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Recent adventures with a near-fully tweaked Technics SL-1210 MKII

168.94.245.2

Posted on December 20, 2012 at 11:57:03
Jsawyer09
Audiophile

Posts: 554
Location: Midwest
Joined: January 2, 2008
I’ll start-off by saying that this is a follow-up to this thread that I started (see below at end)

Now, my observations will in no way try to make any efforts toward comparing past ‘tables; specifically the Well Tempered Amadeus (there are just too many variables and differences to make any such comparison meaningful, especially given the DD vs. Belt debate).

So it has been about a month; and I have since added the following:

• TTWeights SuperPlatter1866gm Copper Mat
• Ortofon Kontrapunkt b MC Cartridge
• Applied Fidelity Gen 3 Sapphire Bearing
• Isonoe Footers (arriving this coming Monday, so cannot comment)

As you can see, there have been quite a few major tweaks/adjustments since my last observations about this ‘table. I can unreservedly state that each addition has brought about significant improvements to an already highly-modded, impressively performing turntable. That said, I don’t think any have made such a night/day improvement right off the bat as the Applied Fidelity Improved Bearing upgrade. Typically in all things audio, I have noticed that changes in cables and certain equipment or tweaks (amps and speakers notwithstanding) only bring about very minor ‘improvements’, and often quite subtle as to be not entirely worth it in the larger scheme of things. However, when I installed Jim Howard’s (tubesforever, as he is called) bearing yesterday, I was gobsmacked by what I was hearing when compared to the original bearing. I think it was EdAInWestOC who had reviewed his Gen 2 bearing not all too long ago, and my findings are pretty much in alignment with what he had reported. I listened to three albums I’m quite familiar with before installation of the Gen 3 Sapphire bearing, which, by the way, couldn’t have been easier to install (only about 10 minutes, at most). I then listened to the same three with the new bearing in place, and the differences were immediately noticeable (regardless of how unreliable aural memory serves us). Small nuances before just leaped out; bass had an almost ethereal quality, with real grip and drive; instruments of all types had such control, as though everything just came into focus, and the soundstage had astounding solidity. It was one of those upgrades that truly was a night and day difference. I never say that, because it simply never materializes quite like this. I have to say a huge kudos to Jim at Applied Fidelity. It isn’t cheap, but nothing in this hobby really is, is it? Also, very few items will bring about such a profound change for the better — even at twice the price.

Another significant improvement was with regard to the cartridge change. It shouldn’t be too surprising that the Ortofon outclassed the ZU Denon 103. In my system, it was noticeable pretty much from the first side of the first album I listened to. Case in point: On the track The Fitted Shirt from Spoon’s Girls Can Tell LP, a Clavichord is used to great effect about mid-song and toward the end. It has a really fun series of notes being played with the rest of the song. With the ZU, it was nearly entirely hidden in the mix; almost muted, and hardly discernible. When I cued-up the same track with the Kontrapunkt b on the SME, this wonderful instrument was about a foot outside the right speaker, a foot forward, and was loud and clear. I knew right away that the ZU was limited in its performance. Now, it’s not the ZU’s fault, I am aware. My guess is that it isn’t as compliant as I first thought, holding its place with the SME 309. Something was holding it back, because having owned a Midas bodied 103R, I can vouch for its thrill factor and relative detail retrieval. So there’s that.

On a side note, I would wholeheartedly recommend the Ortofon when combined with an SME 309. They seem to gel quite amazingly. It is a wonderful presentation no matter what kind of music is played.

I think that’s really all I can offer here right now. I’m still trying to figure out what this ‘table is now doing — all things considered. On the whole, I am completely satisfied with the Technics and all of the tweaks I’ve done to it. They have each in some way contributed to turning what I can only guess is a very good turntable into a significantly high-performing instrument of music playback. Where my former Amadeus/Dynavector XX-2 combo just seemed to play music in an effortless fashion — nothing more, nothing less, this version of a souped-up Technics brings an exciting, fun, even thrilling portrayal of whatever’s in the grooves. With these latest additions, I find that I can close my eyes and focus on something other than what the ‘table or the tweaks are doing, which is, in most listening sessions recently, just enjoying the music. Normally, additions and tweaks distract me from what it is I set out to do. Not so in this case, though I readily admit that I had to do some concentrating here and there upon each new installment, but once in place, it was getting increasingly easier to just put on an album and listen without distraction.

I would be very comfortable stating that it can easily compete performance-wise with decks out there in the $5K - $6K range, no doubt. I’ve owned a couple in that range, and cannot remember being this satisfied with the results straightaway (save the Amadeus, which was so inoffensive and downright effortless at just getting out of the way). I am a bit stunned by how much I am enjoying this turntable. I have a few friends that have ‘tables in this range and quite a bit over as well, and after listening to theirs independently (albeit, every one of these gents has completely different equipment and carts, which is why I cannot make apples-to-apples claims of superiority one way or the other, nor should I), I feel mine is every bit as good, and even excel in certain areas over theirs. However, it also lacks in some areas, too; specifically in terms of tonality and ‘texture’, but perhaps not to the extent that it would be all that noticeable or even bothersome to any great degree.

I can now see why so many folks have enjoyed having the Technics, regardless of its form or iteration, as their main vinyl spinner. Its ease-of-use and engineering alone make it a great platform with which to begin a very rewarding adventure.

PICS TO COME…

 

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If I'm not venturing into classified territory- What is the cost of the bearing? It sounds like the biggest , posted on December 20, 2012 at 19:19:45
BillyBenBilly
Audiophile

Posts: 1425
Location: New Mexico
Joined: July 31, 2003
bang for the buck kind of upgrade for the SL-1200.

 

RE: If I'm not venturing into classified territory- What is the cost of the bearing? It sounds like the biggest , posted on December 20, 2012 at 19:29:20
Jsawyer09
Audiophile

Posts: 554
Location: Midwest
Joined: January 2, 2008
I don't think it's a problem stating price. The Gen 3 jeweled bearing is $375. I have to say, for any turntable upgrade, it is the best $375 I have spent (and I spent tons when I owned, say Linns), bar none. Seems like Jim is onto something with his ceramic/sapphire interface.

 

Thanks for the info. I had looked at the tubesforever website and could not find a price. nt , posted on December 20, 2012 at 21:13:22
BillyBenBilly
Audiophile

Posts: 1425
Location: New Mexico
Joined: July 31, 2003
.

 

RE: Thanks for the info. I had looked at the tubesforever website and could not find a price. nt , posted on December 21, 2012 at 03:45:23
Posts: 599
Location: North East
Joined: November 13, 2010
Is the spindle modified or checked prior to installing the improved bearing since it is the other 1/2 of the bearing/spindle component?

 

RE: Thanks for the info. I had looked at the tubesforever website and could not find a price. nt , posted on December 21, 2012 at 05:26:52
Jsawyer09
Audiophile

Posts: 554
Location: Midwest
Joined: January 2, 2008
It's a good question. I don't know if this answers it specifically, but Jim states that 'the bearing shaft is plasma vapor deposition coated; the nitride surface offering superior lubrication qualities and a hardness that will never scratch or wear in normal use. The bearing spindle rotates against a space age plastic designed specifically for low RPM bearings...The bearing is approximately 0.225 inches taller than the stock bearing to accommodate various thick mats on the surface.' So, I think it's safe to say, yes, it is both modified and checked prior to installation of the improved bearing.

It appears to be an entirely different animal upon first inspection (though, not as radical a shift as the Mike New bearing). When I installed it, I had to fit it 'spindle first' up through the Technics bearing housing/circuit board because it was noticeably taller than the original.

 

Questions, posted on December 22, 2012 at 15:21:11
vinyl survivor
Audiophile

Posts: 1471
Location: Southeastern US
Joined: November 28, 2007
You mention above the following:

"Now, my observations will in no way try to make any efforts toward comparing past ‘tables; specifically the Well Tempered Amadeus (there are just too many variables and differences to make any such comparison meaningful, especially given the DD vs. Belt debate)."

Yet you also mention in another post:

"The 'table is already by far the quietest I've owned.."

Did you have the same cartridge on the Amadeus as the Technics? Also why did you go from the Amadeus to the Technics? Is there something you like better with the Technics or visa versa? Just curious...

Thanks!

 

RE: Questions, posted on December 22, 2012 at 15:45:32
Jsawyer09
Audiophile

Posts: 554
Location: Midwest
Joined: January 2, 2008
Hello.
No, I never had the chance to try same carts on the different 'tables. Arguably, the Dynavector is the 'better' of the two; and its synergy with the Amadeus is pretty stellar. I've always loved Dynavectors. The only reason I went for an Ortofon on the Technics, is because of the damped, warmish nature of the SME. I figured a highly clean and detailed cart would match up well with the arm (and boy does it).

My efforts to downgrade my vinyl system led me to the Technics. I've owned Idler and DD 'tables before, and really appreciate some of the things they do; couple that with ease-of-use. I read and read about the SL series, never owned or heard one, and simply got curious.
When I scored a new one, my curiosity of tweaking it got the best of me, and the rest is (recent) history.

I think I started out just wanting something simple, yet something that had a great reputation overall. It's just there became a point of no return when I started tweaking. Much of it was happenstance, because at the outset, I really only had aspirations to go the KAB mods route.

I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't purposely go from an Amadeus to a Technics; it was more or less by accident. However, now that I have the 'table where it is, I cannot say I miss the WT Amadeus all that much. I don't feel this Technics is lacking anything that the Amadeus offered. Don't get me wrong...like I said, the Amadeus has an uncanny way of presenting music in an incredibly natural and effortless way. It's difficult to put your finger on. It's just one of those turntables that you have to experience to understand where I'm coming from. Alternately, the Technics has such drive, stability and solidity to images that it makes every record fun to listen to. They layering of instruments is often difficult to fathom. They just seem to hover in their own space, spread out wonderfully across the stage. They just seem to be two different animals, and very well could be largely attributed to a difference in engineering (belt vs DD).

A great deal of trash-talking over the years and across the net really kept me away from it. Not sure why. It's pretty clear it is a well thought out and engineered 'table. It probably begs to be modded, but I wouldn't doubt it if it sounded just fine on its own.

So for what it cost me, personally, to 'upgrade', it was entirely worth it in every respect. In real world terms of cost, they are probably neck and neck, so realistically it translates to a $3,000 'table competing with what I believe could hold its own very well against $5K-$6K ones...IMO, fairly easily. I hope this helps.

 

Thank you for the kind words about the Sapphire bearing., posted on December 22, 2012 at 18:04:59
tubesforever
Manufacturer

Posts: 10505
Location: Great Basin
Joined: May 7, 2005
The back story about this 3rd generation bearing is really a testamony to a fellow who was in the final year of his PHd work at the University of Minnesota. His specialty was testing bearings.

When Doug saw all the back and forth comments about bearings and how they contribute to the sound in of our systems, he asked if I would like him to do a thorough test on the materials.

We tested a variety of materials. His analysis was extremely helpful. Doug told me then that Sapphire would be a winner.

This asylum is such an awesome place.

It is write ups like the one you did on your project that make me smile.

No, yours is not a budget approach to high fidelity. I think you said you did it to simplify the LP playback process. Spending less time tweaking and more time listening is now my number one goal. The SL1200 allows you to accomplish this goal.

I am glad that there are those out there willing to try on an SL1200 for themselves. The table cries out for improvements and responds in kind.

Your receipe is outstanding.

I just got a note today from a fellow that had me modify his SP 15 with the Sapphire bearing. He was one of the very first to get one. He said he spent a couple weeks with a Kuzma Stabi and kept going back to the SP 15. He describes its sound as "amazing".

Thanks for taking on your project, documenting it so well and describing your receipe and the sonics you achieved.

Let me know how those footers sound in comparison to the stock feet.

Thanks again for the kind words.

Happy New Year!


"Help support our school's Music programs"


 

I list pricing at the Audio Asylum "Discount Drive" , posted on December 22, 2012 at 19:10:31
tubesforever
Manufacturer

Posts: 10505
Location: Great Basin
Joined: May 7, 2005
I need to update my website. Sorry about the inconvenience.

"Help support our school's Music programs"


 

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