Re: Yes, "It seems silly, But that's what we have to live with."

Posted by jneutron (A) on April 20, 2006 at 11:36:35

In Reply to: Yes, "It seems silly, But that's what we have to live with." posted by cheap-Jack on April 20, 2006 at 09:21:08:

cj:""
This is exactly I want to address: new parts put in old appliances &
waive their fire insurance coverage. Yet the consumers got to take the hit. Right, we have to live with it! ""

If the repair is the cause of the fire, and the repair fails code, what do you expect them to do? Nothing is waived until it is brought to their attention. If it is a blatent act which they discover in the course of searching through the debris, it's their call.

cj:""Probably you don't know: not all parts fall inside the scope of UL/CSA. Like a resistor or a capacitor or even the vacuum tubes used to build a radio or an audio amp, these are not UL/CSA applicable. As long as the componets used are made within the specs required by the amp or radio, it is OK. UL/CSA will certify the finished product as long as the components used inside are made up to the voltage & wattage requirement. ""

Very few internal components are required to be tested for certification, another red herring.. The overall unit, to be sold, must meet specific requirements. If the type of or number of internal changes warrant re-cert, then so be it.

If UL certifies a line cord, they are certifying the sum of the parts. If you swap the parts, say go with a plug that is a tenth the cost, do you think they should just cover it without new tests?

cj:""Frankly as I posted earlier, I just can't imagine how many DIYers
build HV gears at home that are built with parts not UL/CSA applicable. Technically, you can say they all violate houehold safty codes as their HV toys are never UL/CSA certifiable.""

Many do...it is a risk some take. What YOU have done is violate building code, and I have pointed out the risks you take, both in insurance coverage, equipment risks, and risks to life. What you choose to do is yours and yours alone.

cj:""Back to my cords. It is up to the OEM to take care of the UL/CSA approvals of the cords we supply them per their specs as a part of their finished product. Of course, the power cords are built with cable, & terminations all UL/CSA approved, even if the old parts have been replaced with new parts due to stock exhaustion. Once the OEM customers approve such materails swap, it is their job to get it straight out with UL/CSA listing. ""

So in other words, if you were to bait and switch the wires, or the plugs, your position is "let the buyer beware"?? At least you inform them of the changes..that is good.

cj:""Not the cord supplier as
we don't have to have our cords UL/CSA certified.

That explains why you didn't really understand the cert requirements, you have your customer worry about that.

cj:""
Of coure, if we sell the cords as a finished commercial product accessible to the public, they got to be certified.""

And if you change the plug or the wire, you force a re-cert of your product.

cj:""I surely assume they have done such UL/CSA re-listing of the cords with new parts. We have produced & supplied thousands of cords with the new parts.""

Your customer is the one who should be worried about it. At least you now admit that the changes can indeed force re-certification.

cj:""NO, please you read my posts again. I said the CAT5 is a 300V
UL certified, far 'safer' to use than many electronic parts used inside a brandname radio or equipment where HV is involved, which are not even UL/CSA certifiable. One can build a power cord with it for OWN use if done properly.""

Nice try. I have read your posts completely and accurately. Internal parts are not the cert parts, it is the overall entity they are constructed of. Cat 5 is not UL certified for use as a power line cord. That has been my contention all along. You incorrectly assume that the words "UL...300V" means that the cat5 is useable for line cord duty, and you are incorrect in that. It is not recommended, it is unsafe, it is sheer stupidity to use it for line cord duty, or even claim that it is useful for that purpose.

cj:""I would never build a power cord with a CAT5, even for my own use as there are better material I can choose.""

We concur.

All of this hemmin and hawin and diverting...sheesh. Code is code, follow it or live with the risks..

And use the proper wire for the proper use.

Cheers, John

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Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - CAT-5 power cord? - gaul36918@excite.com 09:12:29 04/14/06 (46)

Re: CAT-5 power cord? - Zene 00:38:27 04/16/06 (1)

Your Home depot person gives advice??? Color me jealous. - jneutron 05:56:39 04/18/06 (0)

YES if you know how... - cheap-Jack 18:22:43 04/15/06 (39)

Dog Gone? - jea48 08:08:12 04/23/06 (0)

NO even if you know "how"... - Duster 13:25:31 04/16/06 (37)

Don't you know : CAT5 is rated for 300VAC RMS UL/FT1? - cheap-Jack 08:21:40 04/17/06 (36)

cheap-Jack , the deeper you dig the hole, the harder to get out. LOL, LOL....nt. - jea48 18:36:24 04/17/06 (3)

Come up with your argument or .. - cheap-Jack 18:51:30 04/17/06 (2)

No way, I'm not getting in there with you. You're on your own..LoL..nt. - jea48 20:10:13 04/17/06 (1)

Why chicken out? Just smoking mirror? (nt) - cheap-Jack 06:29:04 04/18/06 (0)

Re: Don't you know : CAT5 is rated for 300VAC RMS UL/FT1? - jneutron 09:08:52 04/17/06 (31)

You worry too much. - cheap-Jack 11:18:46 04/17/06 (30)

Actually, I am quite aware of the issues surrounding this topic. - jneutron 11:49:33 04/17/06 (29)

Re: Insurance issues - mls-stl 15:55:32 04/20/06 (9)

Re: Insurance issues - jneutron 07:26:56 04/21/06 (8)

Re: Insurance issues - mls-stl 09:53:26 04/21/06 (7)

Blanket statements are often a poor choice... - racerguy 11:37:21 04/22/06 (1)

I doubt he will revise his statement. - jneutron 13:31:24 04/26/06 (0)

Silly - jneutron 11:09:10 04/21/06 (4)

Re: Res Ipsa Loquitur - mls-stl 13:52:37 04/21/06 (3)

Sometimes a simple little derogatory quip.. - jneutron 14:26:27 04/21/06 (2)

Re: Sometimes a simple little derogatory quip.. - mls-stl 15:41:16 04/21/06 (1)

Re: Sometimes a simple little derogatory quip.. - jneutron 06:46:52 04/24/06 (0)

What an arguement! - cheap-Jack 13:20:56 04/17/06 (18)

Re: What an arguement! - jneutron 13:59:06 04/17/06 (17)

Too academic, my friend. - cheap-Jack 09:10:35 04/19/06 (12)

Actually, not.. - jneutron 10:13:12 04/19/06 (11)

By chance , - jea48 20:26:31 04/19/06 (1)

Yes, I have read it. - jneutron 06:12:03 04/20/06 (0)

Chances are we get killed in car accidents more than lightning. - cheap-Jack 13:55:32 04/19/06 (8)

Re: Chances are we get killed in car accidents more than lightning. - jea48 19:55:31 04/19/06 (1)

Don't laugh so soon even if you won the BIG one. - cheap-Jack 06:57:37 04/20/06 (0)

So that justifies playing golf in a thunderstorm.. - jneutron 14:33:56 04/19/06 (4)

Don't wear anything metallic when exposed to a thunder-storm. - cheap-Jack 15:27:04 04/20/06 (1)

That is an urban legend - jneutron 06:55:34 04/21/06 (0)

Yes, "It seems silly, But that's what we have to live with." - cheap-Jack 09:21:08 04/20/06 (1)

Re: Yes, "It seems silly, But that's what we have to live with." - jneutron 11:36:35 04/20/06 (0)

You are kidding, yes? - clifff 14:06:25 04/19/06 (0)

Why "flashover" all the time? - cheap-Jack 08:51:00 04/19/06 (3)

Good questions. - jneutron 09:46:51 04/19/06 (2)

Followup on that 6000 volt spike thingy. - jneutron 11:04:19 04/19/06 (0)

silly me..it's NFPA 70E, not NEC..duh...nt - jneutron 10:23:34 04/19/06 (0)

Re: CAT-5 power cord? - pburke 10:43:44 04/14/06 (0)

Not rated for line voltage. - Al Sekela 10:17:50 04/14/06 (0)

Don't do it. - ChrisVH 09:20:22 04/14/06 (1)

Re: Don't do it. - zanash 18:09:30 04/14/06 (0)

Follow Ups

Re: Yes, "It seems silly, But that's what we have to live with." - jneutron 11:36:35 04/20/06 (0)

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