Vinyl Asylum

• Thanks all - ericpeters 20:05:47 04/19/06 (0)
  In Reply to: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 12:22:59:

  I did not expect this but aparantly everyone knowing the AT-33 prefers this one over the other choices. They are all bargains anyway so I do not think I can go wrong on either of them.
  I will go for the AT33 and install it on my Goldmund Studietto which will be fitted with an MG1 arm. This will replace my LP12 which I sold last week. The Oracle/SME/Shelter will remain my main TT.
  
  

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• AT-33Eptg or 103R - SwaKu 06:19:47 04/19/06 (0)
  In Reply to: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 12:22:59:

  I had a 103R for about a year and switched to the 33PTG about 2 months ago. Even before run-in, the initial improvement was obvious. The 33PTG has better high freq extension, giving more details. The 103R sound darker, warmer, laid-back and slightly veiled in comparison. The 33PTG bass is good too, tight and fast. Overall presentation is musical like the 103R but with better details and imaging. For the small price difference between them, I'll pick the 33PTG anyday!

  Here's some reviews at the audiocubes website.

  http://www.audiocubes.com/product_reviews/category/Home,+Portable+Audio_Cartridges/product/Audio-Technica_AT33PTG_Prestige_MC_Stereo_Cartridge.html
  
  
  

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• AT-33Eptg or 103R - max_the_lab 17:46:51 04/17/06 (0)
  In Reply to: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 12:22:59:

  I'm using the AT-33PTG now. IMO it has a very even tonal balance with better detail retrieval, and better frequency extremes than the 103R.

  Having said that, the 103R has a very nice midrange, even though some detail is sacrificed.
  
  

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• AT OC9 and 103R comparison - F Robert Simms 05:58:01 04/17/06 (0)
  In Reply to: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 12:22:59:

  John Elison sent me a couple of CDR’s that have recordings of the Denon 103R and the Audio Technica OC9. On the track 12 of the Oxnard Sessions, the OC9 sounds smoother, more refined and clearer. The treble on the OC9 also sounds brighter and more like the CD. On this track, it is hard to compare the 103R. With the 103R, I just want to lean back and enjoy the music. I don’t even enjoy listening to the track with the OC9. Previous recordings of the Dynavector XX1, Shure V15xVMR and the CD are not worth listening to either. The 103R sounds more like I am listening to the music in a live performance.

  I am still in the middle of making my comparisons. On other tracks of music the OC9 compares to the 103R much better than the first track that I chose. Again the OC9 sounds brighter, clearer and more refined. The 0C9 sounds more "Hi Fi". The 103R sounds more musical while still sounding right.

  PS. John's tracks were all recorded on the same turntable with the same phono preamp.
  
  
  

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• Gonna run .... so I apologize for not reading the other posts first. - Elmo 19:33:37 04/16/06 (0)
  In Reply to: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 12:22:59:

  And hope not to step on any toes :-)

  In general terms, tightly sprung moving coils [Denon 103, Koetsu, etc. (known as nails in the vernacular), appreciate more robust arms. And many robust arms (FR64/66, various SAEC, etc.) not only had inherent heft. But also heavy locknut bases. Some Very heavy. Which common sense would dictate is not the best mate for a suspended belt drive table.

  The 33 is a tracking champ. And thusly a more modest arm will allow it to play music. Therefore creating a more ideal mate for either of your sprung tables.

  In my yute, I had an Oracle with a battleship class arm (and heavy VTA elevator base), holding a Koetsu Onyx. What did I know hey? Time and experience have been more kind to me.

  If you want a taste of something different over the 103, the 33 can and will offer a different personality, that is also true to the music.
  
  

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• Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - SirAnthony 14:10:14 04/16/06 (4)
  In Reply to: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 12:22:59:

  I haven't heard the AT-33. But you have already heard the other two carts. The 103r and OC9 ml are probably only slightly better than then the originals. Why not try something new?

  How does the OC9 sound compared to the shelter. I may have to pick one up. They may be the ticket for old records with alot of midrange noise.
  
  

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  • Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - Fred J 17:21:32 04/16/06 (0)
    In Reply to: Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by SirAnthony on April 16, 2006 at 14:10:14:

    Anthony- You might also consider the AT MLX 150 it's a very competent
    MM and it has this minuscule fine line stylus that rides deeper in the groove than most styli and allows some nasty abused vinyl to sound great tracking the virgin groove.

    You might also see if AT will let you in on the differences (if there are any ?) between the AT-33E, AT 150 MLX, I think those carts are both Signets.

    Regards FredJ
    
    

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  • Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - ericpeters 14:24:56 04/16/06 (2)
    In Reply to: Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by SirAnthony on April 16, 2006 at 14:10:14:

    I've never been able to compare the OC9 with the 103 (I damaged/burned the coil in my second OC9 with a defect phono preamp) At that time I had replaced the OC9 with the Shelter 501/II in my main turntable. I found the Shelter a lot better than the OC9ML-Berylium especially, dynamics, soundstage and bass of the Shelter are better. The DL103 on the other hand seems to be closer to the Shelter in it's bass performance. But I find it especially lacking in resolution. I was hoping this was exactly what the 103R would do better.

    The AT33 is rare and can be bought directly from Japan only (where the OC9 does not seem to be available in Japan). Everything I read from it appears to be quite positive but as said it is very rare.

    From a price point of view the AT33 would be the most expensive ($349) next the OC9 ($289) and than the 103R ($249).
    
    

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    • Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - The Decameron 15:45:19 04/21/06 (0)
      In Reply to: Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 14:24:56:

      There's a review of the AT33 on Audio Cubes website.I had one and the reviewer was accurate in his description- it beats the OC9 easily and does so at a very reasonable price.
      
      

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    • Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - Paul Tobin 14:13:10 04/19/06 (0)
      In Reply to: Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 14:24:56:

      Eric, if you are chasing maximum resolution, subtlety, tonal shading, etc.....then the 103R probably won't be your best bet.
      The Denon 103R majors in musical communication, timing and very impressive weight and dynamics. It also provides a rather wide and deep soundstage but without especially great focus of individual instruments or resolution of the space. It is a great cartridge, and unfailingly enjoyable on any genre of music.
      While this is not related to your question, I've just installed an Ortofon Jubilee - and it puts the 103R's limitations into a bit of perspective. While I only have 5-6hrs on this cartridge, it offers far superior resolution (especially in the highs), nuance, air, tonal shading and laser like focus. At this stage, I think the Denon might still have the better midrange dynamics.
      Funnily enough, though the Ortofon is the far superior cartridge in most objective respects, I can't say I enjoy listening to music any more than the Denon....though it's very early days with the Jubilee.

      Bottom line: If you place musical communication, coherence and dynamics at the top of your priorities - the Denon is a no-brainer and hard to beat. Look elsewhere if maximum resolution, focus and fine detail are what floats your boat.
      
      
      System Details
      
      
      

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• Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - MintVinyl 13:03:34 04/16/06 (0)
  In Reply to: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 12:22:59:

  Hi Eric,

  I have both the OC9 ML/II and 103R.
  Having gone back and forth several times I keep coming back to the OC9.
  In my system it is the best overall performer of the two.

  Dale
  
  
  

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• Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - HenryH 12:34:25 04/16/06 (3)
  In Reply to: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 12:22:59:

  Were the 2 carts mounted on the same arm/table to make the comparison or are you comparing 2 complete setups??

  
  Henry

  Cogito Ergo Spud
  
  

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  • Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - ericpeters 12:36:10 04/16/06 (2)
    In Reply to: Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by HenryH on April 16, 2006 at 12:34:25:

    I had both carts in both systems with the same pre-amp
    
    

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    • Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - HenryH 12:43:41 04/16/06 (1)
      In Reply to: Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by ericpeters on April 16, 2006 at 12:36:10:

      John Elison has both the OC9-MLII and the 103R. Might e-mail him. He has a Sota Millenium vacuum table with SME V arm.

      
      Henry

      Cogito Ergo Spud
      
      

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      • Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R - tszeking.cheng@homecall.co.uk 17:39:57 04/16/06 (0)
        In Reply to: Re: AT OC9 or AT-33Eptg or 103R posted by HenryH on April 16, 2006 at 12:43:41:

        Last year I compared four cartridges on four different turntables : a Denon 103R on a Denon DP80( Micro Seiko MA505S arm), a Dynavector 17Dmk2 on a Linn LP12 ( Lingo, Incognito rewired Ittok), an Audiotechica AT33 PTG on LP12( Origin Live DC motor, Ultra Controller, ,Incognitro rewired Rega RB300 with Michelle Techno Weight), and an OC9 on another LP12( Vahalla, Ittok with silver tone arm cable). The comparisons were not fair though the result was very interesting. At the beginning I was thinking to play all the cartridges on one turntable with the same arm but due to the set up difficulties and time involved, I decided to use four turntables and different arms for the convenience of quick and repeated omparisons. The synergy between components, and the loadings applied for the cartridge will play a major role to the final performance. So that’s why there are conflicts and different opinions among different listeners for exactly the same cartridge. All the four cartridges had their own strengths or weaknesses and it was hard for me to choose between them. My decision for the overall winner was the AT33PTG; followed by OC9 and 103R.The Dynavector did not fare too well and considered to be the worst contender in this contest (I’ll try it again with a different combination of arms and turntables in the future if I have the time). The Origin Live dc motor on the LP12 contributed and improved the performance of the AT33 PTG to a new high level - the treble was subtle, sweet and extended, the bass was agile with deep and tight extension, but the best was the charisma of its superbly natural mid band, so captivating and seducing, that even shadowed and beat the 103R for its own game.The combination I used for the best sound was a modified
        silver rewired Croft Super Micro pre-amp(Dact CT-1 mono attenuators) and a Blackgate modified Trio KHA50 mc head amp.

        
        
        

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