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I was looking for a good low level listening integrated. Music is mainly classical, at low level listening, speakers 3 ways with 10" woofer, room mid size bedroom, sources FM and CDP.
I do like the NAD. But I have had realiability issues with several NAD products. How do these two stack up. And what would you prefer in this situation.
Also I would prefer TONE controls.
charles
Follow Ups:
Okay.
I have heard the NAD separates, Cambridge audio Azur 640A, Arcam A80 and A70 and NAD C350 and 320BEE, Rotel RB1070 power amp at home at various point of time with the same electronics.
My experience is as follows.
1. The difference between the NAD and Cambridge audio integrateds is basically in the voicing. You can’t say one is better than the other. They are all the same. I preferred the NAD integrateds. Your preference may vary.
2. The Arcam A80 is slightly better than the NAD Integrateds. The difference is basically due to the better quality preamp. But Arcam integrateds are overpriced in my opinion. You can buy used separates on audiogon at the same price as a new Arcam A80 / 90 which will beat the pants off the Arcam. The Arcam A70 is not all that great.
3. The new NAD separates (C270 and its preamp) out performed all these in every department. The Rotel bordered on the shrill. It was trying to be very refined in the highs while staying under a reasonable budget but failed horribly.
I agree that the rotel is shrill. I agree that the A70 is not one of Arcam's stronger products. And I agree that used separates can be had on Audiogon for the same price as a somewhat newer Arcam. As for "beating the pants off" the Arcam, I would only say, first, that used separates that would accomplish this are going to have to be very, very used -- and have all the question marks that go with that; and, second, that the comparison isn't fair because at the same age-point the Arcam integrates would be cheaper.
My major concern with the NAD suggestion is that I, personally, can't abide my stuff not working. Maybe that's because I have the sort of friends who enjoy busting my chops, but the first time there were six people in my house to watch Layer Cake or Fight Club or something, and one whole channel of my amp was producing nothing but clouds of blue smoke, they'd never let me hear the end of it. I actually had a guy -- in here -- recently tell me that the reason I *should* buy an NAD C-270 is that the company replaced it with a C-272 at no extra charge when it blew up after a month! Gee, thanks ever so much, fellas.
Okay, so I'm biased -- I just bought a mui-expensive Arcam integrated. And I'm not looking for a fight (please don't flame me!). Dollar for dollar, year-for-year, I still think that's where the best sound is.
The NAD C272 has a cap blow up issue which is well documented in their website. This can be avoided by giving good ventilation. I have a couple of friends who use them and they have no issues. Stacking components on top is a big no for them.
The "beats the pants off" is an exageration of course :-))
I have a friend who use the Manger zerobox speakers with two C272 as monoblocks. He uses the modright preamp with these. The Mangers are one of the most transparent sounding speakers ever made.Fantastic sound ! He upgraded to these from the krell 300xi. I feel the power amp section of most NADS are very good. Their preamps are the achilles heel.
Wonder how the Cambridge 640 or 540 will fare in this comparison.These are highly regarded amps.
Better than Nad but pretty inferior to Arcam.
I would just like to say that two months ago I'd never even *HEARD* of Arcam, and now I'm so excited about the expected arrival of my FMJ-A22 (they're saying Thursday -- keep your fingers crossed!) that I can hardly concentrate on anything else. I'm zip-tying the cables in the back of my entertainment system and there are no clean clothes in the house.
Basically the Arcam A 70 ( I believe replacement for A65 ) is not particularily rated well for sound quality-Nad 372 is rated tops for sound quality.
I realize Nad has had some issues ( far fewer of late ) but the latest integrateds are almost impossible to beat on sound quality and features.
If you buy from an authorized dealer it shouldn't be a problem.
Reviews in these mags are nothing but are a way to earn money for these mag companies. I have heard the Arcam A80 and the Nad 372.....no comparison what so ever. Yes, the Nad had a lot of bass....it didnt make any music...it was only "sound" for me...no involvement.
The 325bee is even worse...it doesnt even have bass. Its an hollow sounding crappy amp IMO. Arcam A65 instead is a superb musical amp with warm rich midrange, deep bass and crispy airy highs...moreover it makes "music". It keeps you hooked to your listening chair.
Nad is not even a shit of Arcam.
NT
Its up to you to believe or not.
I recently started a thread about picking new gear, elsewhere in the forum. I own a pair of Linn Ninkas and had lots of problems with some Parasound stuff so I bought a Linn AV5105 for $700 on Audiogon and didn't like the sound. Then I bought a Bryston 3B for $650 on EBay and didn't like the sound. Then I bought a Rotel 980 for $350 (to match my Rotel preamp) and didn't like the sound. Then a friend of mine brought over a dinky Arcam A-60 integrated from about 1979, that he'd picked up at a garage sale for $2. The Arcam sounded AMAZING. Far more detail, far more agility, far more liquid and musical. If not for the facts that it's desperately underpowered and not reliably functional, I'd have simply stuck with it to run my $1000-plus pair of speakers. I just bought an Arcam FMJ-A22 with DAVE module, I'll let you know how it works out when it gets here but I've no doubts, personally....
I owned an Arcam A65plus for a couple of years and it sounded great. Punchy detailed and sweet. I owned a NAD C320Bee for 2 weeks before I returned it. Lifeless.
I keep hearing that there are quality-of-build problems with NAD. Even someone who wrote to me (see other post) to say that I ought to be listening to NAD separates, instead of Arcam stuff, had one of his C-270's just completely blow up on him -- he was telling me in the context that the company replaced it, so he was calling that a plus, but shouldn't the thing not blow up in the first place?
Listen, I've had Parasound gear that didn't work properly, I've had a Bryston 3B that didn't work properly, I've had a Harmon/Kardon integrated that didn't work properly, and I've had a Rotel power amp that didn't work properly. I think that makes me a little more than average-qualified to say that, when you've got company over, and something doesn't work, there's no amount of soundstaging or micro-detail that can get that kind of egg off your face.
Personally, I'd never risk it again. If these are your only two choices, get the Arcam.
PS: You might be interested to know that I'm in almost exactly the same boat -- I'm shopping for new amplification and have narrowed it down to the Arcam FMJ-A22, the PS-Audio GSC-100, the Onkyo A-9555, the Linn Classik, or a power amp by Bryston, Quad, Linn, Arcam, or a newer Rotel. So when you've had a chance to do some comparison listening, I'd be very interested to know what you find. ...And yes, I do realize that my finalists are all over the place, price-wise.
I was told the Stereophile mag mentioned the ONkyo A-9555 had a few issues. Sorry to hear that being it was also high on my list. It seems it can not handle diffucult speaker loads and was unpredictable (if I remember the quote). Being I use vintage speakers this WOULD be a problem with too much impedance variation. And also the damping factor was an astounding <30. I have clock radios with better speaker handling than that. I am still looking at the arcam. But if I am going just have a stereo blow up way spend BIG bucks in the first place?
charles
You can try the Panny xr-57 (possibly with an aftermarket powercord)
If your speakers are - 1) reasonably efficient i.e 89db, 2) impedence does not swing too wildly and 3) preferably, biampable.
I am running a xr55 with silverline sonatina speakers and I am very happy. I would only switch if I had a $3K budget for a Lavry DA10 DAC + 2K for an integrated amp.
I just this minute purchased an Arcam FMJ-A22 with the DAVE module and I'll let everyone know what comes of that....
Arcam A65..anyday...
Nad is crap in front of Arcam.
HenryCogito Ergo Spud
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