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Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?

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Posted on September 23, 2009 at 08:19:04
alan.holloway
 I am curious about the notion of running the SL-1200 "naked" or in a laminated wooden plinth. Anybody have direct experience on whether or not this is really a path to better sound?

 

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RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 23, 2009 at 09:21:52
cactuscowboy@bresnan.net
Audiophile

Posts: 7738
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Joined: July 23, 2007
 From the Panasonic website:

QUOTE

"Vibration Resistant Construction
A die-cast aluminum body, heavy rubber base, and a lack of unnecessary components or empty space allow the 1200MK2 to absorb unwanted vibrations that could otherwise interfere with the sound."

IMO, this turntable is exceptionally well designed and engineered. The excellent performance and near total immunity to vibrations and feedback support my opinion. I think the contention that the rubber base is somehow inferior or lacking is just another example of the unfounded myths perpetuated by the uninformed or those who have a hidden agenda, e.g. they're in the business of selling belt-drive "audiophile" turntables costing 3x as much.

I would not bother making a custom plinth for my SL-1200.

IIRC, there's at least one fellow on this forum who used a SL-1200 to make a 'custom' turntable. Perhaps he or others will relate their experience.

 

I agree - if you're looking at it from a purely aesthetic point, posted on September 23, 2009 at 09:46:47
VynylTap

there is an option. KAB offers a "drop-in" solid wood base that I always thought looked really nice - although I don't think it's worth the $225 asking price.

From a functional point of view - it's hard to argue against the design employed by Technics on the SL-1200.

 

GMAB. Please list the manufacturers of "belt-drive "audiophile" turntables costing 3x as much" who....., posted on September 23, 2009 at 11:06:31
Rick W
 claim the Tech. 1200's rubber base is "lacking" and should be replaced or compensated for.

 

Us against them- not the path to better sound, posted on September 23, 2009 at 12:00:27
beach cruiser
Audiophile

Posts: 7414
Location: so cal
Joined: September 24, 2003
 I agree, that claim is kind of far out there, supposing that their is a conspiracy against a particular turntable design, which the poster needs to defend against attack.

I personally enjoy a pride of ownership at times, when some item brings me joy. But just because I bought something doesn't mean everything else is lacking. It's just a buying decision, some are better than others. It's not like my Grandmother gave up a lung to build the thing.

Discussing the merits and the failings objectively of an audio piece could lead to better understanding, and hopefully bring better insight into future buying decisions.

For instance, most belt drives give up some speed accuracy in comparison to a direct drive, and some direct drives lack the wide sound-stage created by a nice belt design. Someone seeking a wide sonic playback would be ill served by a discussion that only speaks to the merits of direct drive design and paints all other designs as inferior.

Us against them is a normal approach in selling a product, one sided arguments are common and expected. Bringing this attitude to ownership says something else.

 

Wow!, posted on September 23, 2009 at 12:16:14
midimaniac
Audiophile

Posts: 97
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: September 20, 2009
 Darn nice lookin VynylTap! Makes me want one of those outfits!

 

RE: Us against them- not the path to better sound, posted on September 23, 2009 at 14:03:30
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 2942
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
 I agree completely.

"Discussing the merits and the failings objectively of an audio piece could lead to better understanding, and hopefully bring better insight into future buying decisions."

The ongoing SL1200 debate (or should I say battle ;-) )here is an interesting situation not unlike that of other hobbies or sports I'm familiar with which utilize gear affecting performance.

On the one hand you have the owners who often times can be overly enthusiastic. This is me.

Then you have the haters who often times act at least as irrationally as the owners.

Is it a problem? Well, yeah but a pretty darn common one in my experience. It seems people get very emotionally involved with anything that is important to them. It's something I personally have a constant struggle with. I don't think I've ever known of anybody, except for maybe science officer Spock, who can maintain completly rationality in all situations, but can definitely appreciate it when it appears someone is at least trying.

I think it's just unavoidable human nature and doubt it's going away anytime soon.

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 23, 2009 at 16:23:58
Adriel
Audiophile

Posts: 1037
Location: San Diego
Joined: October 13, 2001
 I am willing to try this. It would require a woodworker to create something with pretty tight fitting tolerances, and sink M6 threads into the bottom 4 corners, and have it be level after all the work is done. I'm not sure if that is a reasonable thing to ask for a woodworker. But I sent off for a quote request and description, maybe they will do it who knows.

For now, release all screws underneath except the 4 very long screws in the 4 corner footers. This will keep the footers in place, but allow the rubber in the middle to sag under its own weight, reducing coupling to the plastic resin body up top.

This is the fact concerning Technics rubber:

Since the rubber mat's sonic signature is that of slight smearing, and can be substituted with good results, it is not unreasonable to expect similar gains with regard to the rubber base that is nearly 10 pounds.

Lastly we have to consider the characteristics of wood, its warpage and shifting size over the seasons, and cracking over time. A level table won't stay that way for long. Unless you're asking for MDF, which you're not right?


 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 23, 2009 at 16:28:13
Adriel
Audiophile

Posts: 1037
Location: San Diego
Joined: October 13, 2001
 As with all other mass marketed electronics primarily bought by the midfi consumer, manufacturers' self-gratifying literature should be separated into that which is useful, and that which isn't useful to a hifi consumer.

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 23, 2009 at 17:02:01
alan.holloway
 Adriel, I have a friend who is an owner of multiple SL-1200s who also happens to be a woodworker. We're both interested in possibly dropping one of the 'tables into a plywood glued-up plinth, and running a modified 'table next to an unmodified 'table to see what sort of differences the changes make. He would probably just run a router, piece by piece, through multiple sheets of plywood around an outline of the 'table's outline.

I posted the initial query to get feedback from anyone who's tried the SL-1200 "naked," or in an alternative plinth. If I get feedback from someone with direct experience who claims it's a total waste of time, then so be it. "Frogspit," at another forum, I think, did a creditable job making a plinth, but I never found out how he liked or disliked it.

By the way, we found that my '1200 sounds best right now without feet, with the base sitting directly on a low bookcase. We tried original feet and squash balls, but "no feet" sounded best. Contrary ideas can sometimes prove best.

--Alan

 

Is it anything like releasing a bra ?, posted on September 23, 2009 at 18:42:50
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 49059
Location: Maidenhead Grid Square DM79
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 As a young man (many years ago) it took me a few tries to figure it out but it was well worth the effort.

 

I think it's a great improvement, posted on September 23, 2009 at 19:52:23
danj
Audiophile

Posts: 3286
Location: Near Salem, Oregon
Joined: December 11, 2001
 My only problem with the 1200 is its industrial look. That wooden base makes it a lot more pleasant.

 

My vote is for " lets test and see......", posted on September 24, 2009 at 01:40:50
tubesforever
Manufacturer

Posts: 10505
Location: Great Basin
Joined: May 7, 2005
 I have a project SL1200 table in the works. I will put it together with a stock replacement bearing and rubber base.

Then I will use the stock replacement bearing and a high mass plinth.

I will record each with high resolution digital and anyone with a cdp can listen to the results for themselves.

I will get underway with the testing in about 5-6 weeks. I have no favorites here. The testing will be interesting.

Cheers!

"Help support our school's Music programs"


 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 24, 2009 at 11:46:45
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008



Someone did just that in the ART OF SOUND forum in UK but I can't find the link so here a picture from that thread.

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 24, 2009 at 11:48:00
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008



More images...

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 24, 2009 at 11:48:38
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008



another one...

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 24, 2009 at 11:49:52
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008



I don't know how to load multiple images in one post, so I have to do them in separate posts. Sorry. And this the forth and last image.

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 24, 2009 at 11:54:40
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008
I think there are better candidates for this time of project. I believe the SL-1600MK2, SL-1700MK2, SL-1800MK2 series are better suited for this project as they have the same platter, motor, and electronics as the SL-1200MK2 and they are much cheaper. Their plinth or chassis is suspended, easier to gut than the SL1200. If you want to go a range higher, I highly recommend the SL-1300MK2, SL-1400MK2, SL-1500MK2 series as they have heavier platters and balanced with drilled holes like the SP-10! The tonearm is, however, not as good as the SL-1200mk2 but re-plinthing them will allow for easier tonearm choices. Should be fun projects.

Enjoy!


 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 24, 2009 at 11:59:34
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008
 Another cool thing about the SL1300/1400/1500 MK2 series is that the motor is detachable so it is not soldered directly the circuit board so one can motor the motor directly to a plinth, similar to Kaneta style, and run an extension cord to the electronics, in fact you don't even have to butcher the original plinth or chassis and can it to house the electronics and use it as the control center. You can place stock chassis in the shelf right under the actual turntable. I have a couple SL1400mk2 motors and plan to do such experiment in the future.



 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 24, 2009 at 12:15:46
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008




Such project is not, of course, limited to only Technics turntables. In fact, one can get really good result using other brands direct-drive turntables. In my case, I use the motor and electronics from a Pioneer PL-L1000 table. The wood box next the table is the power supply and motor drive electronics. I don't have time to make a longer extension cable yet. I think Pioneer turntables are much easier to work with in this situation for me. The motor has a flat bottom so I don't even have to dill a big hole on the butcher block. I did it in one day! Sound good too.



 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 24, 2009 at 12:16:56
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008



Another image showing all the electronics inside the wood box.

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 25, 2009 at 11:55:20
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
 The photos 'caligari' shows below are of my SL-1200 project.

I intended for it to be a fun exercise in trying to provide a sort-of low budget, slightly tongue-in-cheek variant of the SP-10 MKII, and it fulfilled that goal. Does it sound 'better' than a stock SL-1200XX? Yes-airier and more articulated highs, sharper attack on the bass, cymbals have a bit more 'edge', female vocals (in particular) seem more realistic. Along with the speed stability inherent in the design, there's no question it's a much improved tt. Plus, I think it looks cool, though aesthetics are personal (I recall someone calling me out for not recessing the platter as per the stock deck, for instance). So much for the positives-what of the less-wonderful aspects for anyone attempting this, or something similar?

a-I made so many changes at once to a stock deck that it's impossible to say which-if any-change had the greatest impact to the difference in sonics, or if it was cumulative of many small changes. To wit: I separated the stock power supply from underneath the platter, provided on-off switching for the strobe, eliminated the pitch slider, made minor changes to the bearing, the SME tonearm alone costs 4 times what the SL-1200 costs, and, of course, the plinth.

b-this involved a lot of 'work'! Not that I wasn't expecting it, or couldn't have made changes to speed up the process-I do this stuff for the pleasure of doing it, and I'm not worried (too much) about the time involved. But it's fair to say that if you don't have some rudimentary skills, and the requisite tools, for woodworking, soldering, tracing a circuit, etc., and the means to vent frustration other than by smashing a hammer into the half-completed project, this is a tough one to recommend. Frankly, just about everybody would probably be better off just buying a decent SP-10 MKII, with all it's built-in advantages to the SL-1200s, building a plinth, and mounting the arm of your choice.

Anyway, that's my take-good luck and have fun.



"dammit"

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 25, 2009 at 13:03:56
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008
 Thanks for sharing and I think you did a great job. The important fact is that you were thinking outside of the box (literally!) and I really like the experimental spirit of it. Again, it's a hobby. You're supposed to have fun!

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 25, 2009 at 13:13:10
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
 Thanks, it was fun, and it's certainly unique-I haven't seen anything similar.

And btw, you can post as many photos as you want on one post by hitting 'preview', and then loading another pic, hit 'preview', load another pic, on and on ad infinitum. A lot less work. (-:



"dammit"

 

RE: Who here has "released" their SL-1200 from its rubber base?, posted on September 28, 2009 at 15:24:29
caligari
Audiophile

Posts: 415
Joined: March 20, 2008
 In all honesty, you are better off with an SP25 because it uses the same motor and circuit board as the SL1200 so if you bolt that to a wood or slate plinth, it is essentially doing exactly what you have in mind without the hassle of gutting a stock SL1200. You will also have more tonearm choices.

 

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