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45$ Best Buy speakers playing!

69.236.66.112
Posted on June 11, 2006 at 14:56:48
Scott Woebcke


 
Aint no joke these speakers are a steal. The cabinets are nicely finished but not the most dead. I suspect the x-over and driver could be transfered to a better box and sound would improve. For the price there is little reason to bother.I think this speaker comapres with those in the 100-300 range. I can't wait to run them with my tube amp. Vocals are pretty solid. Damn right there is some sibilance. Remember at 50$ a pair out the door what you get. Quite honestly these are a damn fine buy. The drivers alone are worth 50$. The carbon and rubber surround looks awsome. The coaxial design lends to a very well integrated sound. I can hear a 2-way box without the distinct separatings of tweeter and woofer. It is a bit directional but simply sweet sounding. I dont think there is every going to be a better deal on these. If they have them when I get my next paycheck I am going to buy another pair in case I damage them. I would like to see these reviewed on TNT with higher end electronics. I think they will have to acknowledge this is the best buy for the budget minded audiophile. These are a fun musical speaker. I am glad I bought them. They arent broken in yet. One inmate claims the Infinity Primus is better sounding. I don't know because I havent heard them but to me they are ugly. These speakers look good with the grills off and sound better too. I am really glad somebody posted about these. Thanks for trying them and reporting back. Now we can help all poor audiophiles by recommending these speakers. They are wonderful. Anybody who complains about lacking this and that is crazy. 50$ a pair! All I can say is 50$ you are getting more than you pay for. Now off to enjoy the music before work...

 

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Care to give us #, 45$ means nothing., posted on June 11, 2006 at 15:03:42
Zene
Audiophile

Posts: 462
Location: Goodd Old NW
Joined: January 15, 2004
 NT

 

Insignia NS-B2111..., posted on June 11, 2006 at 15:31:02
gdahl
Audiophile

Posts: 488
Location: Silverdale, WA
Joined: October 9, 2000
 ...I picked up a pair at BB this afternoon but haven't taken them out of the box yet.

Gary Dahl
"So many tubes, so little time..."

 

Yup those are them enjoy...expect more than 45$ sound, posted on June 11, 2006 at 15:35:16
Scott Woebcke


 
The coaxial makes them sound a bit directional but much more enjoyable than poorly integrated tweeters/woofer spacing. I dont know what to say other than than these are going to be recommended time and time again for the low disposable income audiophile. I bet they sound great with tubes. I can't wait to run them with my Jolida after it gets repaired. The cabinets do vibrate some. Rope caulk around the driver would probably improve the sound. I also think a small ring of felt around the coaxial might help a little bit. It appears the woofer is untreated that could be another tweak but might damage the sound. You try it first :) Don't hesitate to get them out of the boxes.

 

What are the real dimensions? The info say 18" tall and 12" wide! *, posted on June 11, 2006 at 16:11:33
mr grits
 .
Ex nihilo, nihil fit . . .

 

Those dimensions are wrong, posted on June 11, 2006 at 16:24:23
hesson11
Audiophile

Posts: 2281
Location: Florida
Joined: December 8, 2005
 Actual dimensions are 13-1/4 high by 8-3/4 wide by 11 deep.

I've listened to mine, and I guess for 50 bucks, they're okay so far. I haven't really played with placement, and thry're right out of the box, so I'll reserve judgment. Right now, they sound hooty and tinny, and I can't get a good center image. The instruments cluster around each speaker, with not much sense of depth or height. But, as I say, I have not experimented with placement or broken them in. So take this for what it's worth, if anything. I just don't think anyone should run out and buy them expecting some sort of revelation right out of the box. Maybe with time...
-Bob

 

Thanks. I knew 18X12 was nowhere in the park. These puppies were $39 Saturday night . . ., posted on June 11, 2006 at 16:55:05
mr grits
 I'll bet this forum spiked their stats and they upped it.



Ex nihilo, nihil fit . . .

 

You Have To Be Kidding, Right ?, posted on June 11, 2006 at 17:29:50
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 How can you have a problem getting a center image with a small driver, unless they are miles apart ?
They do take about two days of playing to open up, but they were good here right out of the box.

BTW, I own 6 pairs of speakers, VMPS RM 40's, Von Schweikert Vortex Screens, Magnepan SMG A's, Klipsch CF 3's, and B&W 801's, and Von Schweikert VR 4JR's.

In my small room, they needed to be well out from rear wall because they were actually overloading the room with bass.
I do have them on 24 inch Sound Anchor stands that weigh 100 lbs apiece.
They are definitely voiced to be out from the rear wall, and I have em toed in to fire directly at me.

This is their third day, and the tweeter is really turning on as it breaks in.

Just play em, and let em break in, it gets better!


 

Re: Those dimensions are wrong, posted on June 11, 2006 at 18:26:57
AJinFLA
 >Right now, they sound hooty and tinny, and I can't get a good center image.

I suspect you may have the polarity reversed on one of your speakers. Check your wires!
The one thing you are almost guaranteed to have with a coax is strong center image.
Otherwise you might have a faulty unit.

cheers,

AJ

 

BTW, this is the 3RD thread about these speakers, posted on June 11, 2006 at 18:33:22
AJinFLA
 It would be nice if they could be combined so that info isn't repeated.
Or at least not have anyone start yet another thread when three already exist.
Thread one for those not paying attention :-)

 

Re: BTW, this is the 3RD thread about these speakers, posted on June 11, 2006 at 18:34:28
AJinFLA
 Thread two

 

It will probably be $60 by next week LOL, posted on June 11, 2006 at 18:38:30
AJinFLA
 If this keeps up.
Hey, I got mine...:-)

cheers,

AJ

 

Well, no, actually., posted on June 11, 2006 at 18:56:21
hesson11
Audiophile

Posts: 2281
Location: Florida
Joined: December 8, 2005
 Not kidding. Again, please keep in mind that I just took them out of the box and plopped them down in the usual spots: well away from the walls and in a 1-to-1.5 triangle, 66 inches apart, 99 inches from the listening position. Since then, they've been playing to each other out of phase in my bedroom system, breaking in. I haven't played with position at all, and I'm not criticizing the speakers, just reporting my first few minutes of listening.

They were, of course, wired in phase when I listened.

By the way, your speaker collection trumps mine! Maggie 2.6/R, NHT SuperTwos (and a pair of Spendor SP3/1Ps in transit).
-Bob

 

this must be the fourth., posted on June 11, 2006 at 19:06:57
mac  


 
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/99379.html

 

Bwaa haaa haa!!!! I got you ALL beat!!!, posted on June 11, 2006 at 19:55:39
TopPop
Audiophile

Posts: 859
Location: Chambana, IL
Joined: December 5, 2002
 I picked mine up for $30!
Yeah, I read the post before I went to work today (Best Buy), and lo, and behold... they just brought them out!
I got my pair breaking in right now. Out of phase, facing each other, and all that good stuff.
I really don't know how they were able to put that kind of quality together for so little. A recap of what has been noted:

-WBT style compression binding posts
-Curved back, MDF cabinet w/ internal bracing and acoustic damping foam
-6 1/2" carbon fiber driver w/ rubber surround
-Coaxial design with tweeter mounted in a phase plug in center of mid driver

Good stuff. This will be used in a rinky-dink 2 channel HT system in a couple of months, since I will be moving to a two-bedroom apartment, using one of the bedrooms for the stereo system... the stereo music system, mind you... the TV and DVD player will be nowhere to be found in that room.

Cheers,
Chris

"Music is God's gift to man, the only art of Heaven given to earth, the only art of earth we take to Heaven."
-Walter Savage Landor

 

$3800 isn't bad for a two way, posted on June 11, 2006 at 20:42:44
johnnybravo


 
OOPS! I was thinking of $3800 for a Merlin TSM-MX, not $38.00.

Merlins are probably 100 times better. :-)

 

Re: BTW, this is the 3RD thread about these speakers, posted on June 11, 2006 at 21:00:21
Bill the K
Audiophile

Posts: 8385
Joined: June 3, 2006
 Here goes one more.Cannot understand why you guys are so stingy.You can get much better speakers for a little more, like Infinity, PSB,Paradigm, Klipsch,Polk et al.Perhaps you want to take the uniQ driver out and try a new cabinet.It would be great if one of those designs sound like Wilson Puppy. Yeah,someday one of us might do it.Best Regards

 

Watch OUT Orion !!!, posted on June 11, 2006 at 21:01:40
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Party's over Mac!
There are already plans to "Open Baffle" this Uni Q driver, Orion Style!
It will be mated with a full blown knock off Nesterovich woofer system, using very large X Max Chinese Drivers, and powerful Malaysian Sunfire Clone amps!
It will be sold at Best Buy for 299.00 a pair!


 

Re: Well, no, actually., posted on June 11, 2006 at 21:09:02
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 The 2.6r Maggies have escaped me!
I had MG3A's, way too bright for me.
I really like the SMGA's but they are too small for main system, and too big for small room.

Many consider the 2.6 to be the best Maggie ever!

What are you powering the Maggies with ?


 

Re: Well, no, actually., posted on June 11, 2006 at 21:24:31
hesson11
Audiophile

Posts: 2281
Location: Florida
Joined: December 8, 2005
 You may have seen the Jim Whiney quote that floats around the Internet claiming he said the 2.6/R was the best speaker they every made. Well, he told that to me personally when he was in town visiting their local dealer. Of course, that was when the 2.6/R was still in production, so I don't know whether he'd say the same today.

I use an Aragon 2004; about 12 years old but still quite nice. I really love the Maggies, but my wierdo room configuration means I've got to shlep them into position when I listen. It took me a long time to find the right position for them, but now they yield a wonderfully smooth, balanced response. But since I'm getting a bit tired of shlepping, I use the SuperTwos quite a bit, and I really think they're one of the most under-rated speakers around.

Still keeping an open mind about the Insignias!
-Bob

 

The revelation is simple, posted on June 11, 2006 at 22:40:36
Scott Woebcke


 
If these were produced as a low end line from a high end manufacture they would cost a lot more. They don't image like demons but they don't sound horrible. What should be appreciated is the quality drivers/cabinet for the price. They sound more than appropriate for 50$. In a small room like mine...with a horrible acoustic situation they sound nice. These speakers deserve a big thumbs for the proper design and price. I would say the manufacture compromised very little for the price. Heck the binding posts might not be the most solid audiophile grade but they beat my low wend b&w monitors. I will be appreciating these speakers for a very long time. No audiophile should knock these speakers. Remember a 50$ magic cd purifier costs the same but doesnt serve much purpose. These are a great bargain. Let them rot out in the garage, they are cheap and cheerful as budget audio should be. The cabinets arent the most dead material but hey why complain! 50$ is a steal. They are nice and anybody who complains about lacking certain qualities has got to be seriously anal. I know most audiophiles are anal but heck these speakers have a great function. Peasant audiophiles can afford something nice. I pride myself in these third world boxes because they are honestly the best speaker on the market for the money. Find another speaker new in the box for 50$ of this quality and I will be very surprised. I could have bought a pair of vintage Wharfdales yesterday for 40$ at my local thrift but am glad I found these on this site. The hype these speakers deserve is not the most awsome musical presentation but the most reasonable price on the market. Lets be rational. 50$ for nice speakers to many people is a lot of money. Hard working people with little cash are getting the same quality sound as the vintage KLH days. Lets rejoice for a moment and put the audiophile aside and truly enjoy the music.

 

I hope you are not kidding!!!!!!!!!!!, posted on June 11, 2006 at 22:42:01
Scott Woebcke


 
I know you are and goddamnit thats not funny!

 

Re: Well, no, actually., posted on June 11, 2006 at 22:52:51
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 You have two EXCELLENT speakers there!
Of course, the little 50 dollar Insignia's are no match for my VMPS RM 40's or Von Schweikerts, but for what they are, they do good.
I swear to God, these little Bastards really image.
Of course, the Uni Q was noted for it's imaging capabilities.

I am using them in my small living room. hooked to the excellent JVC RX DP 9 receiver.
Maybe the really good Sound Anchor stands are helping out, but I am gettting a pretty good sound with outstanding imaging, so far.

The NHT Super 2 is an outstanding speaker as well, but also costs more too.

The Magnepan/Aragon combo is a classic, and a 4004 would be even better yet.


Karen at Magnepan uses it on her MG3A's.

My JVC RX DP 9 is an excellent receiver, more like an Integrated amp.
It blew away every other receiver I have ever owned, including Harman Kardon AVR 7000, Denon's, Yamaha;s, etc.
it really is a nice underrated piece with a built in oversampling Dac you can switch on and off!

Weighs about 50 lbs too, and will drive 4 ohms all day long.
It even tries to run the big VMPS RM 40's.

I use a big Moscode 600 on them.

My family room is 24 by 20, and I keep my big toys in there.
I just love the little magnepan SMG a's, but they look stupid in that big ass room!
They are too big for the small living room because they need to be out into the room.

I just can't bear to sell them, or any of my stuff, but I have been out of room for years because of all this stuff, LOL

I am going to be selling off a lot of stuff, I have to!


BTW, they little Insignia's are playing out in the living room, and sound great way down the hall into the master bedroom!

It took 3 days of almost constant loud playing to turn the tweeters on!

They will open up.

I don't really think they will beat the NHT's, and certainly not the Maggies either.

But for 50 bucks ......

 

I So Totally Agree !, posted on June 11, 2006 at 23:14:33
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 We, as Audiophiles should jump for joy!
Look at how easy it will be to get a friend, relative, etc, in to our hobby now!

A Pair of these and a low priced Panasonic or JVC digital receiver, and even the financially unwilling or unable can enjoy decent sound.

Let's put our snobbery aside, they aint Von Schweikerts or Magnepans for sure, but they are decent.

You can bet that this, and other Internet threads have not escaped the brilliant minds of our speaker modifiers!

If these little guys bring in new blood to our hobby, we sure as shit need it!

Many of us, and me included, have unknowingly become "snobs", totally alienating the newcomers to our hobby.

The new guys must carry on for us if our hobby is to survive.

Thousands will be buying these, many newcomers.'
Let's encourage this new blood, and not make them feel like crap, just because their 50 dollar speakers dont smoke our megabuck wonders.

We all had to crawl before we walked.

It has been a long time since have seen this amount of excitement over a new budget product.

This is a good thing for the Asylum and our hobby, so lets run with it.

Maybe some can go get a pair, and we might collectively come up with improvements, and inexpensive amp/wire/stand choices that sound good, so when these audio newcomers do arrive, they will be greeted with suggestions for improvements, not flames.

 

Not Sure I Totally Agree ?, posted on June 11, 2006 at 23:27:36
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 I have some Infinity Primus 150's here, and they are not convincingly better, in all ways.
For one, these smoke em on bass, and Imaging.
Highs are just a tad better on the Infinity's, but these are getting better as they break in.
The Infinity midrange is different, much lighter sounding.
Some would say the Infinity Primus is more transparent.

The Insignia's are much warmer sounding, more "British"
They out image, out bass, and play much louder then the Primus 150's.
They also look cooler, and more expersive.

My Son, who has my 801's on "loan" in his living room, has Infinity IL 10 bookshelfs in the bed room.

After hearing these, he went and bought some right away.
The IL 10's are now in his closet!

The Paradigm Atom is a strange speaker, it sounds like the bass and treble are permanately turned up, LOL

It can be impressive on SOME recordings, but it's intentional colorations make musical enjoyment impossible, long term.

It is designed to "blow one away" in a showroom so you buy it, but once you get it home, you must fear any bright, boomy recording.

The Insignia never, "shows it's ass" so to speak, it is very neutral, except for a mid bass peak, easily tamed by simply placing it well away from room boundaries.

For 50 bucks, nothing I have ever heard will touch it, or even come close.

 

Now ... let the tweaking begin!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 04:42:43
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Who's gonna be first?

(Remember the Toshiba 3950?)

 

Or buy the expensive version, posted on June 12, 2006 at 05:22:27
Pjay
Audiophile

Posts: 2415
Location: Northern VA
Joined: June 29, 2000
 http://www.radiient.com/s.nl/it.A/id.23/.f?sc=2&category=30

$399. Looks like the same thing. Wonder how many they are selling?

P

My speaker building site

speaker icon

 

Re: 45$ Best Buy speakers playing!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 05:49:29
jim@signalpath
Manufacturer

Posts: 268
Location: Southeast
Joined: August 21, 2005
BB is "buying" customers with this product. They probably aren't making anything off the sale of those speakers.....just using them to lure a certain kind of customer in to the store in hopes that they'll plant the seed for a later purchase. They didn't become the world's largest CE specialist retailer by mistake.

If they find out it has audiophile bargain basement appeal they'll shift the outlet to their Magnolia stores.

 

Okay, Okay., posted on June 12, 2006 at 06:16:11
Danny
Manufacturer

Posts: 434
Joined: June 13, 2000
 I'll go pick up a pair.

I'll run them through the standard tests and post the measured responses on them.

I'll also see if there is a potential for an inexpensive way to take them up a notch or two.

I'll see if our local Best Buy has a pair out yet.

Hang in there until later this week.

Danny

 

I wonder what the difference is between the Best Buy speakers..., posted on June 12, 2006 at 07:02:29
The Real Dick Hertz
 appears to be pulling a fast one.

 

The speaker event I would like to attend, posted on June 12, 2006 at 07:51:27
DavidLD
Audiophile

Posts: 4884
Joined: May 29, 2002
 A collection of all these under $50 a pair current commercial speakers, the Best Buy $45 the pair Insignias, The Pioneers that often go for $28.98 the pair at Circuit City, Radio Shack's $40 the pair Presidians and similar. Throw in a few DIY projects with under $50 the pair driver cost. Add to the mix a few $20 the pair vintage speakers from the 70s picked up at Goodwill or Salvation Army. Then have a $50 or less the pair bakeoff.

Do this all in a room with a curtain so listeners couldn't see what they are listening to. Have paper ballots. Just to keep things interesting and have an honest comparison have the organizers toss in one or two pairs of highly regarded smaller bookshelf speakers costing several hundred dollars a pair, commercial, DIY or both.

I would contend in part that some of these ultra-low budget commercial and DIY designs are getting pretty good, and would fare more than ok if a test were truly blind.

I would be willing to donate $100 to purchase a couple different pairs of the ultra-low buck commercial designs for use at such an event, with the plan to give them away as door prizes at the end of the event, assuming we could collect some valid data from participants.

This could be even more fun than the cap test was.

 

GR Research Modified Insignia's = Grinsignia's ??, posted on June 12, 2006 at 08:00:52
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 If one takes the initials for GR Research and combines them with Insignia, it comes out to Grinsignia, a speaker that will bring smiles to your face, LOL

Anyway, way to go Danny!
They really change with break in, at least to my ears.
You might measure them right out of box, and then during and after break in ?
It seemed to take 3 days for my tweeter to "turn on"

It will be very interesting to see what they are all about ?
I am sure you will tell us if they are tube friendly, etc!

Thank you for caring about us Danny, I wish there were more companies like GR Research around!


 

They sure look alike!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 08:32:27
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 10283
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 :)

 

Maybe The Same Company ?, posted on June 12, 2006 at 09:17:11
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 They really do look like Radiants, w/o supertweeters.
I plan to call Radiant and find out.
If they did make em for Best Buy, I will thank them profusely!
This level of performance for under 50 bucks is a great service to the entire audio community.
I wonder if KEF is getting a royalty, or it may be that their Patent on the Uni Q has expired ?


 

I Didn't Know Best Buy Owned Magnolia ??, posted on June 12, 2006 at 09:20:16
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 I left Seattle in 1989 for good.
We affectionately called Magnolia Hi Fi in Seattle, "Fagnolia", LOL
So, Best Bi bought Fagnolia, LOL

 

Yup... and Future Shop. -nt-, posted on June 12, 2006 at 09:23:36
TopPop
Audiophile

Posts: 859
Location: Chambana, IL
Joined: December 5, 2002
 .

"Music is God's gift to man, the only art of Heaven given to earth, the only art of earth we take to Heaven."
-Walter Savage Landor

 

Now You Are Talking!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 09:27:01
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Great idea David.
It has been a long time since the Internet was buzzing over a cheap speaker!
The computer and inexpensive manufacturing/distribution techniques are revolutionizing the audio world.

This can only be good, as it brings in a whole new wave of music lovers to carry on for all us old men.

I bet the Pioneers are good too, they were designed by Andrew Jones!
Andrew Jones is now at TAD, and designed the Beryllium TAD model one.
It's only 50 grand.
He started at KEF, then followed Laurie Fincham to Infinity.
He did the crossover for the excellent Infinity Prelude PFR!

 

They Are NOT Radians ! I Just Talked To them!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 09:36:37
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Just called Radian, and they are NOT responsible.
The guy from Radian looked at Best Buys web site, and went "Holy Sheet"
He quickly added "They don't have supertweeters" like ours.
No, they don't have super tweeters, but they are 1/4 the cost too!

 

I Will Put My Money On Danny From GR Research, posted on June 12, 2006 at 09:46:36
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Danny has offered mods for some commercial speakers before.
He said he is going to go buy a pair, and examine them for their improvement potential.

Danny is quite thorough and knowledgeable, and he said he plans to measure them for frequency response, impedance, etc.

Mine really changed after 3 days of solid, pretty loud play.
It will be interesting to see the measured effects of break in ?
My tweeters just turned on, so to speak.
They were a tad dull and slow sounding right out of the box.

 

What is most interesting is . . ., posted on June 12, 2006 at 10:03:12
Pjay
Audiophile

Posts: 2415
Location: Northern VA
Joined: June 29, 2000
 that there is sooooo much hype over this when only one or two people have heard them, not reported on sound and nobody has measured them. We have generated a whole bunch of excitement over what at best is a cool looking unit.

I say this not simply because it had three thread here, but also has a thread on all the other speaker sites.

I see the enemy and they is us!

I bet there is some real excitement over at radiient :)

P

My speaker building site

speaker icon

 

Re: They Are NOT Radians ! I Just Talked To them!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 10:25:27
thomdp


 
The guy from Radiiant also didn't know that his company sells the exact same pair of speakers as Best Buy called the Helios without the Supertweeter.

I sent an email to them last night regarding the Best Buy speakers and have yet to receive a response.

If radiiant is NOT responsible for these, it sounds like Best Buy may be outsourcing to the same factory in China that makes the Radiiant models. In which case Best Buy is selling these speakers illegally. But that seems to be a far stretch.

Dennis

 

KEF Uni-Q Whitepaper, posted on June 12, 2006 at 12:19:47
ctbarker32
Audiophile

Posts: 289
Location: Kensington, MD
Joined: September 11, 2003

There's a nice writeup on Kef's Uni-Q technology that these Insignia seem to emulate over on the KEF website. It would be really interesting to know if this is licensed technology or original variation on a theme?

-CB

 

Do You Feel Threatened By These PJ ?, posted on June 12, 2006 at 12:39:54
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 I mean why would someone build a speaker, if they can buy something this good for under 50 dollars ?

Nothing against building speakers. I did it years ago growing up in Seattle, near Speaker Lab.

But, unless you buy a kit, and follow the recipe exactly, INCLUDING the box construction, your results will be mixed, at best.

I found out many years ago, that it usually takes many efforts to "get it right".

Being a Ham Radio Operator, we used to build our own equipment.
But if you just cant build something anymore that will out perform what you can buy, what's the point ?

What speaker can you possibly build for 39.99 that will look as good, and perform as well ?

NADA


 

Re: They Are NOT Radians ! I Just Talked To them!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 12:42:51
jmsent


 
Do these actually have a separate neo tweeter mounted on the pole piece like in the Uni-Q?
If so, they are in blatant infringement of the KEF Uni-Q patent, which is effective throughout the US and Europe. Unless of course, they are paying licensing fees. But in that case, there would be the word Uni-Q mentioned in the literature and on the speaker itself. If KEF gets wind of this, there could be big problems. They have strongly enforced this patent in the past and gone after knockoffs with major threats of legal action.

 

It's More Then Just A Few ..., posted on June 12, 2006 at 12:49:51
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Here is an Audiophile from Planar Asylum PJ, a die hard dipole man, a Magnepan owner.
See the Link Below ?
See what he has to say ?

Your suggestion to get them tested is in the works too.
Danny from GR Research is buying a pair, and posted that he will publish the goods on them.

As you are aware, there is excitement over speakers that measure poorly, like the Audio Notes for instance ?
Their owners love them, yet Atkinson in Stereophile measured them, and they weren't all that and a bag of chips.
SET's measure bad, but some love the sound ?


 

Not necessarily, posted on June 12, 2006 at 13:16:21
Pallas
Audiophile

Posts: 27
Location: United Nations member state
Joined: October 4, 2004
 The Radiiant site may have them, but what's to say that it's not a stock design by a Chinese (presumably) OEM that Radiiant is marketing?

However, the question of the UniQ patent is more interesting. After all, while Tom Brennan says that there were similar drivers in the past (and I don't doubt him, though I also wouldn't consider something with a waveguide in the polepiece like a Tannoy Dual to be super-similar), there's also the reality that KEF shut down a previous knockoff UniQ maker (Synchron, which used to be available through almost all of the DIY speaker suppliers here - Madisound, A&S/Just Speakers, MCM, and maybe PE, too) and Seas pays for their rights to the design. Then again, Thiel does a riff on the UniQ as well, and I don't know if they pay for it or not. (Maybe they get around it because the woofer's underhung.)

As an aside, I haven't tried these speakers, and don't intend to. For my money, the best budget speakers were the KEF Q-Compacts, with their cast frame/vented spider Uni-Q's, shorting rings in the woofer motors, and far better build quality than KEF's older Q-series, a trio of which I owned from 1997 until last month. (Traded 'em for a Peerless XLS-based subwoofer.) Not to say that I wouldn't try these speakers if I didn't already have all of the speakers I need, and then some.

 

Re: Okay, Okay., posted on June 12, 2006 at 13:16:39
FredT


 
Can't wait to hear what you find. I expected the glossy front panel to be thin decorative plastic, but surprisingly it's solid mdf, so you actually have a 1" total thickness baffle. It's held in place by the four grill mounting posts (use a 3mm allen wrench to loosen these) and a bit of glue between the driver and the port. Removing it requires a bit of coaxing around the edges with a wide blade screwdriver.

The crossover board is thin and is hot glued to a brace inside the enclosure. I didn't want to break it, so I examined the crossover in place with a mirror and light. Both the woofer and tweeter sections appear to be second order, with an iron core inductor in the woofer section and an air core for the tweeter (unless I just couldn't see the iron core in the smaller inductor). The caps are electrolytics. There's an 8 ohm ten watt wirewound, which I assume is the tweeter padding resistor. There is also a small device at one end of the resistor, which may be a protection-type circuit breaker. I suspect the only cost effective upgrade for a $45 pair of speakers will be to replace the tweeter cap with an inexpensive metallized polypropylene and to bypass the cicruit breaker.

The enclosure sides have deep sawblade cuts about 1/8" apart running from top to bottom, which enabled the builder to curve the side panels. Using a finger to push some filler like rope putty into the cuts probably would deaden the side panels.

They sound surprisingly good with high end electonics. Tomorrow I'll dig out my $80 Sherwood receiver and Swenson-modded Toshiba 3950 DVD player to see what a po' folks $200 total high end system sounds like.

 

Re: They Are NOT Radians ! I Just Talked To them!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 13:31:04
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 no one loves KEF more then me.
I met Raymond Cook years ago, but he is dead.
Laurie Fincham is gone, and so is Andrew Jones.
I heard KEF was bought out by the Japanese.

But with all due respect, lets see em try and take on Best Buy, LOL
What is probably happening is the KEF patent expired ?
Uni Q's have been around for some time now, maybe they aren't protected anymore ?

I would like to see KEF at least get the credit for these, and we should all be grateful to Raymond Cook, Laurie Fincham, and Andrew Jones for all their dilligent work on the Uni Q driver.

I bet if we could get into Heaven, and talk to Raymond Cook, he would be pleased that his invention has become so affordable to so many!

He was not a greedy man, and quite the music lover too.

 

I'm not Pjay., posted on June 12, 2006 at 13:38:21
mrr
Audiophile

Posts: 550
Location: SW Washington
Joined: August 11, 2004
 I'm bb. I like the sounds these new Insignia's are making as I run them in. I'm having fun playing. The Insignia's sound wonderful on The Charlie Byrd Trio's au courant CD on the Concord label. Chuck Redd's vibraphone really shimmers. That said, they'll never replace my Maggies.

bb

 

Re: I'm not Pjay., posted on June 12, 2006 at 13:59:52
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 No, they will not, but for 50 bucks ....
I too have several pairs of mega snob speakers, but I am having fun too!
I like em because they are so forgiving!
Nothing sounds real bad on them, and most stuff i have played sounds pretty good.

The thing I like most is their disappearing act.
In my room, they vanish, leaving sound floating in place.
Best 50 bucks i ever spent.

 

Re: 45$ Best Buy speakers playing!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 14:25:43
earwax


 
http://cgi.ebay.com/KEF-Q-Compact-Speaker-like-new_W0QQitemZ9740452128QQihZ008QQcategoryZ14991QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Re: 45$ Best Buy speakers playing!KEF-Q-Compact-Speaker, posted on June 12, 2006 at 14:29:51
earwax


 
http://cgi.ebay.com/KEF-Q-Compact-Speaker-like-new_W0QQitemZ9740452128QQihZ008QQcategoryZ14991QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Re: Not necessarily, posted on June 12, 2006 at 14:33:32
tex-amp
Audiophile

Posts: 27
Location: Houston
Joined: February 8, 2005
 I think you are right. The speakers Radiient is selling are being sold in Europe under another name for less. http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=42380.0

These seem to be the surrounds from the HT packages Radiient is selling.

I bought a pair today and they are very good for >$50. I hear a little cabinet resonance and a bass bump but imaging and clarity is very nice with 1 hour on them so far. Should go great with the $75 Panny XR-25 I bought off Craig'slist, and a $30 open box Toshiba DVD I score for the bedroom.

 

Well I am Pjay, I think, posted on June 12, 2006 at 15:16:27
Pjay
Audiophile

Posts: 2415
Location: Northern VA
Joined: June 29, 2000
 Zeph over at DIYaudio completed the measurements. I may buy a pair just of the cabinet and toss the driver. At that price, the cabinets are a steal.

Thanks,

P

My speaker building site

speaker icon

 

??, posted on June 12, 2006 at 15:19:06
Pjay
Audiophile

Posts: 2415
Location: Northern VA
Joined: June 29, 2000
 Threatened by a speaker? I think not. I do my best, enjoy the hobby. Cut wood. sand, finish, tune, voice. Sell a few here and there to clear the room. These might be the best speakers ever and it will have zero effect on me.

P

My speaker building site

speaker icon

 

The link, posted on June 12, 2006 at 15:24:41
jkaschyk
Audiophile

Posts: 339
Joined: April 16, 2005
 is here.

 

A Steal For $45 (pic), posted on June 12, 2006 at 16:29:59
PeteG
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Location: Colorado
Joined: July 17, 2003
 These are a steal for $45, they need some break-in time.


http://www.audiocircle.com/albums/albun90/insig1.sized.jpg

http://www.audiocircle.com/albums/albun90/insig2.sized.jpg

http://www.audiocircle.com/albums/albun90/insig3.sized.jpg

 

Re: Well, no, actually., posted on June 12, 2006 at 17:00:08
hesson11
Audiophile

Posts: 2281
Location: Florida
Joined: December 8, 2005
 I'm not expecting them to be competitive with the Maggies or the SuperTwos, but I am looking forward to hearing them after a bit of playing time, when I can do more experimenting with position, etc.

Glad to hear someone shares my high opinion of the SuperTwos. They're not world-beaters, but they do so many things right and so damn few things wrong, that I've really grown fond of them. Amazingly good for $700 or whatever I paid!

But I am really looking forward the the Spendors I have on the way. I'm a classical-music guy, and the concensus seems to be the Spendors are outstanding on classical.
-Bob

 

Okay, got'em, tested them, took the measurements., posted on June 12, 2006 at 17:13:11
Danny
Manufacturer

Posts: 434
Joined: June 13, 2000
 Okay I picked up a pair earlier today at the local Best Buy.

The funny part was when the cashier asked if I wanted the extended warranty. I laughed. Out of curiosity though I asked how much it was. It was $29. extra. I did not opt for the extra coverage. :-)

For starters they are packed well and look nice.

My first issue I had with them was how resonant the box was. There is a single brace centered between the drivers but it was still pretty hollow sounding. The grove cut and folded sides leaves a lot to be desired. They are going to require some work to get that hollow resonation out of them. Some No Rez might do the trick there.

First I did an impedance sweep. This looked pretty good.

http://www.gr-research.com/images/insignia impedance.jpg

The tuning frequency was at 58Hz and the minimum impedance dip was on the tweeter end and was 5.45 ohms.

Next I took a frequency response. Here is a curve of each speaker taken with 1 watt and at 1 meter.

http://www.gr-research.com/images/insignia pair.jpg

Not bad for pair matching, but a little rough. That peak at 840Hz is going to be annoying especially since it is followed by a 5db drop. The tweeters response is pretty rough too but keeps a good average. On the bright side it is within +/-3db (an industry standard), but it is pretty rough.

Then I wondered if any of the roughness was due to a resonance that was not being controlled or if it was just amplitude unevenness.

See spectral decay:

http://www.gr-research.com/images/insignia decay.jpg

The only real resonance problem was at the peak at 840Hz. Some of this might be fixable if attenuated well.

A higher order network might take care of a lot of it, or it may need a little impedance trap or LCR network there to fix that.

Popping it open and the network out, it looked like second order on each driver, but running the traces proved it to be not the case. The two small electrolytic caps (a 1.5uF and a 2.2uF) were used to make one value. The tweeter had a second order network but the woofer had a first order.

I'll see if there is something that can be done with these to fix the problems, and get them closer to an accurate response without spending too much on them. If one were to have to spend a couple of hundred dollars on them plus labor to get them up to speed then it really wouldn't be worth it.

As a frame of reference the X-LS speaker from AV123 is only $199. a pair. It uses much higher quality drivers, is in a much nicer looking and vary well braced enclosure, and is far more accurate.

Here is a comparison. The Gray line is the Insignia and the Red line is the X-LS

http://www.gr-research.com/images/insigversesxls.jpg

If I can put together an upgrade for these though that puts higher quality components in front of these drivers and do so for very little money then it still might be worth it and fun for the customer. It needs to be as cheap as possible otherwise it wouldn't be worth it. I might have to sell half of a sheet of No Rez to fix the enclosure resonation problem...

Stay tuned.

 

Interesting. Thanks. \nt/, posted on June 12, 2006 at 17:37:43
deaf_j
Audiophile

Posts: 467
Location: La Porte (Houston)
Joined: January 30, 2005
 .
Regards, Jerry

 

I wass JUST Kidding!, posted on June 12, 2006 at 18:32:18
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Just wanted to have sum fun!
You do us all a great service with your site.

 

Re: Okay, got'em, tested them, took the measurements., posted on June 12, 2006 at 18:40:27
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Thanks Danny!

Maybe just for kicks, measure them again when they have fully broken in ?
Mine sure changed sound wise after 3 days of play.

 

Burn in time, posted on June 12, 2006 at 19:38:36
Danny
Manufacturer

Posts: 434
Joined: June 13, 2000
 While the sound of them will change after burn in. The measured frequency response does not.

 

It's all about the 12 foot line array version. See pic..., posted on June 12, 2006 at 19:47:33
Rob Thomas
Audiophile

Posts: 2988
Location: The West
Joined: April 6, 2000

Get four for $1100...
"Let me help..."

 

In general, do you read ANY spec. measurement changes after burn in? (nt), posted on June 12, 2006 at 20:03:20
Rob Thomas
Audiophile

Posts: 2988
Location: The West
Joined: April 6, 2000
 nt
"Let me help..."

 

Just got mine home . . . for $45 they look sooper! China could build a Rolls for $2,995 . . ., posted on June 12, 2006 at 20:11:01
mr grits
 Them looking sharp is a clever illusion. From the sofa they almost look piano high-end. The sound is so-so yet they do image okay and have a fairly boomy kick. For the money, wow! I've only played these beasts an hour so there's more to break in and hear.

You could easily sell these all day at a $100 a pop on looks alone. On my 24" stands they are perfectly at ear height, when you stand the highs go bye-bye (it's that old coaxial thing). Speaking of highs--I know why Radient puts the super tweet on it--adds air and height.

Good dorm speakers as they look good, sound "ok", and cost nothing.


Ex nihilo, nihil fit . . .

 

nice photoshopwork but in reality the, posted on June 12, 2006 at 20:14:40
snkby


 
array would sound like crap due to the very wide distances between the tweeters.

just dont want to get anybodies hopes up that it would work well for cheap.

sorry.

 

Re: In general, do you read ANY spec. measurement changes after burn in? (nt), posted on June 12, 2006 at 20:23:20
Rick Craig
Manufacturer

Posts: 96
Location: North Carolina
Joined: November 22, 2002
 This is one of the great myths in audio. There are sometimes measueable changes that can occur in the driver suspensions; however, they tend to factor out and thus there's little if any response change. This happens fairly quickly if the input level is high enough, only a few minutes. Other than that there are no measureable changes. If something sounds different it's probably because you're becoming more familiar with the speaker's sound. You may hear things you haven't noticed before because your level of concentration has increased.

 

Re: Burn in time, posted on June 12, 2006 at 20:32:06
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Well if the sound will indeed change after break in, and you can't measure it, then why ?
If measurements are a valid indicator of how something will sound, shouldn't we be able to measure the effects of speaker break in ?

 

So Then Rick, Why Do You Give A 30 Day Trial On Your Speakers ?, posted on June 12, 2006 at 20:43:12
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 What I am hearing is that if I played your speakers loud for say half an hour, and didn't like em, why prolong the agony ?

If what you are saying is correct, then a half hour burn in, followed by a night of playing different music should tell the tale ?

Of course, it does take some time to move em around the room ... but 30 days ?
What for, if it only takes half an hour to tell the tale ?

 

Re: Burn in time, posted on June 12, 2006 at 21:59:16
Danny
Manufacturer

Posts: 434
Joined: June 13, 2000
 I'll start with woofers, it is mechanical and easy to understand.

A woofer does not burn in within the first few minutes of play but can take 50 to 100 hours. The measured T/S parameters will shift. Some shift in one direction and some in another. Optimal box volume and or tuning frequency changes little as the changes can cancel one another out. Where you might see some measured difference in frequency response is in a really low region that is hard to accurately measure in the first place. How it sounds does change.

Capacitors can change quite a bit as well during burn in, but the measured value will remain the same.

Most anyone with good gear and an ear to hear with always report a smoothing out of the top end after many hours of burn in. This is due to the caps burning in.

I have the luxury of often having identical pairs of speakers for audition. If one pair is burned in for many hours then compared to the one that is not, then there is an obvious difference in how they sound, but their measured responses are the same as they were before in regard to output level.

Danny

 

Re: So Then Rick, Why Do You Give A 30 Day Trial On Your Speakers ?, posted on June 13, 2006 at 04:36:31
Rick Craig
Manufacturer

Posts: 96
Location: North Carolina
Joined: November 22, 2002
 The sane reason any other company has for a trial period - to see if the speakers perform well on a variety of recorded material and match your listenong room / preferences.

 

You'll have to fix the rattle at 800Hz then, posted on June 13, 2006 at 04:42:23
Schu
Reviewer

Posts: 868
Location: NE
Joined: January 17, 2006
 These do look curious, don't they. I find this amusing. I'm currently working on an enclosure that is a similar shape (rounded in the back) but floorstanding. The price of those $45 speakers doesn't even come close to what I'm spending on materials alone for my cabinets. Sheesh.
Bill

 

Re: They Are NOT Radians ! I Just Talked To them!, posted on June 13, 2006 at 05:01:44
jmsent


 
>no one loves KEF more then me.
>I met Raymond Cook years ago, but he is dead.
>Laurie Fincham is gone, and so is Andrew Jones.
>I heard KEF was bought out by the Japanese.

KEF is now owned by KH industries which is a UK subsidiary of Gold Peak, a Hong Kong company. They were bought in the early 90's. KH also owns Celestion.

>But with all due respect, lets see em try and take on Best Buy, LOL

Don't be so sure they wouldn't. As I said, KH has strongly defended their Uni-Q patent in the past. And they have the law on their side. Besides, they would probably go after the manufacturer rather than Best Buy.

>What is probably happening is the KEF patent expired ?
>Uni Q's have been around for some time now, maybe they aren't protected anymore ?

Absolutely not. Their patent is still in force. The US UniQ patent was only granted in 1998 and has a long way to go before expiring.

>I would like to see KEF at least get the credit for these, and we should all be grateful to >Raymond Cook, Laurie Fincham, and Andrew Jones for all their dilligent work on the Uni >Q driver.

That's what royalties are all about, and the crux of the discussion. However, keep in mind that the scope of the UniQ patent is very narrow. It only covers the use of a neodymium tweeter on the pole of a woofer with the acoustic centers of both roughly aligned. Change the magnet material, the motor design, or unalign the acoustic center and you get around the patent. Which is why I asked the question about the tweeter in the first place.

 

Curious How They Compare To My Cheapest Set, posted on June 13, 2006 at 06:23:28
Robertc88


 
B&W DM302 bookshelf speakers I'm using in my bedroom system. I think I paid $200 for the pair if I remember correctly from years ago.

Guess it couldn't hurt to try them out. I can always sell the B&W speakers if these pan out. If not, I probably can interest some friends in them.

 

Reminds Me Of Michaura Uproar, posted on June 13, 2006 at 09:02:18
FlaCharlie


 
First of all, thanks to DavidLD for posting about this on the Vintage board. As a vintage guy who's mostly into tube gear, I've had a lot of vintage speakers follow me home. I guess I've become a cheap bastard as a result because I actually consider $50 to be relatively expensive! The MOST I've ever paid for a pair of vintage speakers was $50 for a pair of University 15" coaxs. Still, most new speakers in this price range suck so it's always fun the hear about bargains. I'll have to make a trip to Best Buy to check them out. David's proposed bargain speaker shootout sounds like a great idea too.

Reading all these posts reminds me of the uproar over the Michaura speakers a few years back. I still have some of those - M55s as fronts in my little HT system ($19/pair) and some M66s ($39/pair) which I pull out occasionally. I'm curious, does anyone who is trying these also have the Michauras to compare?

 

OK, look at what you've done now :-), posted on June 13, 2006 at 09:23:28
mhardy6647
Audiophile

Posts: 16018
Location: New England
Joined: October 12, 1999
Contributor
  Since: October 23, 2016
 see link below
all the best,
mrh

 

Mostly agree, but with some big exceptions, posted on June 13, 2006 at 09:32:44
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 One big exception off the top of my head: Gallo Reference 3/3.1

Try listening to a new pair with maybe half a dozen tracks you are VERY familiar with. Likely result: they're going on A-gon/Ebay!

Now take those speakers, wire out of phase & put the woofers next to each other, wrap in as many heavy blankets as you own & play some huey helicopter touch & goes at close to live levels on repeat for about a week.

Try those same tracks again - now you might see what all the hype is about.

Since you haven't been listening to the Gallos during the break in week, it ISN'T your ears that have "gotten used to" the sound of the speakers.

 

Re: 45$ Best Buy speakers don't cut it for me, posted on June 13, 2006 at 12:05:46
audiophile36
 After reading these posts I ran out to Best Buy and snatched up a pair for $46.00 + tax. I know these are only $50,but they are very resonant,though they do sound and look much more expensive.They have great imaging,great bass and nice crisp highs.They have a laid back British sound that is very appealing.The only problem is that they don't compare to my Boston Acoustic VR-M60 Reference standmounts in any way.The Insignia's are borderline tube friendly but their claimed 90db sensitivity is a little far streched as my Bostons are 90db also but seem much louder at the same volume setting on my Jolida JD202a integrated(40wpc).I know what you guys are saying..... at $1000.00 a pair the BA Reference VR-M60's cost 20 times the price of the Insignias,but I just cant justify keeping them even for the nice drivers and binding posts...I just boxed them back up and am getting ready to take them back for a refund.If my VR-M60's didn't sound so good I could easily live with these speakers.


"If it sounds good it is good!"

-Ernest Lee Farley III-

 

Re: Mostly agree, but with some big exceptions, posted on June 13, 2006 at 13:23:47
TommyK
Audiophile

Posts: 778
Location: New York City
Joined: August 29, 2000
 I wonder how long the engineers at Gallo laughed when they heard people were doing this to their designs to get better sound?

I wonder how a salesman would drop that one on a propsective mark?

The mind is marevelous thing.
Peace,
TommyK

 

I just purchase these Buy Buy speaker!, posted on June 13, 2006 at 14:25:24
StylinLP
Audiophile

Posts: 2334
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Joined: January 3, 2002
 Purchased them on my lunch hour. I got the last pair. Had to bring them into the office so they wont melt in the 115 degree heat in the van. Showed them off to my office mates.

For $45 they are very nice. I"m impressed with the fit n fnish and the binding posts. I have many crap cheap speakers laying around in the garage including KLH and Mirage 190i's. These speakers seem to be better build and nicer looking. If I saw these speakers going for under $200 I would have thought nothing of it. Thats about right. But for $45! dang...

Of course I'm not going to use them for any serious home theater or music but they are PERFECT for my gaming computer. Playing Everquest :)

_______________________________________

*Analog fans may be blind-but digital fans are deaf*
http://www.flickr.com/photos/82495693@N00/

 

WooWhee! Just got my First Pair of Insignia Speakers!, posted on June 13, 2006 at 14:47:06
Doug Schroeder
 I almost posted a thread about these things saying they had to be POS just because of the price. But, then, I thought..."How many posts by fools who never heard equipment are posted daily on these threads?" And with that, I had to be man enough to go out and purchase a pair to evaluate BEFORE I trashed them online!

But, I picked up the box at the store..Huh. Surprisingly heavy for a crap speaker.

Opened them up...HUH! Surprisingly good looking! HHUUHH! Surprisingly good looking binding posts and driver...

Ok, But what does it sound like? I don't know. Haven't tried it yet. But I'm beginning to think there MAY be some truth to what's been said about their sound.

I tell you this. The rest of Insignia's electronics look like absolute crap. But these speakers? Well, somewhere along the line they may have screwed up and produced a nice econo-quality product!

If the sound is as good as the aesthetic presentation, these are real gems for the $.

Matters not. These will end up in the garrage anyway.

 

Doubt the engineers laughed too hard - they call for it in the owners manual (nt), posted on June 13, 2006 at 16:00:21
David S.
Audiophile

Posts: 3552
Location: Mountains of WNC
Joined: August 31, 2000
 .

 

I don't know...., posted on June 13, 2006 at 16:03:57
John Ashman
Dealer

Posts: 1984
Location: New Mexico
Joined: September 4, 2003
 I heard some of these at CES, well set up and I thought they were rather rough sounding. Kinda like they weren't broken in, but I'm sure they wouldn't take that kinda risk if they knew it made a difference.

 

You've measured for comb-effects with coaxial arrays?, posted on June 13, 2006 at 16:23:10
Rob Thomas
Audiophile

Posts: 2988
Location: The West
Joined: April 6, 2000
 Not so sure about that homes...

While comb-effects certainly come into play, my understanding is that they are less of a factor when arrays are listened to properly in the nearfield say 2M. (And in the farfield, as in PA systems.)

-RT


"Let me help..."

 

Re: Burn in time, posted on June 13, 2006 at 16:39:06
Rob Thomas
Audiophile

Posts: 2988
Location: The West
Joined: April 6, 2000
 Once again it sounds like we're measuring the wrong parameters.

I read an interesting blurb recently on capacitor burn-in and alleged dielectric healing that occurs, described as self-clearing.

See link below...



"Let me help..."

 

Re: WooWhee! Just got my First Pair of Insignia Speakers!, posted on June 13, 2006 at 16:51:48
PeteG
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Location: Colorado
Joined: July 17, 2003
 I've had mine for less than a week and I'm very happy with them, a good value.

But they will be garage queens come tomorrow.

 

On second hearing, these things really are surprisingly good., posted on June 13, 2006 at 18:13:05
hesson11
Audiophile

Posts: 2281
Location: Florida
Joined: December 8, 2005
 A couple of days ago, I posted my reaction when they were straight out of the box and placed uncritically. I described them as a bit hooty and tinny and lacking in center image. Well, I've done some burning in and some repositioning, and I am quite impressed.

In terms of frequency balance, there seems to be a bit of congestion in the lower midrange and a narrow band of slight brightness in the upper midrange, but other than that, not bad. Tone-color reproduction is pretty good, and imaging is very good. Can't complain about the dynamics either.

On the downside, they do have a boxy or cupped-hands character that calls attention to itself. And they sound a bit "small" in terms of soundstage. Detail and transparency are lacking, too, but still, for under half a c-note, these are quite impressive.

They won't displace my regulars, of course. And I still like my cheapo reference DCM CX-07s quite a bit better (I was really amazed by these speakers, especially since they were produced during DCM's "dark years" for something like $250).

All in all, if you've got less than $150 to $200 to spend, I'd be surprised if you can do much better than the Insignias.
-Bob

 

You are so right., posted on June 13, 2006 at 18:29:13
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 The break-in for Ref 3s is excruciating ( I'll bet half the ones on Audiogon are not really broken in). I once pretty well astonished a guy with how great they sound in my system ... and he manages a store that sells the things!

 

Cabinet build, posted on June 14, 2006 at 07:55:55
Pjay
Audiophile

Posts: 2415
Location: Northern VA
Joined: June 29, 2000
 OK, on one of other sites, we have a pic of the cabinet. It is grooved wood to allow the bend. That is why it is so thin sounding. So the trick will be how to fill the grooves without over wetting the MDF.

I have not gotten these, still deciding if the cabinet is worth it.

It still amazes me how much press we are giving to what is basically a cheap speaker that sounds cheap (or so you say) and does not measure well. So next time we criticize JA for a rave review against a measurement that is 2db sloped, he can come back with how much WE love this lousy speaker. :)

P

My speaker building site

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Speaker break in takes a few minutes? ... Maybe cheap speakers do., posted on June 14, 2006 at 09:15:57
Richard BassNut Greene
 We golden ears know the longer the required break-in timing, the better the speaker. In fact I'm almost done designing a speaker whose exotic materials will take three decades to break-in!

Some middle-aged owners will NEVER get to hear how great they sound when broken in, and they may sound mediocre for the first two decades, but hopefully break in will be complete before the owners hearing ability fades away with old age.

Or else the owner's children may be the first people to appreciate the incredible sound qualities of broken-in unobtanium drivers.

The only engineering glitch so far is I can't figure out why the speakers stop working just after "break-in" is complete.


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Richard BassNut Greene
My Stereo is MUCH BETTER than Your Stereo

 

Did you realize that you are buying the beer?, posted on June 14, 2006 at 11:44:58
Neil_Davis
Audiophile

Posts: 6
Location: Virginia
Joined: September 28, 2004
 See thread under $45 BestBuy cabinet mod

 

Re: Did you realize that you are buying the beer?, posted on June 14, 2006 at 13:40:01
Neil_Davis
Audiophile

Posts: 6
Location: Virginia
Joined: September 28, 2004
 Ooops...thread is on the Mad board; link below. Right now this is just some idea-groping for DIY2006.

Another annoyance of the cabinet is that you can't remove the port tube without destroying it. It is a two-piece 2-1/2" tube that apparently gets glued together with one piece on the inside and the other piece getting inserted from the outside. I can't pull the inside piece through the port hole, because the diameter is just a bit too big. I've tried sanding it down, but so far no luck. The tube is going to have to come out to fill in the gaps in the wood in that part of the cabinet (see the picture on the Mad board).

 

Going to buy two pair and make a "stack.", posted on June 14, 2006 at 14:45:34
Enophile
Bored Member

Posts: 25269
Location: Northern Californistan
Joined: October 15, 2005
Contributor
  Since: August 5, 2012
 I was thinking about this on the Planar Forum's thread, time to take my own advice.

A second pair inverted on top of the first pair, for under 100 bucks.

Hope they got it in stock here.

 

Re: 45$ Best Buy speakers playing!, posted on June 14, 2006 at 15:21:09
Wendell Narrod
 Out of curiosity I bought a pair today. With the 5% Father's Day discount and $25 in Reward certificates I got them for $20 out the door. I put them in my main system ($50K at retail) and they sound pretty good at moderate levels. The appearance and apparent build quality is quite impressive. Certainly the biggest audio bargain I've found in a long time.

-Wendell

 

Fascinating!, posted on June 14, 2006 at 18:00:33
Enophile
Bored Member

Posts: 25269
Location: Northern Californistan
Joined: October 15, 2005
Contributor
  Since: August 5, 2012
 Hey, a sincere thank-you for this terrific info!

Thanks for the time and effort and great information.

Kudos, in triplicate!

 

Re: Now You Are Talking!, posted on June 14, 2006 at 20:32:18
wualta


 
I'm very glad to hear the Pioneers that C.City is selling were designed by someone with street cred. I've been saying they're the best damn cheap speakers you can buy and now I have an inkling why.

Walt Brand

 

They Get Even Better!, posted on June 14, 2006 at 22:24:27
ka7niq
Audiophile

Posts: 3835
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: September 4, 2001
 Had mine for 6 days now, and they are getting even better.
I moved them into the main room, and hit them with the big monster amp.
They seem to love the power, and are opening up even more.

 

Re: Reminds Me Of Michaura Uproar, posted on June 15, 2006 at 05:28:54
HD Audio
Audiophile

Posts: 570
Joined: December 8, 1999
 I do not have the Michaura speakers currently, but I did own a pair. From what I remember, the Insignia has a better bottom end and are more efficent than the Michaura. I find the Isignia to be similar to the Monitor Silver 3i speakers that I own.

 

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