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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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In Reply to: Umm, let's explore this thought posted by Bruce from DC on May 23, 2002 at 16:37:36:
Bruce,I am one for distinctions and polarities as they apply to ones emotions (a contradictory thought I know).
OK first did you like my Beethoven’s 5th position?
Pardon my language if it seems confrontational. I don’t mean to be, but time is short and I want to get home to the kiddies and have time to listen the Hutcherson /Tyner LP that I have ready. My whole point about Jazz is: if you have a silk purse why try to make it into a Persian rug. (I.e. enjoy what you have).
Part of my thought is that Jazz should not be preoccupied with answering the question of symphonic form or who is the American Mozart. Or more to the point – where is the Jazz Bruckner? There is a reality about Jazz - it is stupifingly excellent toe tappin’ music. Yes it touches the musical soul. The exquisiteness that is early Armstrong has no corilary in Classical music – for good or for bad – it is genius but it is only in reference to the Jazz world. What he does is great music, but it is not a great extended composition.
I do not mean that the highest musical order is the Symphonic form, but I do mean that extrapolation is musical intelligence – and that I find it is the most satisfying personally – and frustratingly absent in Jazz compositions.
My point is that jazz is limited. And the realization of that will free those who have to compare it to Classical music when trying to define “good’ or “Artâ€. Frankly I get more of a charge from hearing Armstrong on “West End Blues†or Parker in “Congo Bluesâ€. than many self conscious forms of Jazz compositions. Even these are short bursts of excellence. For long form, I find more coherence in Basie’s “Every Tub†than in Blakey’s “Moanin†(though this is a great piece of music). I will not dabble in Coletrane for the moment because I will be out of my depth. But I’d be happy to debate Mingus.
Long form elude Jazz, as you pointed out, because it means extrapolation. I feel that I should add an elegy: Jazz is caught in a vice grip between Classical and Rock. And it has to prove itself to an audience that does not care. The great pity about Jazz it that it has been chasing the skirt of Classical music instead of making great sounds that will win us all over. Jazz was a reflection of popular music (to my mind it’s strength), and as it gained “Art†status it had to justify it self by comparison to 19th century Art music. It is bound to fail. Jazz is not, by it’s nature Western Art music. It is more and it is less.
I will be honest and say that I am Brubeck ignorant and I am clearly lacking, but what I have heard never rises above the average. (Sorry, I said I was ignorant), but then again, I am one who finds “hard bop†an oxymoron. But if the composition is Mozart based, than to my mind, it is already compromised by the crutch of authority. I would not see any originality in it. Plus Any comparison to Beethoven is spurious, a crutch at best, it is my poster child example of what is wrong with jazz that, that it needs outside justification.
For unison playing I love Konitz and Marsh, I’d stand by it as Art, but never feel that I had to justify it via Beethoven. (Parker derived and minor as they are to many Jazz lovers).
OK, more to the point. I am not a theme and variations guy. Whether Bach or Beethoven or whom ever. It is one of my blind sides. Yet I love a lot of Jazz. My problem with variation is that is seems an empty exercise in formalism. So when Brahms gives me 30 variations on Hayden, I couldn’t care less, because none of them “seem†authentic. By that I mean that (to my mind) it exposes the machinery, the ability to manipulate my emotions based on their expertise in manipulating orchestral sound.
Although ultimately I find it a detriment in Jazz, I feel that it is none the less emotionally valid. I believe that the variations are a more genuine response to committing oneself to a tune in Jazz. I should add that I am also not a fan of blowing contests since it does not produce significant music, only theatrics (I guess this pushes me further from the Jazz mainstream, too bad)
OK enough. I’d love to continue this more but it takes me too long to write so may be tomorrow. If you care to respond let’s start a new thread.
Gregg
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Follow Ups
- Jazz is caught in a vice grip between Classical and Rock. - gd 19:14:53 05/23/02 (1)
- Re: Jazz is caught in a vice grip between Classical and Rock. - Bruce from DC 07:41:12 05/24/02 (0)
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