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better than Lps?

24.16.3.25
Posted on October 8, 2008 at 15:22:25
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000









OK Jack, you were right.

i drove down to Ukiah, California and picked up my refurbished Studer A-820. Also got an 8 hour lesson about it and RTR in general.

i just played 3 of 'The Tape Project' tapes on it and i must admit it's likely better than any Lp i have heard in most ways. just more of everything and even less a sense of any reproduction chain.

these are first impressions so i guess i'm leaving the door open for qualifications......

The A-820 might be the most ambitious piece of audio gear ever made. it is a work of audio art as well as working like a swiss watch.

anyway; at this level of RTR performance where you have good 15ips tapes and a top level RTR machine in top working condition i think that master tapes are the best possible source one can have.

mikel

 

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Absolutely agreed., posted on October 8, 2008 at 15:45:28
jdaniel@jps.net
 .

 

Correct., posted on October 8, 2008 at 15:57:57
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004

Hi Mike,
Even on my more modest open reel and LP setups, there is no comparison between the Tape Project tapes and their "other format" counterparts. IMHO you don't need a top level 15 IPS RTR machine to discover this---just a carefully aligned and calibrated one (7.5 IPS or greater that is). Better yet to add some external tube electronics to add to the open reel's cause.


Just play TP-003 "Arnolds Overtures" against your LP and cd and there is just an openness, transparency, silkiness, and sheer dynamics that are missing on the other two formats. The Hall ambience on TP-003 is the thing to really listen for---the tape has it in spades!

Also, there are some REALLY good commercial tapes out there, you just have to search. For example, Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" (even 4-track 7.5 IPS) puts the SACD and original vinyl to shame.

Glad you have come to the promised land! Beautiful/incredible/wonderful decks you have there too!

Joel
Regards,
Joel

 

So where can you buy....., posted on October 8, 2008 at 16:31:09
sk
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 677
Joined: April 22, 2000
 one of these machines, and at what cost?
Curious minds would like to know and have a listen....

 

RE: So where can you buy....., posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:02:19
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 Studer A-820's are out there in pro audio land sitting unused (and likely unserviced). i found mine a year ago on Craig's list at a CD mastering studio in Texas. you see them on ebay sometimes. it is a crap-shoot because these are 15-20 year old machines. some have been used and serviced and others have just sat around.

from what i know about them; buying one is the easy part.....finding someone to repair and tune them is the difficult part. if you do a google search there is almost no information at all which will help you.

i've seen them sell for as little as $4k to as high as $10k. and you will likely spend a similar amount to get it optimized. but then you will have the ultimate audio source. these sold for $25k+ when new 20 years ago and if you tried to manufacture something like this today it might cost $200k retail.

almost every Studer expert out there has either died or changed careers. i spent 2 months beating the bushes until i was referred to Fred Thal. Fred moderates 'The Studer List'; an on-line newsletter about Studer Master Recorders. i had read the Studer List for awhile before i was referred to Fred. Fred has no website and doesn't even come up with a link on Google.

there are some other companies which do work with Studer A-820's.....but they only work on the heads or maybe add output electronics. what you need is a guy like Fred; who knows the insides and all the tricks. in the year i've been paying close attention no one else has come up as an A-820 expert that i know of.

if you are interested in buying an A-820; contact Fred

afthal@gmail.com

he could likely refer you to one for sale....and then advise you the approx cost of going thru it.

the problem with purchasing one of these is that unless you have someone who really is an expert look it over closely and test it you won't know if it is operating optimally. the A-820 has lots of micro-processors and is software driven. so it will perform better than anything; but it's more complicated.

i hope this helps.

mikel

 

Common sense. An LP is a reproduction of a master tape,, posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:11:55
Opus 104
 Reproductions can only detract from the original, not enhance.




"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: "It might have been!" - John Greenleaf Whittier

 

Agreed, posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:13:42
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 40810
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 There was a time when one could buy albums on 7.5" reels. HP has a pretty good sized collection.

BTW, the Clearaudio Statement with the Goldfinger cartridge is a gorgeous thing to behold and to hear. :)

rw

 

10 to buy, 10 to bring up to spec?, posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:18:21
Muzikmike
Reviewer

Posts: 12561
Location: SoCentral PA
Joined: December 19, 2007
 20 grand?

I don't belong to that crowd, the members of which wouldn't want me if my account did match theirs.

And, I'd never want to belong to any group that would allow someone like me to be a member.


The world worked fine without computers. I don't think I did, but nothing I've seen determines that one way or the other.

 

RE: 10 to buy, 10 to bring up to spec?, posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:24:32
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 sorry if i was not clear.....

$4k--$10 to purchase....

$4k--$10k to go thru.....and this is just a guess.

so you might be set for $8k.....or maybe twice as much. somewhere in the middle is likely.

unfortunately; the damn thing is very complicated and parts are pretty scarce and very expensive. on the positive side it's swiss and built like a tank. once correct and maintained it will outlive all of us.

there are lots of nice $500 RTR machines out there that sound pretty good.......

mikel

 

Agree on the "Time Out". (nt), posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:25:40
SomeJoe


 

 

But think of all the LPs I could buy for that amount!, posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:34:55
Muzikmike
Reviewer

Posts: 12561
Location: SoCentral PA
Joined: December 19, 2007
 More, I want more! More, I tell you!


The world worked fine without computers. I don't think I did, but nothing I've seen determines that one way or the other.

 

here's one, posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:47:39
troporobo
Audiophile

Posts: 1648
Location: Manila
Joined: June 6, 2003
 Brian Cherry at DIY HiFi Supply has one for sale. Though his is a Studer B67 and since it is in Hong King might be logistically difficult

 

JUST SO WE DON'T SCARE FOLKS HERE....., posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:48:29
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 MikeL has a very high end R2R setup posted here and I don't want anyone to be put off by that. You do NOT need to get to that level of expenditure to still beat your vinyl. I have heard this at my home and also at a buddies who has a quarter million dollar system plus----all it takes is a decent open reel deck to achieve what he and I are talking about in the posts below.

A Pro Otari MX-5050BII which are COMMON and can be had on Ebay for between $150-$700 can give you sound that will beat any vinyl when the source material is right. No question. You just have to get it properly aligned and calibrated and make sure that everything is working correctly before you buy it (the tough part). The Otari does NAB and IEC and runs at speeds of 3 3/4 IPS, 7.5 IPS and 15 IPS, so it's about as universal a machine as you will find----and its set to go to play the Tape Project tapes right out of the box. Also, Otari is STILL IN BUSINESS and is the last manufacturer of open reel decks in the world----so parts are still available and they are a great company to deal with as an aside. No affiliation with them at all---just a guy who has 4 of their decks.

Just wanted to state this so nobody is "put off" by the dollar amounts that MikeL is throwing around (not that there is anything wrong with that but I know a few who might be scared off). Open reel is a niche format and we need as many to jump aboard as possible. It's fun stuff and very addictive!! It's not for everyone but when it's right, you cannot beat the reels.


Regards,
Joel

 

Ya, but......., posted on October 8, 2008 at 17:55:28
Neff


 
where does one source the tapes?

 

Exactly why I don't invest, even though it can be the ultimate source. nt, posted on October 8, 2008 at 18:22:50
Dan_ed

 

When I can find great tapes like I find great lps I will consider it. NT, posted on October 8, 2008 at 18:44:50
Lifer
Audiophile

Posts: 210
Joined: February 17, 2002
 NT

 

RE: better than Lps?, posted on October 8, 2008 at 18:47:51
cactuscowboy@bresnan.net
Audiophile

Posts: 7738
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Joined: July 23, 2007
 When I read the subject header I knew the posting would be about R2R.

You don't need to spend big bucks either. I've got a $5 thrift shop Sony deck and a few dozen dirt-cheap Classical 7 1/2 IPS prerecorded tapes that sound incredible.

 

RE: better than Lps?, posted on October 8, 2008 at 18:52:36
Wamajama


 
I agree completely! I have both the Studer A-80RC and an Otari 5050 also an inexpensive Techics and all of them sound better than my vinyl rig. VPI HRX with Titan Cart.. Not even close to my old ears! And it all costs less than you can imagine, not to mention FUN..... It's new even though it's old.

 

Great post!, posted on October 8, 2008 at 18:57:52
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 Thanks for weighing in! Like I said, you DON'T have to spend 8k to hear the benefits of the reels!
Regards,
Joel

 

We both have..., posted on October 8, 2008 at 19:05:33
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 KAB Technics turntable and open reels too??!!?? We are on the same page! GREAT choices!

7.5 IPS Classical is where it is at for the commercial tapes, though I have found some "reel" gems in jazz as well. I have found the London label to be one of the best for the classical reels. Unbelievable sonics.
Regards,
Joel

 

no problem....., posted on October 8, 2008 at 19:05:49
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 .....you can buy fully licensed SOTA 15ips reel to reel master dubs right now from The Tape Project (link below for details). i am a charter subscriber and have 7 of these jewels so far.....with 3 more to come for the first year.

there is also 'The Tape Project forum' www.thetapeprojectforum.com for lots of additional info and a place to ask questions about all things RTR.

my opinion is that 15ips 1/4" RTR master dubs are just starting to be recognized as the ultimate format and now anyone who wants it can have it. i predict that as time goes by the selections of master dubs will expand. right now there is also a European group offering a program similar to 'The Tape Project'. if you hear one of these in your room you will have to have it. and excellent RTR decks are quite inexpensive.

in the past i was aware of what RTR could do but how could anyone get their hands on them? well....here is the answer.

mikel

 

You can find tapes everywhere...., posted on October 8, 2008 at 19:21:09
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 If you want the best available today, then you subscribe to "The Tape Project". They have been talked about in both Stereophile and TAS. Go here:

http://tapeproject.com/

Option 2 is: hit the local record stores or Ebay. Lots of tape available! Just make sure its at a speed of 7.5 IPS or greater as these were the higher fidelity releases. Best to avoid all the stuff from "estate sales" as a heads up. Tapes are DURABLE but use common sense and ask the right questions.

Option 3 is: Get out there and record master tapes for yourself! Find bands, churches, whatever you like musically and set up shop. Make your OWN master tapes. Of course, you need some know-how here! A friend of mine has done just that and is releasing his own open reel tapes:

http://www.awardaudio.com/

Option 4 is: See if you can schmooze Jack Seaton to make you some dupes of his master tapes.

Regards,
The self-proclaimed ambassador to the open-reel format ;)

Regards,
Joel

 

The burr under the saddle, however, is, posted on October 8, 2008 at 19:26:43
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
 the cost of the tapes. That is not to say that DocB isn't charging fairly, because, imagining the labor, start-up costs, monetary risks, etc. I'd be surprised if he's making a profit at all, but the fact remains that 200.00 plus for one album is mighty big change-and his sales model requires that to bring it down to that level, it's necessary to buy, say, a Robert Cray album-sonically superior, I'm sure, but still, there's some musical chaff amongst the grains of RTR wheat.

Even so, a financially lesser person, such as myself, can still get a kick out of RTR for a relatively modest investment, but for the most part I'd wager that vinyl is the most cost-effective method of getting the maximum from your stereo. Particularly if, as most on this site have done, you've already invested the necessary monies and time.

Edit: added 'RTR' in front of 'wheat'-just sounded better





"Dammit..."

 

LET'S SCARE 'EM A LITTLE, JOEL :-), posted on October 8, 2008 at 19:33:32
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 'Cause as we both know, the software picture ain't pretty. Once you get the dozen or so Tape Project tapes, then what? The ONLY source for used reel-to-reel tapes is Ebay, and your chances of getting one that beats its equivalent LP is ... not good. In fact, a majority of the ones you buy there (and I'm the proud owner of at least 100 in the last year or so) are pretty dismal. But you keep plugging away because the great ones are really outstanding (e.g., Brubeck's Time Out and, if you can afford it, Miles' Kind of Blue). But it's the ultimate crapshoot, trying to find the gems.

And then, you have to keep those ancient decks lubricated, aligned and adjusted. At least every 18 months, probably sooner. And keep the heads, guides and pinch rollers clean all the time. Oh, and don't forget to demag the heads.

Just trying to put things in perspective here :-)

 

The voice of reason..., posted on October 8, 2008 at 19:45:04
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
 Well said Dave. Joel's enthusiasm is contagious, but, at least for me, RTR is ancillary to my vinyl. I've got about 100 tapes-mostly classical, because that's, by far, the most predominant genre in pre-records, and I like to record some 2-track mix tapes on the Technics, but sound-wise, as a general rule, the vinyl's gonna win. I mainly enjoy the tapes for more casual listening, because there's less up-and-down-off-the-couch.

Plus, you've got another medium that's almost as fussy, and almost as buy-auxillary-fuss-tools-for, as LPs. I don't mind that, but fair warning should be given.



"Dammit..."

 

I agree... those are only for the wealthy, especially in these times..., posted on October 8, 2008 at 20:03:00
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 and at 8 tapes a year.. no selection.
Even trying to find "old" tapes is not easy, and is a crap shoot on quality..
I have a old Akai 636 and some old reels, but, I gave up collecting as there are none in my area to purchase, and on Epay either there is nothing I like or what I like is the far and few reels that everyone else likes and go for too much $$$
This is a hobby that unless you already have the equipment and software, it's really not cost effective..
Especially when compared to vinyl...which reels do sound better on many occasions, but to me are not both practicle nor affordable... at least not to me.

Rick

 

Good post.. and as far as software "value".., posted on October 8, 2008 at 20:09:28
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 I really can't see wasting time searching and spending "big" dollars on reels that odds are, were poorly taken care of...

For the same cost, I can buy TONS of the same used vinyl for much less..

Yes, I do use my old Akai 636, but I just can't afford to feed it with what I like to listen to... or, there just isn't much out there that I want to listen to..


Rick

 

The cost for the tapes are less then LP's...., posted on October 8, 2008 at 20:29:51
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 On some of the titles. What would you rather have, a VG original LP pressing of "Waltz for Debbi" for $400-$500 or the 1.5 gen master tape?

From the TP Q&A section:

Q: The price seems really high compared to LPs. Why $200 for a subscription price album?

A: Tape is very expensive, nearly $50 per reel these days. And there are two reels in each album. Now add in the license fees, production labor, facility costs, custom packaging, custom reels and you get an idea of our costs. And you probably get an inkling that we sure aren't doing this to get rich.

There is another interesting way to look at this as well. In two ebay auctions that we tracked in October of 2007, an original Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus LP sold for $262.57, and an original Bill Evans - Waltz For Debby LP sold for $464.99. By their descriptions these are LPs with average wear and tear. For $200 each you can get our noise free "1-1/2 generation" master tape dubs if you subscribe to the Tape Project for 2007 - seems like a no-brainer...



Regards,
Joel

 

RE: I agree... those are only for the wealthy, especially in these times..., posted on October 8, 2008 at 20:33:46
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
 If DocB had hooked up with MusicMatters, Acoustic Sounds, S. Hoffman et al to produce a line of Blue Note tapes from the masters that those guys are using, I might have thrown financial caution to the wind (though it would still be-extremely-difficult), but I eventually realized the foolishness of buying the sonics over the music-though that only applies to me, not for those who've bought into the Tape Project! Actually, I'm happy that there are those out there who can afford to partake in an attack on the absolute, SOTA attack on the best sonics ever, no matter the differences we may have in music appreciation!

I can't help wondering, though, considering the Asian market and their apparently limitless affinity for BN jazz, how that might have affected the Tape Project's potential revenues-not to mention my potential involvement.



"Dammit..."

 

check out the reeltoreel yahoo group, posted on October 8, 2008 at 20:46:12
michael22
Audiophile

Posts: 918
Joined: October 1, 2001
 with 2700+ members, many of whom are also vinyl addicts. even commercial mass-produced 4-track tapes can sound better than the average 'audiophile' pressing. that doesn't mean, however, that i'll be getting rid of my record collection ..

 

That's one perspective, Joel,, posted on October 8, 2008 at 20:47:12
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
 but one other is that I would never spend anywhere close to 464.99 for an album, much less the thousands that other 1st pressing, original jazz albums go for on the open market. Frankly, the 50.00 a pop I'm paying for the MM and AS Blue Note 45 library is about the top of the game for me-the sonics are wonderful mind boggling, and even more importantly, I love the music. Which I can't say for every offering from the Tape Project, particularly at the price of admission.

I will say, though, once again, that I appreciate the hell out of the fact that DocB, and supportive folk like you, are producing an absolute SOTA medium of musical reproduction. If the good doctor ever produces a sales model more conducive to my musical tastes, I could very well be there alongside you. Until then, I'll enjoy my vinyl, and my comparatively modest tape setup.




"Dammit..."

 

IT'S ALMOST HALLOWEEN WHY NOT????, posted on October 8, 2008 at 20:49:56
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 Hi Dave,
You know I love you, but as I stated in my post--- at its best, you cannot beat the reels. I KNOW you know that and wish you would state such when you do these "glass half empty" open reel posts. Why not state the "good times" too>? So I am bringing my "enthusiasm" to this forum on that premise---at their best, nothing else compares.

Yes, everything needs to be aligned, lubed, de-magged, serviced, cleaned, etc. Same thing goes for LP playback, no? It takes me no longer to spool a reel then get an LP ready to go. Just as I'm sure it takes some a long time people to restore their Rek-O-Kuts here on VA -----then, yes, it also takes some time to restore a Studer. But there are other options/routes to go if one does not want to do that restoration in either format.

The bottom line is when the stars align, there is NOTHING that can beat a reel, even those 7.5 IPS tapes carefully sourced from Ebay. Like I said in my post, open reel is NOT for everyone. It takes patience. The reels are for those that want the best possible sonics and are after the ultimate fidelity! ;)
Regards,
Joel

 

That deck on the floor - is that, posted on October 8, 2008 at 21:08:25
kavakidd
Audiophile

Posts: 20316
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: April 15, 2004
 the one I've been seing advertised in TAS? Pioneer??

"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain

 

Not according to.., posted on October 8, 2008 at 21:35:40
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 Not according to this TAS article by Robert Harley:


Final Thought

Despite all the theoretical technical limitations of the LP format,
there’s an ineffable magic in the sound of a good LP played back
on a high-quality front-end that even high-resolution digital audio
doesn’t capture. Some have even suggested that the LP in many
ways sounds better than the mastertape from which it was cut.Doug Sax, the great mastering engineer, speculated on this subject in our TAS Roundtable in Issue 149. He said “The disc
has a certain magic. Everything you measure about the disc is
worse, except that it has very good phase relationships. I’ll tell
you what it is. The disc forces the sound into mechanical motion.
The speaker is being fed something that’s been ‘predigested’ and
put into the laws of mechanical motion, which is what musical
instruments obey, to start with.”I don’t know whether Sax is right about this, but I do know that this 130-year-old technology still provides the ultimate listening
experience. This bumblebee can, indeed, fly.

TAS
Vinyl Lives!

Not saying I agree or disagree...
Just anothers perspective and opinion to think about...

Rick

 

RE: The cost for the tapes are less then LP's...., posted on October 8, 2008 at 21:39:32
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 Even if I would set up for the tape project, since they have started, only 8 tapes have been produced... and at that price...

Makes no sense to me to spend that kind of $$$ for only 8 reels.. and that's buying all 8 just because that is all there is.. what if I don't like any of them???? then what?


Rick

 

it's an EAR modified Technics RS-1700..., posted on October 8, 2008 at 21:40:40
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 Tim DeParavincini did his complete reconditioning with new heads and his own analog output circut. it has both the 2 track play/record---4 track play heads and the autoreverse heads.

i do like the way it sounds; it has a bit of warmth and is quite detailed. i've not had a chance yet to compare it directly to the A-820.

i also have a nice, fully stock Technics RS-1500 which is not in the picture.

mikel

 

DocB does recommend that you buy a CD of each tape to, posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:02:01
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
 help you decide if you like the musical quotient-unfortunately, should you decide you don't, that relegates you to buying the single tapes-which are then 300.00+, and AFAIK, none of which have been released thus far as single tapes.

My take? I'm what's considered a hard-core audiophile (certainly amongst my friends!), and there's no way I'm spending 300.00 on a single album, no matter the musical content, or the sonics, or the combination of the two.

Sorry-even I have my limits.



"Dammit..."

 

At that rate, posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:02:26
castironandtubes
 Why not go 30ips 1/2" or even 1"? I understand cost goes up, but so does performance and the money is already substantial.

Dave

 

Isn't a dub of a master tape also a reproduction? nt, posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:17:12
castironandtubes

 

RE: That's one perspective, Joel,, posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:20:12
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 Have you gotten your AP Blue Note trio:

"MOANIN', MIDNIGHT BLUE, and HOOTIN' AND TOOTIN' "

Yet? I seen that subscribers had gotten them as early as the first of September.. then nothing... I wrote them around the first week of September, finally got a response on Sept. 23rd... stating that ALL of them would be shipped within 7-10 days...
Well.. here we are, over 2 weeks from that time and nothing...

Rick

 

Thanks - I realized I mis-spoke, posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:24:47
kavakidd
Audiophile

Posts: 20316
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: April 15, 2004
 after I looked in the current TAS. What's the budget for one of those all tricked out? (if you wouldn't mind)

"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain

 

Yes...got them week before last., posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:28:03
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
 .



"Dammit..."

 

RE: Yes...got them week before last., posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:30:34
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 just curious, if you don't mind telling me your subscription number?

Rick

 

You and, posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:32:57
kavakidd
Audiophile

Posts: 20316
Location: Upstate NY
Joined: April 15, 2004
 Groucho (and ME, of course)

"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain

 

RE: At that rate, posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:33:03
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 they are seriously considering 1/2".....which would sound better, tapes would cost more but the labor to dub them would not be any more. there is the cost of changing head blocks and such.

30ips is a trade-off and would require 4 tapes per album.....so costs would be waay more.

if there are more subscribers then i think you will see 1/2" and even 30ips......but first there needs to be a solid business case which 1/4" 15ips is likely what needs to succeed first.

both my Studer and Ampex do 30ips and i have a 1/2" head stack for my Ampex ATR-102.....so i would enjoy having a couple of those tapes around.

mikel

 

#0441-yours? /nt/, posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:33:07
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5843
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
 .



"Dammit..."

 

RE: Thanks - I realized I mis-spoke, posted on October 8, 2008 at 22:36:56
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 i think the price is $7500 for the DeParavincini Technics. Mine was $7800 because of the second head block.

mikel

 

RE: #0441-yours? /nt/, posted on October 8, 2008 at 23:16:51
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 Mines #524...

Thanks...


Rick

 

RE: better than Lps?, posted on October 9, 2008 at 01:24:15
Munkie_NL
Audiophile

Posts: 4887
Location: Netherlands
Joined: August 24, 2003
 With that kind of gear you should get together a couple of fine musicians like a jazz combo and some good mics and record some live music. I did that with a very humble plastic early 1980s Philips RtR with amazing results. The records we cherish are all sourced from analog RtR recordings. Congrats!

"The torture never stops"

Greetings Freek.

 

I only do a "glass half-empty post" (note lower case calmness), posted on October 9, 2008 at 04:26:11
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 ... when I see a glass brimming over with a WEE bit too much enthusiasm. Which makes me a wet blanket, I suppose :-)

 

Speaking of "Midnight Blue", posted on October 9, 2008 at 04:35:29
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 I have the Blue Note reel-to-reel tape and have to agree with Joel on this one. No, I don't have the AP 45 to compare, but this is a truly awesome tape.

 

RE: better than Lps?, posted on October 9, 2008 at 05:21:12
r17
Audiophile

Posts: 1044
Location: Jerusalem,Israel
Joined: July 26, 2005
 I have had extensive experience with recording for radio stations,during the time that I was an active performer,a few LPs of my playing,(all the aforementioned using various Studers)and have had Revoxes for close to 30 years.I have been using RTR machines since 1970.
I was sure that LPs had no chance of sounding better than reel tapes-commercial recordings,that is.
A year ago,I could not resist the temptation,and acquired a really good second hand turntable.
When comparing commercial recordings played both on 7.5 inch speed tape and the same recording on LP,using the good turntable,and a modified B77,known to be in good operating condition,the LP sounds slightly better.This never happened before with:Thorens 124,145,160,Linn LP12,SOTA Cosmos SME V,and Goldmund Studio.Cartridges were,Koetsu Blacks,Supex 900,Ortofon MC10,Shure V15VMR,VDH MC One,and MC Two.
The present TT is playing a plain Jane 103.
I am surprised at the results of the comparison.

 

And that does not include the added cost of the playback equipment. )MT(, posted on October 9, 2008 at 05:40:27
J. S. Bach
Audiophile

Posts: 9676
Location: Chester, SC
Joined: November 28, 2001
Contributor
  Since: June 29, 2004


Dave
Later Gator,

Crank up your talking machine, grab a jar of your favorite "kick-back", sit down, relax, and let the good times roll

 

So when are the 30ips versions being released?, posted on October 9, 2008 at 06:05:06
fatdaddy
Audiophile

Posts: 406
Joined: April 9, 2002
 Just kidding, but to tout 15ips as the "ultimate" is a bit misleading. I started out my stereo system in the '60s with a Sony RTR deck featuring 3-3/4 and 7-1/2ips. Ended up with over 100 pre-recorded tapes, which bit the dust due to less than optimal storage in the mid-80's. Big problem with RTR is the sensitivity to temperature and humidity in storage conditions, plus the need to periodically play/rewind to minimize problems with print-through, developing flat spots on the tape (horizontal or vertical storage?), etc. For $200-300 each, The Tape Project has definitely defined it as a rich man's hobby. Like other posters, am enjoying the Music Matters releases too much to want to re-invest in yet another format.

 

I would be surprised too..., posted on October 9, 2008 at 06:44:25
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 And I'll just throw out the obvious but are you SURE the B77 is aligned/calibrated/biased correctly? Do you do the work yourself?

I have a wooded 103 and a wooded 103r and neither of them COME CLOSE to a GREAT 7.5 IPS commercial release. Though thats the tricky part---not ALL 7.5 IPS commercial releases are made equal. Some are worse then LP's, some better....

BTW, if you haven't seen this yet you can convert your B77 into a "Tape Project" machine. Food for thought:

Regards,
Joel

 

Check out another reeltoreel group!!, posted on October 9, 2008 at 06:48:14
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 Friendly folks here too and a lot of experienced tapeheads:


Regards,
Joel

 

There is MORE to open reel then just playing TP tapes, posted on October 9, 2008 at 07:09:13
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 The theme I'm hearing from the naysayers is:
"Well, I have to spend all this money just to play 8 tapes that I may not even like?"

NO!

There is much more fun to be had with open reel. For instance record LP's, record from digital (you don't even want to hear my opinion on this, too controversial), get a couple cheap mics and record yourself or your kids (my 2 and 4 years olds get a big kick out of this watching the meters jump and using the mics!)! Fun stuff, and (at high speed) you will get a PERFECT copy of whatever you are recording from if your deck is set up correctly. Even Dave Pogue will tell you he can hear NO difference between his LP's and the reels he records to from them!

So you can dabble a bit with everything:
A few tape project tapes here, a few commercial open reel gems off ebay there, make your own recording transfers from cd, lp, sacd, whatever, maybe hit the local church on record their choir and pipe organ, whatever!

Point is there is more to this then just playing 8 tapes or hunting down master tapes on ebay which will be expensive.

No, open reel does not offer enough quality recordings to make it your ONLY source. You need at least a cd player and a turntable as well!
But---- it does represent (at its best) the highest fidelity possible and on top of that you can play around with the ideas I've mentioned above. HAVE FUN!
Regards,
Joel

 

Bed wetter more like it?? ;), posted on October 9, 2008 at 07:14:49
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 Hi Dave,
I have to have brimming enthusiam to offset your wet blanket. That at least makes it back to a level playing field my friend!!

Maybe I should dial it down a bit and you up a bit and then we'll probably be A-OK here.
Regards,
Joel

 

Yep. Dub = copy. And a copy cannot better the original, only, posted on October 9, 2008 at 08:14:24
Opus 104
 detract from it. It's the degree that's important.


"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: "It might have been!" - John Greenleaf Whittier

 

RE: better than Lps?, posted on October 9, 2008 at 09:04:22
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17970
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 So is that ATR 102 yours as well?

That's great tape deck.


Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: better than Lps?, posted on October 9, 2008 at 09:09:32
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 yes; last fall i purchased the ATR-102 from MDI Precision Motorworks (Jeff Gillman). it is completely reconditioned and includes both 1/4" and 1/2" head stacks.

i works flawlessly.

mikel

 

RE: better than Lps?, posted on October 9, 2008 at 09:15:52
???
 If you bypass the stock solid state electronics (which are mediocre), you'll have even better sound.

 

RE: better than Lps?, posted on October 9, 2008 at 09:39:18
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 that is the long term plan. Fred is working on a simple way to take the signal directly off the head amp (which will still allow the EQ circuts to work) and then output it thru the M/S card (called a mono-stereo card.....which i have 2 of for him to modify).

i've also considered adding an Aria to the ATR-102 and running the low level signal from the Studer thru that.

i know there is a little more 'there' to get.

mikel

 

More to recording than open reel..., posted on October 9, 2008 at 11:13:45
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 Sorry, but if I want a machine to record my Lp's I would most certainly not use a Reel to Reel. The tape is much too expensive, it takes too much time, and I don't believe it is the "highest fidelity possible".
If I were to record, I would use a Tascam DV-RA1000HD for any Lp, home or other recording. I can record in up to 192/24 Hi-Res, I would record in DSD for my highest quality recordings, and make Redbook CD's for sharing, car use etc. I don't think a Reel to Reel can come close to the portability, media compatability with others, ease of use, cost of media, and performance of this machine.
But, that is totally a personal decision..
I do already, like I said, have an Akai 636 reel to reel machine. It is not the best, but I have enjoyed it for what it is.
Just my opinion...


Rick

 

And what would the "cost" of a copy of that tape be?, posted on October 9, 2008 at 11:19:36
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 Yes, and what would one "cost" me to purchase as compared to the 45RPM AP Lps? :^)

Rick

 

Beats me., posted on October 9, 2008 at 11:38:41
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 Mine cost me $3.99 according to the sticker on front. That was a while ago.

 

RE: Beats me., posted on October 9, 2008 at 11:53:30
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 I would guess to say a few hundred dollars.....right? And that's on the rare chance that you could even find it.


Rick

 

Agreed, external tape amps are nice!, posted on October 9, 2008 at 12:02:05
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 On my Otari's that have direct head out wiring I can compare the internal electronics to an external solution, like the tube Bottlehead Seduction I own, in real time. That Seduction was a big step up sonically. Matter of fact, Bottlehead put my review of their Seduction Tape Amp up on their site if anyone is interested! See link below....
Regards,
Joel

 

YES---great idea!, posted on October 9, 2008 at 12:14:20
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 I'm all over that idea and have been working on it for about six months rounding people up to record. I'm looking for as many musicians as I can find locally. So far I have lined up some friends and co-workers------- three piano players, a flutist, a classical saxophonist, a male vocalist, and have also gotten permission from a church to come in and record their choir and pipe organ during rehearsals.

Now the challenge is to figure out the when and where and also figure out what the heck would make sense musically for them to play together!!! Of course, I wouldn't likely need them all at once. Even getting a piano player together with the male vocalist would be something cool.

Regards,
Joel

 

I understand completely, posted on October 9, 2008 at 12:23:12
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 Cost is a consideration. Tape is not cheap and digital is. Different strokes for different folks and I respect your decision. BTW, the Akai 636 is a great machine for what it is, nothing to be ashamed of there. The glass heads will last forever. If I find a black 636/646 or 747 for the right price I'd add it to my collection.
Regards,
Joel

 

Not quite., posted on October 9, 2008 at 12:23:24
Dave Pogue
Audiophile

Posts: 11689
Location: DC Area
Joined: October 9, 2001
 The last one I saw on Ebay went for well under $100, IIRC. Given the plummeting economy, I may ultimately have trouble getting $3.99 for mine :-)

 

RE: Not quite., posted on October 9, 2008 at 12:36:41
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 That is surprising considering what origional Blue Notes go for...
If you ever want to sell, I would be interested.

Rick

 

RE: I understand completely, posted on October 9, 2008 at 13:02:37
rich121
Audiophile

Posts: 5401
Location: Yakima, Washington
Joined: March 8, 2003
 I would like to find a good tech to properly go through, upgrade whatever caps and resistors on my 646. I have posted on the Yahoo site for years, but no one has been able to give me a reference to a good tech locally, at least someone in the Portland/Tacoma/Seattle area.
To me, I don't see the logic in paying for it to be gone through, calibrated and then shipping it, to have whatever "changes" due to rough handling or what "unknowns" may occur. I also wondered, even though mechanically this is not a stout deck, if it might be worthwhile to get an outboard pre..


Rick

 

RE: I understand completely, posted on October 9, 2008 at 13:46:59
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 Yes, finding the "good" tech part is not the easiest. Based on my experience, you can be ripped off if you don't know what your doing. Your almost better finding someone on one of the forums who lives close to you who knows what their doing---often they know more then the techs themselves! I agree, shipping that thing off alone is a risk too great to try. UPS likes to smash open reel decks at a significant rate!!

I tell everyone to do just as you allude to---forget upgrading the SS electronics inside the decks and go external. You'll chase your tail and it still won't be tubes (if your into those like I am). A tape head Seduction is only ~ $280 if you can assemble it yourself and it will be superior to any cap/op-amp/resistor upgrade you can do internally IMHO.
Regards,
Joel

 

RE: JUST SO WE DON'T SCARE FOLKS HERE....., posted on October 9, 2008 at 14:34:19
kevinkr
Reviewer

Posts: 147
Location: Boston
Joined: December 12, 2007
 Yeah, I have an Otari MX-55T-M (half track 1/4" tape, 7.5ips, 15ips, 30ips) and other than its considerable bulk I am quite impressed with it. Sounds great, yet to have the opportunity to hear a tape project tape on it, but as I have several friends who subscribe I am hoping one will stop by soon..

 

There *is a Tape Forum, by the way..., posted on October 9, 2008 at 19:44:28
cdb
 but then again, this place is regulated like the investment banking industry.

 

RE: So when are the 30ips versions being released?, posted on October 9, 2008 at 22:31:03
mothra
Audiophile

Posts: 1841
Joined: August 28, 2001
 what is the ultimate ?

 

for me it's..., posted on October 9, 2008 at 22:36:07
mothra
Audiophile

Posts: 1841
Joined: August 28, 2001
 maybe other stuff. I haven't hard one so I don't know! However, it's a story for another forum, but one inch two track is a format that was sold to people many of whom don't really understand tape machines. I wouldn't use one inch two track myself as any sort of reference. It sounds like a good idea, but I have found that often it is not.

 

if you want to really scare people..., posted on October 9, 2008 at 22:42:25
mothra
Audiophile

Posts: 1841
Joined: August 28, 2001
 try finding and understanding distortion measuring equipment for a proper aligment. Otari's are great work horses, but if i had to use one for recording i would try to get the THD way down from where it usually is.

 

RE: Not according to.., posted on October 9, 2008 at 22:46:20
mothra
Audiophile

Posts: 1841
Joined: August 28, 2001
 what's funny to me about that rich, is that he's almost giving the digital-lp line. With lp's you get higher second order distortion and a little bit of phase anomaly between channels. All this can sound like a wider soundstage and a bit of air. Now, what if that sounds good? Technically it's a flaw but musically it is not, which is kind of the argument the digital people make against lp's which is "like it if you like it but don't say it is more accurate". Noew digital has compromises too, but you get the picture.

 

Yeah but nobody goes there...., posted on October 10, 2008 at 06:36:56
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 So how would all the VA guys and gals here get cool info like this otherwise? ;)
Regards,
Joel

 

Way out of my range as well Mike, I'm in a little over $200 in my Reel to Reel but, posted on October 10, 2008 at 06:51:44
Teresa
 it won't play the Tape Projects tapes as it is 4 Track 7 1/2 IPS, even if it could I wouldn't be able to afford the $329 single price or the discounted $200 price with subscription. Heck I don't even buy 45 RPM LPs because $50 is too much.

I've not bought many of the audiophile LPs I like so much this year as $30 or so is really pricey, most of my recent LPs have been from the thrift stores for 50 cents.

I get a few good 4 Track 7 1/2 IPS Reel to Reel tapes now and then on eBay if the bids do go to high.

Just my experiences and opinions, yours may be different,
Teresa

 

I read Tape Trail every single day (;-) nt, posted on October 10, 2008 at 06:55:07
Teresa
Just my experiences and opinions, yours may be different,
Teresa

 

RE:Another option better than Lps?, posted on October 10, 2008 at 14:30:40
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6779
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 Several years ago a friend with a significant collection of classical and jazz LPs became disgruntled with their overall sonic qualities, I think because he attended so many live concerts. So he began making his own recordings.

He bought a R2R (Otari if I remember correctly), two or three mikes and stands and a tube mixer. He started with local musicians, recording in churches or anyplace he could find with halfway decent acoustics. In short order he became a producer, bringing in artists he wanted to record at a couple of local clubs where he was able to work out deals. He worked out deals to record the artists with agreements for no commercial releases and providing tape copies to the artists. All this was strictly for his own enjoyment for playback at home. I've heard a few of these tapes and the presence, dynamics and aliveness from uncompressed, minimal miking recordings, even by an amateur with only basic equipment was truly amazing.

So (as we used to say), with a little effort you can roll your own.

 

source for tape, posted on October 10, 2008 at 14:48:00
Doug Olitsky
Audiophile

Posts: 186
Location: Sea Cliff, NY
Joined: August 14, 2000
 I buy new tape and supplies from usrecordingmedia.com. they have everything you need.

Splice it is another source there are many mail order places that carry all flavors of ATR and RMGI in pancake, 10 & 7 inch reels, 1/4 up to 2 inch

I have an Otari, same as joel and they still make it and all parts are available.

 

RE: At that rate, posted on October 10, 2008 at 16:06:24
Doc B.
Manufacturer

Posts: 5916
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: October 6, 1999
 You forgot the part about building a good mastering studio. What do you think we listen to when we want to kick back? "Gee we have this 1/4" copy and we have this 1" copy...There are arguments for both 30ips and 15ips. One is not absolutely superior to the other.

 

Nice 820, Mike., posted on October 11, 2008 at 08:39:41
Jack Seaton
Audiophile

Posts: 15756
Location: Spokane, Washington
Joined: October 1, 2004
 All of your decks look to be minty fresh, low hour units, ... just begging for use. :)

My Studer was a converted 2 inch, 16 track that didn't see much use. (for some reason, the clients wanted to use the 2 inch, 24 track instead) Which was good news for me. (I paid $1500 for it and have some money into converting it back to 1/4").

I still prefer the modified Scully's and of course, the 3M M56, with its descrete electronics and extraordinary ability to retrieve information off the reel, unlike any other. It also is void of digital clocking circuits, that introduce digital noise and timing pulses into the playback and record circuits which have no place on an analog deck, in my humble opinion.

I was perhaps hard on you Mike, because, well, ... folks listen to what you have to say and to be honest, ... what you were saying was SO far off. I'm happy for your sake that you now understand.

I suppose that you'll be selling the other decks and looking for another Studer (or better)?



 

Some of us have., posted on October 11, 2008 at 08:46:31
Jack Seaton
Audiophile

Posts: 15756
Location: Spokane, Washington
Joined: October 1, 2004

I own a 1 inch, 8 track 3M M56. I had a custom half track head made for it.

It can play 30 and 15 IPS.

Like you say, ... why not?

 

Hmm, I agree. I'll take the second or even third generation reel. :) nt, posted on October 11, 2008 at 08:49:30
Jack Seaton
Audiophile

Posts: 15756
Location: Spokane, Washington
Joined: October 1, 2004
 /

 

RE: Not according to.., posted on October 11, 2008 at 08:53:33
Jack Seaton
Audiophile

Posts: 15756
Location: Spokane, Washington
Joined: October 1, 2004
 Don't forget that a LP plant master has had it's dynamic range limited so that the stylus will have half a chance at tracking, and that open reel tape has FAR FAR greater than 35 dB of seperation.


Little things like dynamic range and channel seperation are the life of music, in my most humble opinion.

Thanks, Mothra for your input. :)

 

Amen. nt/, posted on October 11, 2008 at 12:16:36
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 nt
Regards,
Joel

 

RE: Amen. nt/, posted on October 11, 2008 at 16:08:45
Jack Seaton
Audiophile

Posts: 15756
Location: Spokane, Washington
Joined: October 1, 2004
 I can't believe that so many have so little first hand experience with open reel playback, ... can you?

And as if it was a tough battle between 2nd or even 3rd generation master reels to a pressed LP made from it. (shaking head)

Oh well, at least a couple of guys learned something today, huh?

 

Been waiting for you for 3 days now..., posted on October 11, 2008 at 16:20:39
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 Did you go on vacation or something? Been waiting for you to chime in on this thread for 3 days now. :0)

MikeL and I did our best to try to educate while you were out. Anyhow, better late to the party then never so thanks for your thoughts today!! That this thread is up to over 90 responses I believe says something---especially on a vinyl asylum. As you can see, there WERE a few that chimed in that "get-it".

I agree with what you said to Mike in the earlier post, and I sent him a PM to the same exact sentiment 2 days back----how he didn't hear this all before is a little surprising. No disrespect to him at ALL because Mike is a great guy and someone who we need in the open reel areana as he has so much "street-credit". And, he does have a world-class turntable that he is comparing tapes to. But, I've been hearing this all along (the superiority of the tapes) and even with basic (but legitimate) open reel decks.

I can hook up a $400 Otari MX-5050 (well, current price on Ebay not the 5k it cost in the mid eighties), without external electronics, and fed the right material it will smoke it's LP sister. That was the point I've been trying to make the past 3 days. You DON'T need to spend what Mike did to have vinyl playback running for shelter, though I'm sure it doesn't hurt!

Anyhow Jack, thanks again and take care. Happy reeling!!!

P.S. Can I have a dupe of one of your masters? ;)
Regards,
Joel

 

RE: Not according to.., posted on October 11, 2008 at 20:22:17
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 24045
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > With lp's you get higher second order distortion and a little bit of phase anomaly between channels.

Back in the day when I was heavily into reel-to-reel tape, I used to bias and align my own tape recorders. I seem to recall that when tape saturates it produces odd order harmonic distortion. In fact, I seem to recall that the maximum acceptable level of tape saturation was defined as 3% third order harmonic distortion. I believe I used to adjust my VU meters so that this saturation level would occur at approximately +6-VU.

This being the case, how does that correlate with the notion that tape sounds better than vinyl in lieu of the notion that even order harmonic distortion sounds better than odd order harmonic distortion?

Thanks,
John Elison

 

RE: Been waiting for you for 3 days now..., posted on October 11, 2008 at 21:49:45
Jack Seaton
Audiophile

Posts: 15756
Location: Spokane, Washington
Joined: October 1, 2004
 Evidently doesn't speak well of ATR 102 Ampex's and Tim De modded Technics, ... does it? (Mike's other decks)

I've owned a dozen stock 1500 series Technics and an ATR Services modded ATR 102 and while I don't feel that either are on par with a Studer 820, it should have been evident, even with the Technics.

Your Otari is a real work horse. Built with heavy duty bearings, made to run 24/7/365, unlike the consumer decks.

 

Otari, posted on October 12, 2008 at 05:09:56
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 Hi Jack,
Yes, I love the Otari's. I actually have four of them:
Two MX-5050 B2's, a MX-5050 B3 (current) and an MX-5050 Mk.3 console that was pictured in this thread hooked up to a Bottlehead Seduction. The Otari machines offer tremendous value in todays used market. I also have two consumer decks, a Technics 1506 and a Teac X-1000R.

None of them on par with what YOU or MikeL have, but they are all great machines in their own way. Besides perhaps the Teac, all of them are capable of dusting vinyl playback, fed the right material.

That said, what's up with the 300 2-track masters you have? How did you get those???

Take care, Joel
Regards,
Joel

 

RE: Otari, posted on October 12, 2008 at 09:09:05
Jack Seaton
Audiophile

Posts: 15756
Location: Spokane, Washington
Joined: October 1, 2004
 How did I acquire so many master reels? I have been a voting NARAS member for over 20 years. Have a few friends in the major studios, and working for the major labels.

I'm VERY happy that Dan Schmale decided to mod Otari's as they are a very solid workhorse, and they are real pro gear and not consumer grade. Otari's will be around a while, if you know what I mean.

"Besides perhaps the Teac, all of them are capable of dusting vinyl playback, fed the right material."

I'm not at all surprised. Not one bit.

See you around,

Jack

 

RE: Otari, posted on October 12, 2008 at 13:55:59
joeljoel1947
Audiophile

Posts: 1067
Location: MICHIGAN
Joined: October 16, 2004
 Awesome! And, yes, I'm glad you brought up the Otari mods. I forgot to do so in all my posts. It makes tremendous sense for DocB and the gang to go after the Otaris as they are so readily available, still in business, and "workhorses" as you state. It just makes the Otari's that much more desireable now that TP has decided to "get in bed" with Otari.

Take care Jack and I am jealous,
Joel
Regards,
Joel

 

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