow on the right notes that the AN system doesn't highlight a recording's weakness and shove it in your face like a typical hi-fi system or as the reviewer on the left notes (like all their other systems).This is why I used ATC as my counter - ATC is a professional speaker used in many of the world's recording studios. The whole point of those is to pull apart recordings and highlight the weakness in recordings so, hopefully, they can be fixed by the RE or ME. But as they noted it also means that these kinds of systems choose what you get to listen to because you may like a piece of music where no quality recording exists and it renders it unplayable.
I enjoy Loreen McKennitt - but her recordings are not the best - and I can't play her music on many systems - When I auditioned ATC fairly recently - I played cuts from 8 CDs I brought and all were unplayable - listening fatigue set in almost instantly - and ATC, as was pointed out, is viewed a little warmer than many other "hi-Fi" speakers. As I noted - Steve Hoffman is a famous Mastering engineer who has worked with ATC speakers and other pro monitors for decades - yet he greatly prefers both his pairs of AN E speakers both in his home and in the mastering studio. That's why I prefer my term "balanced" because it's all there - it's just not highlighting particular aspects more than others.
The reviewers are basically saying what I have said for many years - "balanced" Nothing is presented in a look what I can do way - which amounts in a sense to your word choice "mellowness."
Entry level AN (which is still a lot of money) I have said is the kind of system where if we look at the trees is a 7.5 to 9 out of 10 in every area. In no area or only in a very few is it a 9.5 or 10.
Thus when I rated my AN E/LX speakers ($6,900) it goes like this:
Qualities (out of 100) though speakers can exceed 100
Bass.......................... 84
Midrange 200hz to 3khz........ 87 (*2)
High Frequency 3khz up........ 87
Dynamics (Macro).............. 89
Dynamics (Micro/Midi)......... 86
Attack........................ 83
Decay ........................ 88
Resolution.................... 88 (*3)
Imaging....................... 75
Soundstage ................... 80
Tonal Quality ................ 90 (*4)
Cohesiveness ................. 95 (*2)
Gestalt ...................... 94 (*5)Total Rating: 1125/13 = 87 (without * modifiers attached)
While objectively I rank the ATC SCM 150 ($18,500) like thisQualities
Bass...........................95
Midrange 200hz to 3khz........ 92 (*2)
High Frequency 3khz up.........93
Dynamics (Macro).............. 105
Dynamics (Micro/Midi)..........92
Attack........................ 97
Decay ........................ 90
Resolution.................... 92 (*3)
Imaging....................... 84
Soundstage ................... 85
Tonal Quality ................ 92 (*4)
Cohesiveness ................. 65 (*2)
Gestalt ...................... 90 (*5)Total Rating: 1173/13 = 90
In the brackets is how I "value" each category so *3 for resolution means I value it as being 3 times more important than Imaging.
Gestalt is the overall subjective experience - which the reader can "delete" out unless they share the same subjective value.
The SCM 150 was a runner-up speaker for me - but in spite of the fact that in virtually every "area" the SCM 150 wins - the "gestalt" overall "more than the sum of the parts" factor I still ultimately prefer listening to the Audio Note E/LX (even though it is significantly less expensive).
The key is to be able to acknowledge that the ATC is objectively "better" but that it is not necessarily subjectively more agreeable to listen to - as you know with your SF1 - there are much better preamplifiers on a test bench - but it doesn't mean you will "LIKE" the sound of music more.
Edit - To add Some others for context:
Magnepan 1.7 Ribbon Floorstanding speakers - $1,995
Qualities
Bass...................................... 60
Midrange 200hz to 3khz.................... 68(*2)
High Frequency 3khz up.................... 68
Dynamics (Macro)...........................65
Dynamics (Micro/Midi).................... 60
Attack....................................70
Decay ....................................50
Resolution................................55 (*3)
Imaging...................................85
Soundstage ...............................75
Tonal Quality ............................60 (*4)
Cohesiveness .............................82 (*2)
Gestalt ..................................55 (*5)Total Rating: 853/13 = 66
Acapella Audio Arts High Cellini multi driver with Ion Tweeter Horn Floorstanding speakers - $55,000Qualities
Bass.......................................100
Midrange 200hz to 3khz.................... 110(*2)
High Frequency 3khz up.................... 115
Dynamics (Macro)...........................112
Dynamics (Micro/Midi).................... 110
Attack.....................................115
Decay .....................................107
Resolution.................................110 (*3)
Imaging....................................100
Soundstage ................................105
Tonal Quality .............................110 (*4)
Cohesiveness ..............................100 (*2)
Gestalt ...................................110 (*5)Total Rating: 1404/13 = 108
Wilson Audio Sophia 2- floorstanding speakers - $16,700
Qualities
Bass...................................... 87
Midrange 200hz to 3khz.................... 85 (*2)
High Frequency 3khz up.................... 95
Dynamics (Macro).......................... 98
Dynamics (Micro/Midi).................... 85
Attack................................... 95
Decay ................................... 74
Resolution............................... 77 (*3)
Imaging.................................. 75
Soundstage .............................. 80
Tonal Quality ........................... 75 (*4)
Cohesiveness ............................ 68 (*2)
Gestalt ................................. 72 (*5)Total Rating: 1066/13 = 82
Edits: 11/02/22 11/02/22 11/02/22
My beef with her recordings is that in my 'Main' system the her voice is often too quiet compared to the other instruments, especially bass.
I am using a tube preamp, the Sonic Frontiers Line 1 with SE+ upgrade. The SF a lot of people fine "too solid state-like"; I can understand why, but it does provided subtle tube goodness. Interestingly, maybe, choice of tubes makes a difference. My vintage Amperex white Label USA 'PQ' tubes add significant extra "fullness" -- precisely not the thing for McKennitt recordings, IMHO.
Dmitri Shostakovich
Having heard the High Cellini and other Acapellas a number of other models, they are generally among the best sounding speakers i have heard. I cannot say the same about the AN speakers.
Taken apart it still does Ok but is not competitive enough IMHO. AN System however plays on a level rarely achievable by average to moderately advanced listeners who "chose and match" components. Personally, I never heard system which would come close to that level in a private house or at dealers store.
And it's not going to happen since my hearing declined, but I still hear enough to know that the TOTL silver /super perma AN300B AN OPTS which I bought a few months ago for a chump change are superb, simply outstanding.
Some perspective needs to be applied. Room size and price. My numerical ratings are based upon all speakers regardless of price and I then apply a value ranking assuming that not everyone can throw a million dollars at a Stereo system.I have a system where based upon price I determine where a speaker "should rank" in terms of numerical value and price. Or to put it simply the relative "bag for buck" the speaker provides.
I am sure you would agree that no one would be dumb enough to compare and expect a $7,000 CAD Audio Note J standmount designed for a medium-sized room to compete with a $130,000 Acapella Campanile 2 speaker designed for a large room (rooms at least two times the size of the AN J room). A fair comparison for the AN J in the video I linked would be speakers in the $6-9K CAD range.
In my system it works like this
$501 - $1,000 (45 -49)
$1,001 - $1,500 (50 -54)
$1,501 - $2,000 (55 - 59)
$2,001 - $3,000 (60 - 64)
$3,001 - $4,000 (65- 69)
$4,001 - $6,000 (70-74)
$6,001 - $9,000 (75-79)
$9,001 - $13,000 (80-84)
$13,001 - $18,000 (85-89)So if a speaker is priced at $7000 - I would recommend the speaker if it scores from 75-79 points. If it scores below 75 it is not recommended - if it scores in the 80-84 range then it would be Highly Recommended and if pulls off 85-89 then it would be a Gold Star recommendation from me and what I would buy at the price.
I owned the KEF LS-50 for 4 years - this was a darling speaker several years ago.
KEF LS-50 2 Way Standmount speakers $1,499
Where score should place $1,001 - $1500 (50 -54)Qualities
Bass........................................................ 50
Midrange 200hz to 3khz ...................... 52 (*2)
High Frequency 3khz up .......................58
Dynamics (Macro)..................................55
Dynamics (Micro/Midi)......................... 50
Attack...................................................... 60
Decay...................................................... 53
Resolution.............................................. 53 (*3)
Imaging ................................................. .80
Soundstage.............................................. 75
Tonal Quality.......................................... 52 (*4)
Cohesiveness .......................................... 75 (*2)
Gestalt..................................................... 55 (*5)Total Rating: 715/13 = 55
Rating with modifiers: 1324/24 = 55
This speaker is scoring in the $1,501 - $2,000 (55 - 59) range but did not meet the 3-point spread (needing 58).
The speaker is recommended but not surpassing its price range making it any kind of elite speaker. It is very good for what you pay and it is worthy of recommendation.
The Audio Note AX Two that I owned along with the KEF LS-50 I rated like this
Audio Note AX Two 2 way Standmount speakers ($1,000)
Where score should place: $501-$1,000 (45 -49)Qualities
Bass..................................................... 50
Midrange 200hz to 3khz.................... 60 (*2)
High Frequency 3khz up.................... 60
Dynamics (Macro) ............................. 47
Dynamics (Micro/Midi) .................... 57
Attack ................................................ 53
Decay .................................................. 60
Resolution .......................................... 62 (*3)
Imaging .............................................. 73
Soundstage ......................................... 75
Tonal Quality ..................................... 64 (*4)
Cohesiveness ..................................... 75 (*2)
Gestalt .............................................. 63 (*5)Total Rating: 789/13 = 61
Rating with modifiers: 1492/24 = 62This speaker is scoring at the $2,001 - $3,000.00 (60 - 64) level
Because the speaker is $1,000 it should score around 49-50. Yet I rank it considerably higher than my KEF LS-50 which is already more expensive and not as good. Thus the AX Two is in my review standards a considerably good buy, rivalling speakers I rank in the $2,000 to $3,000 range. Hence when reviewers say "This speaker competes with speakers 2 and 3 times the price" you can see where I am coming from with actual numerical ranking. The AX Two competes and beats speakers I would recommend in the $2k to $3k price range. Although it would not compete with "elite" speakers in that price range that are outperforming their price class.
In no way shape or form does the AX Two compete with Acapella in ANY way. But it does compete with a myriad of sub $3,000 speakers Albeit "weaker" sub $3,000 speakers. Because I have speakers in the $2,500 range (scoring at 65-70 or higher) that outperform the 60-64 level,these $2k to $3K speakers would be considered superior to the AX Two.
Another example is
Pure Audio Project Quintet 15 Horn Floor-standing speakers $9,995
Where the score should place: $9,001 - $13,000 (80-84)Qualities
Bass...................................................... 85
Midrange 200hz to 3khz..................... 88 (*2)
High Frequency 3khz up..................... 90
Dynamics (Macro)............................... 88
Dynamics (Micro/Midi)...................... 90
Attack................................................... 94
Decay ................................................... 92
Resolution............................................ 90 (*3)
Imaging ............................................... 83
Soundstage........................................... 85
Tonal Quality........................................ 90 (*4)
Cohesiveness........................................ 90 (*2)
Gestalt ................................................. 100 (*5)Total Rating: 1165/13 = 90
Rating with modifiers: 2193/24 = 91
This speaker is scoring at the $18,001 - $25,000 (90-94) level.
It is scoring well above its price range and this is an absolutely great buy for $10,000 as it competes in the $20k price range. Again this speaker isn't going to compete with Acapella but it's 1/10th the price so that's a tall order.
Edits: 11/04/22
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