Just a day ago, we published a review of the Audio Zone AMP-1 on 6moons. I knew going in that the design was closely based on the 47Lab GainCard which has inspired a small underground GainClone culture, albeit in the one-up DIY and non-commercial sector.We received a reader e-mail questioning our ethics, in reviewing, awarding and thus endorsing a product that so clearly rides on the coat tails of another. Those not interested in reading the actual review should know that AMP-1 looks very similar to the GainCard but retails for $1,795 rather than $3,300 (or $4,800 when the GainCard is outfitted with the 50-watt power supply that would make it equal to the 45-watt AMP-1). AMP-1 currently sells direct from Canada but a dealer network is being set up.
Prior to accepting this assignment, I ensured that the IC-based GainCard architecture wasn't patented. In different iterations I know of, it's been used by Final Lab, nOrh, IRD and Jeff Rowland. PDF documents on the basic architecture of an IC-based audio amplifier are public-domain accessible from the National website, one popular manufacturer of ICs for these applications.
The remaining issue is that with the exception of the reviewed AMP-1, the other mentioned implementations of ICs in power amps don't borrow any visual design elements from 47Lab. You could perhaps say that once hip to the fact that ICs, properly used, can make a bona fide audiophile product, these firms did their own research and developed new approaches, thus "owing" 47Lab for the basic idea only, and not detailed circuit topologies.
AMP-1 is nearly blatant in its similarity to the original GainCard. While this is quite common in the DIY sector, our reader felt appaled to see it in the commercial sector.
Having been in manufacturing myself, we more than once encountered incidents where competitors "borrowed" clear design cues, cosmetic elements, outright ad campaign focus and other items. Sans patents or trademarks, none of that can be protected or enforced. Even patents become difficult to enforce when dealing across international borders, as with mainland China for example.
Having experience "on the other side" (being copied and having to "live with it") I have strong sympathies for 47Lab. As a consumer-by-proxy, I also feel a magazine's responsiblity toward its readers is to seek out products that offer "the same for less" in a nutshell.
My question to inmates concerns where you personally feel the line is crossed, from simply building a better mouse trap on the one hand, to being culpable for blatantly ripping off another design on the other hand, repackaging it, selling it for half or less and abusing the other guy's R&D efforts, marketing campaign and inbuilt desire-factor established by reviews and tradeshows.
This isn't an easy question, hence I encourage you to think about various implications before you fire away. But then do fire and give it your best shot.
Cheers,
Srajan Ebaen
publisher, 6moons
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Topic - When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Srajan Ebaen (R) 08:59:14 07/08/03 (95)
- Re: When it truly is a new moustrap. - Dave-A 06:56:04 07/15/03 (2)
- Re: When it truly is a new moustrap. - Peter daniel 09:45:00 07/15/03 (1)
- Re: When it truly is a new moustrap. - Dave-A 07:31:23 07/16/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Kuei Yang Wang 05:28:55 07/12/03 (14)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 07:04:17 07/12/03 (13)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter Daniel 09:29:13 07/12/03 (2)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 10:14:24 07/12/03 (1)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 11:32:34 07/12/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Kuei Yang Wang 08:05:34 07/12/03 (9)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 10:21:20 07/12/03 (8)
- Re: Better mouse trap? - Dave-A 21:46:43 07/13/03 (7)
- Re: Better mouse trap? - Peter Daniel 08:07:37 07/14/03 (6)
- sharing ... - tcain 11:47:38 07/14/03 (5)
- Re: sharing ... - Peter Daniel 12:35:37 07/14/03 (4)
- Re: sharing ... - tcain 14:28:30 07/14/03 (3)
- Re: Now THAT'S it. - Dave-A 06:16:21 07/15/03 (2)
- Re: Now THAT'S it. - Peter Daniel 09:21:29 07/15/03 (1)
- Re: Now THAT'S it. - Dave-A 07:23:55 07/16/03 (0)
- my take - jlee 21:49:37 07/10/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - morricab 14:47:35 07/09/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - yoshi 12:21:45 07/09/03 (0)
- Final(?) thanks to a stimulating thread and its contributors - Srajan Ebaen (R) 10:56:46 07/09/03 (2)
- Re: Final(?) thanks to a stimulating thread and its contributors - Steve Eddy 11:57:45 07/09/03 (1)
- Re: And thank you...... - alan m. kafton 14:46:17 07/09/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Paul L 21:51:37 07/08/03 (6)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Steve Eddy 02:02:40 07/09/03 (0)
- Re: Here come da judge ... - Passive Chappy 22:40:34 07/08/03 (4)
- Re: Here come da judge ... - Paul L 07:15:18 07/09/03 (1)
- Re: Here come da judge ... - Passive Chappy 14:34:33 07/09/03 (0)
- Re: Here come da judge ... (tube/ic) - breguetphile 05:19:33 07/09/03 (1)
- tube buffered gainclone - planet10 12:21:51 07/09/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - EKG 19:43:10 07/08/03 (1)
- Re: Great points indeed. [nt] - alan m. kafton 14:38:34 07/09/03 (0)
- Peter Daniel, if I may... - Joe Murphy Jr 18:01:09 07/08/03 (3)
- Re: Peter Daniel, if I may... - Peter Daniel 19:08:38 07/08/03 (2)
- Been there. Seen that. - Joe Murphy Jr 19:50:31 07/08/03 (1)
- Re: Been there. Seen that. - planet10 21:48:08 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Tuckers 16:59:49 07/08/03 (0)
- What is special about 47 Labs - sam9 16:27:27 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: Sakura Systems responds - Srajan Ebaen (R) 16:26:54 07/08/03 (2)
- Re: Sakura Systems responds - Peter Daniel 20:35:53 07/08/03 (1)
- Re: Sakura Systems responds - alan m. kafton 09:38:02 07/09/03 (0)
- Re: Defending the Gaincard and cutting the Amp1 some slack. - Passive Chappy 16:26:28 07/08/03 (1)
- Re: Defending the Gaincard and cutting the Amp1 some slack. - Srajan Ebaen (R) 16:47:40 07/08/03 (0)
- ever read any electronics books? - breguetphile 13:16:01 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Budrew 12:51:40 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: thanks for your commentary thus far - Srajan Ebaen (R) 12:24:23 07/08/03 (2)
- Re: thanks for your commentary thus far - Steven R. Rochlin 16:01:53 07/08/03 (1)
- Nelson Pass' design - marksmith@sympatico.ca 07:46:03 07/09/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Steve Eddy 11:59:00 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter Daniel 11:49:28 07/08/03 (1)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Bruce from DC 12:19:08 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Bruce from DC 11:33:52 07/08/03 (18)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 13:02:03 07/08/03 (17)
- Re: "artisitically inspired" - Bruce from DC 07:17:23 07/09/03 (2)
- Re: "artisitically inspired" - Dave-A 06:38:39 07/15/03 (0)
- Re: "artisitically inspired" - tcain 08:47:53 07/09/03 (0)
- why the "M" next to your moniker? - Jay 19:16:45 07/08/03 (6)
- My apologies...and thanks guys for the heads-up - Jay 22:02:13 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: I'll answer that. - alan m. kafton 20:34:03 07/08/03 (3)
- Re: I'll answer that. - Steve Eddy 21:08:47 07/08/03 (2)
- Re: I'll answer that. - alan m. kafton 09:16:19 07/09/03 (1)
- Re: I'll answer that. - Steve Eddy 10:25:46 07/09/03 (0)
- Click on it to find out. - Ted Smith 20:31:39 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - blake 16:21:24 07/08/03 (4)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 17:40:25 07/08/03 (3)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - blake 18:56:03 07/08/03 (2)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 18:03:19 07/09/03 (1)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - blake 19:25:00 07/09/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter Daniel 16:19:44 07/08/03 (1)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 17:24:37 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Mike McCall 10:30:17 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - blake 10:26:28 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Ed Sawyer 10:16:46 07/08/03 (15)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter Daniel 11:18:54 07/08/03 (14)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Ed Sawyer 12:27:38 07/08/03 (13)
- Two good points... - Steven R. Rochlin 16:11:07 07/08/03 (2)
- Re: Two good points, but... - Dave-A 07:15:29 07/13/03 (0)
- Steven you are RIGHT, unfortunatley such IDIOCY is common... - Mikenificent1 15:52:05 07/09/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter Daniel 12:44:27 07/08/03 (9)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Ed Sawyer 13:03:52 07/08/03 (8)
- Final amp, or Camelot phono stage - FR Drew 19:05:40 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter Daniel 13:38:50 07/08/03 (6)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 14:00:23 07/08/03 (5)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter Daniel 16:00:24 07/08/03 (4)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 18:15:59 07/08/03 (3)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter Daniel 18:51:30 07/08/03 (2)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - tcain 19:03:35 07/08/03 (1)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter DAniel 19:23:40 07/08/03 (0)
- Some thoughts - A.J. 10:14:34 07/08/03 (0)
- Same considerations for integrated circuit design. - Leisure7 10:02:30 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Steven R. Rochlin 09:39:11 07/08/03 (0)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - AbeCollins 09:30:01 07/08/03 (2)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Anonymo 02:21:35 07/12/03 (1)
- Re: When does a better mouse trap turn distasteful carboncopy cloning? - Peter Daniel 15:52:46 07/13/03 (0)