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Great results with battery ground tweak

104.162.166.150
Posted on July 31, 2015 at 19:51:56
Paul_A
Audiophile

Posts: 2553
Location: New York City
Joined: April 3, 2000
 The damned thing really works and I'm impressed. I've put battery/capacitor/bypass cap combos on my amp pre-amp and phono pre. I wonder if the battery charges the chassis, and the charge repells stray electrical fields.

 

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RE: Great results with battery ground tweak, posted on July 31, 2015 at 20:15:13
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 If you meter the component, there is no real charge on the chassis.

But I do believe the "surplus" of electrons as Bud Purvine puts it suppresses some of the EMI and RFI that enters the ground line. Maybe it dithers it ( the noise), but I am not sure of the exact mechanism.

Again a lot of other tweaks are addressing round control issues. I am wondering if we are not all trying to get at the same end result. (Entrec, for example).

All I can say is thanks to Bud for the inspiration.

You'll notice I steal a lot of ideas, but always try to give credit where due.

 

Talent borrows; genius steals., posted on August 1, 2015 at 04:26:28
Paul_A
Audiophile

Posts: 2553
Location: New York City
Joined: April 3, 2000
 Or as Tom Lehrer said,

Don't shade your eyes, plagiarise.
Only be sure to call it research.

 

Neither talented nor genius...., posted on August 1, 2015 at 15:36:41
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 just a bit wacko.....say ain't it full moon?

 

RE: Neither talented nor genius...., posted on August 1, 2015 at 23:28:57
beautox
Manufacturer

Posts: 366
Location: New Plymouth
Joined: July 9, 2013
 'fraid it is
http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phases_calendar.phtml

 

Awoooo.............!!!! NT, posted on August 2, 2015 at 13:53:22
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 stu

 

RE: Great results with battery ground tweak, posted on August 2, 2015 at 22:52:11
Vincin
Audiophile

Posts: 200
Joined: October 14, 2005
 one more here confirming that this silly tweak actually works. Also Unclestu is quite spot on with the total amount of capacitance required and different tastes of smaller by-pass capacitance to make things open up.

I do not often hear differences in different wires, but the expansion of sound stage with the 9V battery + a few tens mF capacitance is hard to not notice.

 

Not so silly, posted on August 3, 2015 at 00:55:22
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 when it works, despite all signs pointing that it shouldn't.

A couple of EE's I approached about the idea, gave me a blank stare, and said with the positive not connected to the component, in any way, you should expect zero results: nada, absolutely nothing. When they heard the difference themselves, a lot of head scratching went on, and all admitted nothing like this ever appeared in their university textbooks, do they were truly stumped.

Any rate , I am glad it works for you, and thanks for the favorable mention. That's the only thing that counts, in the end.

 

BGT rocks!!!! Thanks Stu!!! n/t, posted on August 3, 2015 at 18:12:56
tweakmenow
Audiophile

Posts: 245
Location: East Coast USA
Joined: March 26, 2012
 .

 

You are most welcome, posted on August 4, 2015 at 00:48:11
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 Glad it works for you and that you like it !!!!

 

so exactly what did you do........., posted on August 4, 2015 at 03:57:06
2395
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Australia
Joined: June 4, 2003
 please explain what you made.....where and how you put them and where there any differences in the units depending on where you put them.....
i.e a DIY for us to understand....
thanks

 

RE: so exactly what did you do........., posted on August 4, 2015 at 18:56:17
ipdtt
Audiophile

Posts: 123
Location: Northen Ca, USA
Joined: August 10, 2014
 You can get all the information you need hear.

See link:

~D
Wherever you go there you are.

 

RE: so exactly what did you do........., posted on August 5, 2015 at 09:02:30
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 When using the BGT on an input, is it advisable to eliminate the RCA shorting plugs on the other inputs? My thinking is, if the BGT is supposed to be hooked to ground only, the shorting caps may put the "charge" onto the positive pins as well.

 

That's pretty much what I did, posted on August 5, 2015 at 09:56:37
Paul_A
Audiophile

Posts: 2553
Location: New York City
Joined: April 3, 2000
 The battery is 9 volts

The large capacitor is 10,000 uf

the bypass capacitor is an EPCOS/TDK Polyester film capacitor, 1.0uf 100V DC, as reported here:

 

Here are 47000uF caps I use (under $15 for 10 pieces, all included, from eBay):, posted on August 5, 2015 at 14:54:18
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 N/T

 

RE: so exactly what did you do........., posted on August 5, 2015 at 19:51:46
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 Things like the Cardas caps present no issue at all.

Some shorting plugs insert a 75 ohm resister between the positive and ground to short out the digital outputs. I haven't tried nor analyzed the output circuit so I really do not know what the effect would be. On the inputs, though, use of a RCAin BGT means the shorting resistor would be disabled anyway

 

RE: so exactly what did you do........., posted on August 5, 2015 at 23:45:06
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 but there's more than one input, and the negative in which the BGT is plugged is connected in series to the other inputs. I think I'll remove the caps when I try the BGT

 

RE: so exactly what did you do........., posted on August 6, 2015 at 14:36:52
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 If the RFI blocker is merely a cover and has no center conductor, You can leave it on. Cardas caps are a good example. It covers the negative RCA but mkes no contact with the center pin.

 

RE: so exactly what did you do........., posted on August 6, 2015 at 14:49:09
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 The caps I'm using have the center pin, to ground the unused circuit. So being that all the grounds are ganged together, the unused circuits would now have the "charge" or whatever the BGT does, on them. So, thats why I opt to remove the caps.

 

RE: so exactly what did you do........., posted on August 8, 2015 at 04:48:29
pc123v
Audiophile

Posts: 225
Joined: February 6, 2014
 Hi Guys,

Interested in trying this tweak out. Can someone who has tried this tweak elaborate on how it affects the sonic presentation overall. My set is on the bright side. Would it give more hf output and extension? How about mids and bass? Extension and more output at the top end would probably be a step in the wrong direction for me. Need a more relaxed/softer top end. Thanks

 

RE: so exactly what did you do........., posted on August 8, 2015 at 08:48:34
jhrlrd
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Joined: October 21, 2014
 How dead is your room? if you have no treatment that may be why it sounds top-endy

 

Hypothesis, posted on August 13, 2015 at 07:24:02
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 I have been wondering why it could be that huge amounts of capacitance, as first reported by UncleStu, seem to augment the positive effects of the BGT. It occurs to me that very large value aluminum electrolytic capacitors tend to have more leakage current than do smaller value ones. (The leakage current is still on the order of micro-amps, so we are not talking about a grossly defective capacitor, just an imperfect one by design.) So perhaps there is a positive effect due to the fact that with a relatively leaky capacitor placed across the pos and neg poles of the battery, an actual circuit is created. As a result of that, whatever the BGT may do to augment the ground plane is done better when there is actually some electron flow. But like Stu mentioned, this does not at all explain why a film bypass capacitor results in a further subjective improvement; a non defective film cap should have zero leakage.

 

RE: Hypothesis, posted on August 13, 2015 at 08:41:25
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17302
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 Current across the battery but no current to or through the ground plane.

Would someone please explain again how this can have any effect?

Tre'


Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

I know, but..., posted on August 13, 2015 at 09:57:39
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 so many here seem very positive about the results... I am just searching for some logic. Al Sekala wrote that it might either add RFI to the signal (and this might perchance be heard as beneficial) or subtract it from the signal, by some mechanism.

 

RE: I know, but..., posted on August 13, 2015 at 17:00:27
ipdtt
Audiophile

Posts: 123
Location: Northen Ca, USA
Joined: August 10, 2014
 The quote from "unclestu":

"A couple of EE's I approached about the idea, gave me a blank stare, and said with the positive not connected to the component, in any way, you should expect zero results: nada, absolutely nothing. When they heard the difference themselves, a lot of head scratching went on, and all admitted nothing like this ever appeared in their university textbooks, they were truly stumped."

And for some the easy answer is WHY ASK WHY...Lol

I made a 100,000uf BGT with a .15uf bypass cap that is plugged into the USB port of my iMac that i use to stream music to my Headphone Dac/Amp, and it's so good that the BGT will remain there, like OMG all that has been said (GOOD) about the BGT is true.

YMMV

The Man From U.N.C.L.E. Stu. Thank You.

~D
Wherever you go there you are.

 

"Why ask why?", posted on August 16, 2015 at 07:52:25
Lew
Audiophile

Posts: 10912
Location: Bethesda, Maryland
Joined: December 11, 2000
 Because only by asking why (and then trying to answer the question) is real progress made. If your forebears had not asked why, you would be sitting in a cave waiting for a miracle.

 

why not try?, posted on August 16, 2015 at 14:19:47
unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010
 More ideas on the subject while actually experiencing it can only help the discussion. Using textbook physics seems to provide little or no answers. The fact that i works and the fact that even Bud Purvine's simple wire tweak also work indicates a deep gap in our current understanding.

Just My opinion of course

 

RE: "Why ask why?", posted on August 16, 2015 at 17:44:27
ipdtt
Audiophile

Posts: 123
Location: Northen Ca, USA
Joined: August 10, 2014
 Hey Lew, i like my cave...and i need two miracles.

And where do you see ("I") or ("me") in this sentence: "And for some the easy answer is WHY ASK WHY...Lol"

~D
Wherever you go there you are.

 

A funny thing about the bypass cap and fo.q audio TA-102 Tuning Material , posted on August 19, 2015 at 17:21:13
ipdtt
Audiophile

Posts: 123
Location: Northen Ca, USA
Joined: August 10, 2014
 "I made a 100,000uf BGT with a .15uf bypass cap that is plugged into the USB port of my iMac."

I applied a 3/8"x1/4" piece of fo.q audio TA-102 Tuning Material to the .15uf bypass cap and the upper midrange to the top of the high frequencies became cleaner/clearer and more focused. The .15uf Vishay cap was already attached to the front of the 9v Duracell battery with a heavy duty double sided tape from 3M and running in my system for five days before i applied the fo.q audio TA-102 Tuning Material to the bypass cap, so why would this improve my BGT???...but i am glad it did.
YMMV

~D
Wherever you go there you are.

 

RE: Great results with battery ground tweak, posted on August 20, 2015 at 19:16:04
bravi
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Location: Wellington
Joined: October 26, 2005
 I have been using the 6v lantern battery with bypass caps of lower value for the last two years. With the recent post on increasing capacitance, I tried it out and found a huge improvement. My basis for evaluation is the headphone output on my Revox B77 reel deck.

Question for unclestu; With the same capacitance value, can the 9v battery provide the same level of sound quality as the 6V battery? Has anyone compared? I have not tried this so far as I have to buy fresh batteries. The other issue is I have soldered connections to the 6v terminals. Not sure if the 9v batteries can tolerate that.

 

RE: Great results with battery ground tweak, posted on August 20, 2015 at 20:48:33
pixelphoto
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: December 15, 2009
 bravi, the 9V batteries will handle the soldering just fine. If you are concerned about the heat affecting the battery use a small alligator clip as a heat sink.

 

RE: A funny thing about the bypass cap and fo.q audio TA-102 Tuning Material , posted on August 22, 2015 at 13:41:20
alan m. kafton
Manufacturer

Posts: 5285
Joined: April 7, 2000
 Why? Apparently there are vibrations running through these components as signal (however it is, and whatever amount) is being directed through them. This is a wonderful discovery.

The TA-102 and (the thinner) TA-32 materials definitely work as intended.

 

RE: A funny thing about the bypass cap and fo.q audio TA-102 Tuning Material , posted on August 23, 2015 at 23:49:56
ipdtt
Audiophile

Posts: 123
Location: Northen Ca, USA
Joined: August 10, 2014
 "The TA-102 and (the thinner) TA-32 materials definitely work as intended."

They are both excellent at what they do.

~D
Wherever you go there you are.

 

RE: Great results with battery ground tweak, posted on August 31, 2015 at 08:23:08
doglover1
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Location: southeastern US
Joined: May 14, 2010
 I built 2 video units (2 47k uf caps with a 0.15 bypass cap connected to a 9v battery) and 2 audio units (1 47k uf caps with a 1.0 uf bypass cap connected to a 9v battery).

I connected the audio units first, using an rca plug on each. One went to the Oppo 105, and the other to the Candela tube linestage. I wasn't sure I liked them at first as the top end seemed a little enhanced. Positive improvements included enhanced tactile sensation with all instruments: horns had more bite, bass more muscular, vocals more present and realistic. The soundstage also seemed a little better. I removed them and the system still sounded clean and quite good, but the improvements went away. Plugged 'em back in and they returned.

I decided to keep them for a while just to hear if the caps underwent any changes. They did and the slightly tilted up high end resolved so that I have all the benefits now without any drawbacks. The soundstage has improved slightly since the first used as well.

The video units I connected first to the cable box and TV, and couldn't really tell much difference. Then I moved them to the AVR video out, and the BluRay player. We spun DePalma's "The Untouchables". I can't say the picture is better because I'm not sure my video memory is accurate, but it was pretty stunning. The thing that both my wife and I noticed is how the speakers disappeared. Sounds flew around the room as if the we were in the scene.

I may remove them to see if the improvements go away.

This is such a cheap and easy tweak. Thanks so much for this Uncle Stu!

 

RE: A Great Tweak!, posted on October 8, 2015 at 18:34:20
Tireman2012
Audiophile

Posts: 13
Location: British Columbia
Joined: December 21, 2012




Uncle Stu,

Thank you for your extra-ordinary innovation!

I've made a couple of BGTs with amazing results. Last night, I put an 0.22 uf bypass cap on a 9 V + 4,700 uf X 3 BGT, which connects to the -ve post of loud speaker. Holly, the reproduction of music improves further. I can hear more layers and details, and so lively too.

As far as I know, many diyers in Hong Kong have been intrigued by the BGT recently. They have tried different values of capacitors. Generally, the more higher values of by-pass capacitors they use, the more improvement in reproduction of music. I am going to make some more...

What a great tweak with so many variations you can play with!

 

RE: A Great Tweak!, posted on November 14, 2015 at 14:36:17
barondla
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: midwest usa
Joined: May 26, 2007
 I have a dumb question. When using bgt with a stereo preamp do we use 2 bgt (one for each channel) or does a single one take care of the whole unit? My preamp is single ended RCA, not balanced. Same question if building these for speakers.

Already built two for the preamp. Haven't used them yet.
Thanks.

 

RE: A Great Tweak!, posted on November 14, 2015 at 15:46:42
Tireman2012
Audiophile

Posts: 13
Location: British Columbia
Joined: December 21, 2012
 I think a single bgt will be fine for the whole system. Actually, I've tried using two ( one connecting amp and the other DAC), feeling the sound reproduction a bit not natural.

 

RE: A Great Tweak!, posted on November 15, 2015 at 08:23:41
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 does a single one take care of the whole unit?

It's not dumb - it's perfectly reasonable. In the sense that there's a continuous ground from input to loudspeaker, I'd have thought the answer would, at least nominally, be yes.

I used banks of 3x3,300uF Nichion caps (w 100n bypass) at several points in the system, each with its own 9v battery. That way seemed to sound better to me than just the one though I've not double-checked by later removing this or that.

I didn't get an issue with unnatural sound as Tireman2012 reports. Who knows? You might - but I didn't :>)

HTH

Dave

 

Just Tried this..., posted on November 15, 2015 at 14:07:12
Maxamillion
Audiophile

Posts: 856
Location: New Jersey
Joined: May 26, 2006
 Went into the junk box, soldered up two 5600 and two 4700 Panasonic T-HA electrolytics, a 1uF Solen PP bypass and an Energizer 9V. Also soldered a clip lead to the negative of the battery so I could try it in different places. First place I tried it is on the low frequency EQ unit for my Infinity RSIIb speakers, which is connected between my preamp and amps.

My system is already very clean, clear and dynamic. In about 20 minutes of with and without listening I do hear a difference. With the BGT seems to have a bit more weight in the lower midrange, a little punchier bass and perhaps a little less grain in the treble (but there wasn't much to begin with).

I need more time but so far I like what I'm hearing. Not night and day, but noticeable.

 

RE: A Great Tweak!, posted on November 15, 2015 at 20:57:48
barondla
Audiophile

Posts: 537
Location: midwest usa
Joined: May 26, 2007
 Thanks for the answers guys.Tried single bgt with 9v battery on my transformer based passive line stage. No matter what cap value I used the highs bothered me. Switched to 6v lantern battery and the highs don't stick out so much. Every cap makes a sound difference. There is a wider, deeper soundstage with right combination. Shows potential.

 

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