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How do *you* play the Beatles mono recordings?

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Posted on September 13, 2014 at 10:49:36
Amphissa
Audiophile

Posts: 2717
Location: Zardoz
Joined: March 9, 2004
Do you just play them on your stereo rig? Or do you have a separate mono rig? Or switch out cartridge to a mono with a mono phono stage? Or what?

I'm curious how they sound with a stereo cartridge through a stereo system.


"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)

 

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RE: How do *you* play the Beatles mono recordings?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 11:29:50
volunteer
Audiophile

Posts: 5666
Location: Louisville, KY
Joined: January 7, 2012
 They will play fine through your stereo system. Use the mono switch if your preamp has one. If not, they will still sound good. A mono cartridge is ideal but not necessary.


-Wendell

 

RE: How do *you* play the Beatles mono recordings?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 11:32:34
TexSax
Audiophile

Posts: 259
Location: Texas Gulf Coast
Joined: November 21, 2002
 In my man-cave, I have a Pioneer SX-850 which has a mono switch. I have a Thorens TD 125/SME 3009/Signet TK7SU and a Dual 1019/Shure M997H attached to the Pioneer's two phono inputs playing through double Large Advent speakers. I just finished listening to all of the mono box LP's alternating the Thorens and Dual with the Pioneer in mono mode. Just fantastic. I haven't tried listening in stereo because the mono sound so completely trounces all of my stereo versions, I have no desire to do so. I doubt I will listen to my stereo Beatles LP's for quite some time.

 

RE: How do *you* play the Beatles mono recordings?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 12:06:01
ctbarker32
Audiophile

Posts: 290
Location: Kensington, MD
Joined: September 11, 2003
 With an Ortfon 2M Mono Special Edition of course! ;-)

I got my cartridge direct from Ortofon Denmark this week along with the Beatles Mono Box.

Just got it mounted on my SL-1200 with Mike New bearing and KAB Dampener.

Everything Fremer has written in AnalogPlanet is the truth. These are fantastic! So far I've listened to side 1 of Rubber Soul and am listening to side 1 of Revolver as I write. The details that come through (background harmonies, etc.) are fantastic.

For me this is the definitive release.

 

How did you go about connecting ..., posted on September 13, 2014 at 13:24:46
Amphissa
Audiophile

Posts: 2717
Location: Zardoz
Joined: March 9, 2004
the Ortofon cartridge (which has 2 poles) to the stewreo wiring of your arm (which has 4 wires)?

I know that's a dumb question, I've just never done it before.

"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)

 

RE: How do *you* play the Beatles mono recordings?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 13:31:55
jazzthusiast
Audiophile

Posts: 3078
Location: SE Texas
Joined: July 9, 2002
 Listening to mine on a SL1210mk2 (audio fidelity bearing, KAB dampener & strobe disabler, & custom interconnect upgrades) with DL103r, thru vintage Yam C6 pre w/mono switch, Yam M4 power amp, KLH 6 speakers, & outlaw sub. To my ears, I can tell a negligible difference when disengaging mono switch, but so subtle it wouldn't be a deal breaker if I didn't have a mono switch.

Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
-----------------------------
Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/DL103R/Yam C-4 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 5 spkrs-Outlaw sub

 

RE: How do *you* play the Beatles mono recordings?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 14:36:19
Rockethead26
Audiophile

Posts: 2065
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 21, 2011
 On my Sonographe SG-3 / MMT premier / Astatic MF-100 in stereo mode. Worked wonderfully, because there's no noise in the groves of these mono pressings.

 

RE: How do *you* play the Beatles mono recordings?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 14:38:55
Biff
Audiophile

Posts: 7533
Location: Portland, Oregon
Joined: January 27, 2002
 Denon DL-103R through a Cornet2 with its mono switch engaged. Sounds great.

Playing MMT right now in fact. Fabulous.

 

RE: How did you go about connecting ..., posted on September 13, 2014 at 15:21:45
ctbarker32
Audiophile

Posts: 290
Location: Kensington, MD
Joined: September 11, 2003
 The 2m SE is internally wired to allow plug and play in a stereo system:

Strapped output delivers the same output signal from both sets of pole pins. This effectively eliminates the need for mono-specific equipment, making it possible to enjoy true mono reproduction on any stereo playback system.

 

RE: How do *you* play the Beatles mono recordings?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 15:26:47
Ripple
Audiophile

Posts: 536
Location: Connecticut
Joined: September 30, 2001
 I bought an Audio Technica AT-MONO3/LP cartridge ($140 from camera_seller_ss_japan on eBay - delivered in six days). It's mounted on a Sumiko HS-12 headshell on a Technics SL-1200 II with Cardas wiring.

I've listened to the first two Beatles albums but want to let the cartridge break in before saying anything about the sound there. The first LP I played using this cartridge was the mono Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" on the DCC label (Hoffman mastered). First impression of the difference between the stereo Benz Micro ACE and the mono AT-MONO3/LP was definite with the AT having a more solid sound.

Ripple

 

Well it's 'en route' as I type this , posted on September 13, 2014 at 16:47:12
Waxxy
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Posts: 2654
Joined: July 19, 2011
Contributor
  Since: November 22, 2011
 and not far behind it will be an Ortofon Quintet Mono. I'll play it on my regular stereo rig when the've both arrived. It's my first mono cartridge. I'm a little excited.

 

Strapped output?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 18:15:40
Amphissa
Audiophile

Posts: 2717
Location: Zardoz
Joined: March 9, 2004
Being stupid, I don't know what "strapped output" means.

Are you saying that the Ortofon mono cartridge actually has 4 posts instead of 2 like a stereo cartridge? Or what? The pictures I'm finding are not exactly revealing.


"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)

 

RE: Strapped output?, posted on September 13, 2014 at 19:07:34
ctbarker32
Audiophile

Posts: 290
Location: Kensington, MD
Joined: September 11, 2003
 4 posts just like any other cartridge. The 2M SE does the mono summing inside to obviate the need for y cables or other things downstream. Makes sense since most audio systems don't have mono switches and haven't been high on people's radar for quite a while. Makes it truly plug and play for today's high-end stereo systems.

 

Today Was Day One Here …, posted on September 14, 2014 at 16:55:10
Charlie F.
Audiophile

Posts: 984
Joined: March 31, 2000
 ... which should be interpreted as “The first day that the two Beatle-holics at this residence began hearing discs from the mono vinyl box.”

The direct answer to Amphissa’s initial question: I played ’em as if they were normal stereo pressings; to wit, they were spun on a VPI Scout 1.1 with Ortofon 2M Black cart, running through a Phonomena II phono pre-amp. As someone in one of the threads has opined, the straight-ahead stereo system yields excellent sound. While I don’t doubt that a dedicated mono signal source might well have more coherence, I can say that I will be fine from now onward with what I’ve heard today.

Rather than start yet another new “Beatles Mono Vinyl Box” thread, I'll give y’all (it’s legitimate: I’m from Alabama) our initial impressions here.

We’ve both been Beatles fans since 1964. (We still have her [totally trashed] Vee-Jay “Introducing ... The Beatles” and my 45 of “I Want To Hold Your Hand”.) I have several original Parlophone monos (not one of which is in VG++ or better condition) and the mono CD box.

We played the first two LPs (“Please Please Me” and “Meet The Beatles”) and “Magical Mystery Tour” today.

Regarding the music/remastering, as Zippy the Mutant might’ve said, “Three Thumbs Up!"

Both of us were smiling almost non-stop, tapping our toes, and sipping perhaps a bit too much tequila, Grand Marnier, and lime juice (her) or Gosling’s rum and Coke (me). All the superlatives heaped by fellow Vinyl Asylum denizens held true. Immediacy, broad sound presence, clarity, and wonderful bass were there pretty well all the time. I said “broad sound presence” instead of “... soundstage” only to indicate that the mono sound – by definition carrying no ‘placement’ point information – filled the room from side to side. Huge.

I have the German Apple pressing of MMT, which, while not ‘officially Hörzu,’ has been compared favorably therewith, including the true stereo mixes and wonderful bass. The mono box mix is (obviously, fer cryin’ out loud) different from that, but, after only the one hearing, I think I would choose this version if ever I were forced to pick but one to keep.

As to the pressings, two of the discs were what we’ve been reading from other VA folks who’ve heard the mono box: very quiet. Unfortunately, side 1 of MMT has a “swoosh” that seems to last from the “track 1 to track 2 between” through the final cut. It is truly distracting, I think, only in the ‘betweens,’ but I'm going to have to listen to the side later, sans Gosling’s to be sure about this.

We are both looking forward to a heaping helping of The Four Lads across the upcoming week.

I have truly enjoyed the week-plus anticipation of this box and Day One’s realization thereof.

Happy Sunday evening,

-=- Charlie F.

 

Stereo playback, posted on September 14, 2014 at 17:37:19
Amphissa
Audiophile

Posts: 2717
Location: Zardoz
Joined: March 9, 2004
 Hmmm .... I played the new mono of Rubber Soul on my Clearaudio stereo rig and compared it to the stereo MoFi box version of the same LP.

The new mono LP was totally flat, totally silent, and totally no contest.

Waiting for my mono cartridge. The mono through stereo sux.


"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)

 

RE: Today Was Day One Here …, posted on September 14, 2014 at 18:25:59
jazzthusiast
Audiophile

Posts: 3078
Location: SE Texas
Joined: July 9, 2002
 I am very glad for you. I am enthralled with my set, and I have all the original UK monos, and glad that I do, but in some respects these may be preferable, I.e., all analogue, true to original intention & created with utmost respect to the music, gorgeous vinyl & packaging, and the book contains some great pics & recording info. It is a high quality, heritage edition.

Regards,
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
-----------------------------
Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/DL103R/Yam C-4 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 5 spkrs-Outlaw sub

 

Hmmm, indeed., posted on September 14, 2014 at 18:57:02
Charlie F.
Audiophile

Posts: 984
Joined: March 31, 2000
 Sorry to hear that mono through stereo suxed at your place.

Sure hope that a mono cart will open some space for your mono LP(s), Amphissa.

I don't have the MoFi "Rubber Soul", but I do have their MMT and White Album. What I heard today bests them sonically.

When I've heard the mono RS, I'll let you know how it compares to my Blue Box stereo disc.

 

compared a mono and stereo cart, and also sampled an early mono pressing, posted on September 15, 2014 at 22:28:02
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 it arrived today.

I just spent about an hour doing a quick sample taste of my 2 favorite mono mastered Beatles albums; Rubber Soul and Revolver.

I compared one cut on Revolver, 'Tax Man'; and two cuts on Rubber Soul, 'Drive My Car' and 'Norwegian Wood'.

I played the first 30 seconds of each cut on my mono cart/arm/phono and then on my stereo cart/arm/phono.......and went back and forth 3 times.

the mono rig is the Miyajima Premium Be Mono cartridge, Durand 'stock' Telos, and the lesser of the two phono stages in my dart preamp.

the stereo rig is the Ortofon MC Anna cartridge, Durand Telos Sapphire, and the better of the two phono stages in my dart preamp.

the differences were consistent across all three cuts. the stereo rig sounded very good by itself, but the mono rig made the stereo playback sound muted in direct comparison. the mono rig had quieter backgrounds, better decay and bloom, and had more sparkle and energy. voices were more delineated. there was more space and front to back depth.

some might view these differences as minor, even marginal. and I cannot say that every system would equally reveal the same differences or that every listener would agree.

when I was listening to Norwegian Wood I also pulled out my early Parlophone Mono pressing and my MoFi Stereo pressing to compare to the new mono pressing just to get a feel for that comparison.

the early Parlophone was a bit warmer than the new mono pressing, but it gave up quite a bit of energy and focus.....and it was much nosier....no surprise for a 50 year old pressing. I preferred the new mono overall....maybe some systems/listeners might prefer the warmth of the early Parlophone.

the MoFi stereo was a wet noodle in direct comparison......kinda lifeless.....mono is where it's at for these early Beatles albums.

one more note; with my stereo rig there was no difference with the mono button engaged or not engaged. I could hear zero difference.

anyway....it's just a first taste.....there is lots more ground to cover. and I reserve the right to adjust my perspective as I spend more time.

*****

as I sit here a bit later I've listened all the way thru Revolver and Rubber Soul......and am half way thru Sgt. Peppers. this is the best I've ever heard these mono mastered albums sound. for now I'm only listening to the mono rig. but I'd guess it would also be a new reference with the stereo rig too.

'A Day In The Life' is epic.

just a little larger viewpoint

 

Thank you! And a Question, Please …, posted on September 16, 2014 at 06:53:06
Charlie F.
Audiophile

Posts: 984
Joined: March 31, 2000
 This early-on review has information I'm quite pleased to know. I look forward to reading more after you've lived with the box a while.

A question if I may:

On the Miyajima Labs website, there are two "Premium MONO" carts listed. The straightahead "Premium MONO" has a 0.7mil conical stylus, while the "PremiumBE II MONO" shows a 1.0 mil conical stylus.

Would you please tell me the diameter/ radius size of your stylus?

Thanks again,

-=- Charlie F.

 

RE: Thank you! And a Question, Please …, posted on September 16, 2014 at 07:11:17
mikel
Audiophile

Posts: 2774
Joined: July 4, 2000
 I do have the 'Be' version of the Premium Mono.

according to the specs in my box it's a 0.7 size, not 1.0.

mikel

 

When I Saw the "II" at the Webpage …, posted on September 16, 2014 at 09:35:50
Charlie F.
Audiophile

Posts: 984
Joined: March 31, 2000
 ... I began wondering if your cart might be different from what they're currently listing.

Well, dang it.

I imagined that you likely had the narrower stylus, but I was hoping against hope that it just might be the Big Baby. I've got an almost unplayed Ortofon SPU Mono (with the 1mil stylus) and a spare armwand. For just a moment, I thought I might be all set to make a quick jump. But no. Rats!

Thanks again,

-=- Charlie F.

 

RE: How do *you* play the Beatles mono recordings?, posted on September 16, 2014 at 12:44:40
cactuscowboy@bresnan.net
Audiophile

Posts: 7738
Location: Powell, Wyoming
Joined: July 23, 2007
 For playing Beatles or any of the other thousands of Mono 78s/45s/LPs:

78s:

1) Stanton 500 (stereo cartridge) with any one of six different styli, signal summed to mono at the phono preamp.

2) Audio Technica SP (mono high output MC w/78 stylus)

45s/LPs:

1) Ortofon OM or Concorde body (stereo) with D25M 1.1 mil conical stylus, summed to mono at phono preamp.

2) Grado ME+ (mono cartridge) with 1.0 mil elliptical stylus.

3) Any of a dozen plus stereo cartridges, summed to mono at the phono preamp.

I particularly like the Ortofon with D25M.

 

Important observations, posted on September 16, 2014 at 15:16:40
M3 lover
Audiophile

Posts: 6772
Location: SW Mich
Joined: May 29, 2005
Contributor
  Since: July 4, 2007
 Thanks Michael for taking time to post your observations.

You did make a couple of points which I've also experienced but are dismissed by some others. Maybe it is individual ears or system differences? I'm not sure.

First, many folks assume than mono means flat and lifeless. Yet you found "there was more space and front to back depth". Now I wouldn't suggest a mono recording can present the same soundstage array as a good stereo recording. But I have heard some of the surprising depth you mention from mono recordings. Musicians need not be lumped together like a deck of cards.

Second, I've read several times where some suggest all that is needed is a mono switch or Y connectors to sum the signal. Maybe that is true if all one owns is a handful of mono recordings. But for anyone with more than a few then I expect a further effort to improve mono playback will be rewarded. So your "there was no difference with the mono button engaged or not engaged" was quite revealing.

"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho

 

Gotta ask: six styli for the Stanton 500?, posted on September 20, 2014 at 17:25:00
jsusky
Audiophile

Posts: 181
Joined: May 17, 2000
 What are the differences?

 

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