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I was wondering if anyone has compared any up to $2500 (used is ok) tube line stage preamp to one of the big boys like the ARC Ref, CAT, Lamm, etc with favorable results?
System is vinyl only (I already have a stand alone phono stage) so no frills is great!
Follow Ups:
If you already have the phono stage covered (as I do) check out Linear Tube Audio's MZ2. If you configure with all the upgrades including their linear power supply it comes in under your budget.
I replaced a Cary SLP 98 preamp (6SN7 based) with the MZ2. It's simple looking but killer sound.
maybe worth having a look?...
Over the years since 2001 I've built all the Bottleheads, Hagermans, an Aikido, brought an an ARC LS-1 into the Millenium, various passives, and some I've forgotten. Had an CAT LS-1 Sig and Dehavilland something or other and a few other high end/high dollar store bought as well.
Hands down, the JE Labs, re-designed by Steve Brown is the simplest and bestest. You can do it:
View YouTube Video
We are not them, they are us
.
This gem was introduced in 2003, so used examples should be available in your price range. Check it out. I love mine and treated it to the Signature upgrade a few years ago.
+1 on that. A great tube line stage
Great suggestion. If only I had the shelf space. It's just a couple inches deep for my shelving.
Eddie Current Balancing Act on US Audio Mart for $3,000. Come up with the extra $500. Negotiate. You can resell it for that any day, but you won't. It's 500 less than I paid for mine. Worth every penny.
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
Thx for the link. It's new to me, but it looks extremely intriguing.
Elac DDP-2. It's a swiss army knife. Rick Becker gave it a huge thumbs up at Axpona with review to follow
I have the DDP-1 + PS 5, amazing
nt
Umm because they're great.Manual
Edits: 05/01/19
$1700 and it includes a MM/MC phono stage. See link to review below.
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
I'll second the Manley Shrimp. I purchased the earlier version of the Shrimp used after having previously had an Adcom SS preamp (rated A by Stereophile) followed by an amorphous core passive preamp. No comparison. The Shrimp is in a different league and is smoother with greater soundstaging capabilities, sweeter highs, and better imaging. Plus, you can make some changes in the sound with different tubes (I switched the stock out for Genalex). Also, and check to make sure this is still the case, if you get one used and it's new enough, Manley has a five year transferable warranty. I'm certain the Jumbo is a step up, but the price was nearly double from the original. Either one purchased used is a real bang for your buck product. It forms the core of my system and after eight years I have absolutely no desire to change it out.
I left CJ ET3-se for PrimaLuna Prologue Premium . Still happy . Easier on tubes w/ more appropriate gain.
The Atma-Sphere UV-1 is about $1900 as a line stage. It uses 6SN7s. You'll note that the 6SN7 is used in a lot of the preamps mentioned on this thread, like the Don Sachs. Its a great tube for this sort of thing.
What separates less expensive preamps from more expensive ones isn't always sound. Its not crazy to find inexpensive preamps that might sound better in nearly every way. The reason is that a good circuit in a high end application is often better off if its kept simple; something that is tempting for a designer to ignore if their goal is a higher price tag. On top of this, there is something called the 'Veblen Effect' where companies might realize they can sell more because of a perceived greater value if they simply mark the price up. But not all companies do it that way- some price according to a formula, and their products tend to be less expensive without any downside.
So you have to audition to sort this out- reviewers don't like to do comparisons especially if a cheaper product is embarrassing one that is much more expensive. Isn't good for ad sales...
Thanks Ralph, I believe this will be the winner!
I would take a look at a used Joule-Electra LA-150SE. Though I am a fan for Joule-Electra gear, the LA-150SE is a great preamp.
Happy Listening,
Rich Brkich
Retailer & Audio Asylum Industry Liaison
my then ARC Ref 1 preamp. It has a very nice midrange to boot too.What I liked about the Sonic Frontiers SFL2 preamp is you can tailor its sound according to your own taste by tube rolling. And it is within your price range.
If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing well
(Proverb)
Edits: 04/30/19
SFL2 with VCap ODAM....Magic caps....
I've been looking at this SF carefully but I don't think I can fit the power supply anywhere. Heard one the other day and it's a beautiful sounding preamp and reasonably priced these days.
For around $3K, remote version-remarkable!
This preamp served me well for many years. I recently went to a custom SS preamp that cost about twice the price of the deHaviiland. Three of my four power amplifiers are SET, from 9-0.8W out. The other is a 12W Class A PP with triode-wired pentode operation. The new preamp reveals limitations of the UV3 that I never heard.
Very nice, I am currently using the UV3 to drive my new Wells Audio Innamorata SS samp and the synergy is very good. The Carver KT-88 monoblocks were just not cutting it in the bass section driving my Legacy Focus SE's.
nt
Love it, one of the best sounding SS amps I have heard, at least in my system. I'll never look back on tube amps again. Jeff is also very easy to deal with...
Reviews of the that Wells amp have sure been VERY positive. Lotta money though. I've been thinking about a 6SN7 preamp for a while now and UV3 is high on my list.
Yes pricey, but I think its very competitive at its price point. I'll be buried with it...From reviews, the Akasha, at a lower price point, is also excellent...
I would love to A/B the Sachs vs UV3, both 6SN7 preamps....however I have had no itch yet to change preamps....good luck with your search...
A feature I like most about the UV3 is the variable gain (balance trim pots), the Wells is driven to full power with only about 0.8 volts, so the UV3 trim pots can be turned almost all of the way down, significantly lowering any noise artifacts. And my speakers are around 95 DB sensitive. Plenty of headroom!
I'm very happy with my Jumbo Shrimp I got used - very quiet, sounds good, no on/off thumps. Looks good, too.
WW
"I'd crawl over twenty miles of bad country to listen to you pee in a tin cup on the telephone." (Jo Carol Pierce)
Quicksilver!
It in a 1$ store wooden box is THE best Pre I've heard since starting my Audio Weenie adventures in 1967.
But hey! fill yer boots buying worthless junk at ludicrous prices.
It's All the rage :-)
I'm falling into the Pass B1 Buffer camp. I think my amps needed just that little extra to properly match.
But yes I do agree that less is more when it comes to the "pre".
This is an interesting issue. I've had passives before and I loved the heck out of them, especially the LDR type but once I got my old Herron preamp in the mix, the spacial difference in terms of soundstage and instrument separation was just too great to ignore. I purchased an Air Tight basic passive recently to test it again and the sound was super clean but just too down the middle for me.
At that price, this should be on your list. Mine sounds fabulous. I got upgraded 12ax7 tubes, remote, and upgraded caps for under $2500. Don will work with you on customization.
I heard good things about Don Sachs. Is his version of the SP14 the best. I've done some looking and there are other form factors of that pre that fit my living room system better.... but if his is the best sounding then never mind.
I haven't heard enough preamps to say "it's the best sounding". But John Elison built his own SP-14 kit and he has a lot more experience and he also loves it. Don has very specific opinions about parts and tubes but he'll do what you want. For example, I didn't have room for the setup with the tubes externally, so mine saved a little money that way which got put into better parts and tubes. My setup really took off once this pre made it into my system. My previous preamps include a CJ PV10AL and a Mapletree Audio Ultra 4A (same tube types and rectifier as Don's). Just know that after I bought mine his waiting list grew longer - and so did his build times. Hope you find the preamp that suits you best.
Nothing but VERY happy owners. If I had the cash I'd get this one.
Edits: 04/29/19 04/29/19
No, but the comparison I did caused me to ditch my mega upgraded Counterpoint for a 15 year-old un-upgraded example of a CAT SL1. It wasn't even close. Two different planets even. For $2.5k you can get a helluva good tubed pre, just don't think you're going to play with the big boys though.
Audible Illusions Modulus 3B. 7 inputs including a great phono input, tape loop, used 4 6922 or equivalent tubes. When I had mine, I used 6h23neb tubes provided by AI.
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
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