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CBS 5814

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Posted on November 17, 2010 at 20:49:18
Tube Cadet
Audiophile

Posts: 105
Location: NJ
Joined: November 22, 2002
I just installed pair of CBS 5814 in my preamp based on praised in this forum. My first impression of the sound is great tone but to me the soundstage seems too forward and exaggerated and in your face therefore fatiguing after a while. I had RCA BP prior to the CBS and i have to admit I really like the RCA is has great tone yet with lots of detail and just sounds very natural and relaxed to me, Is it possible that the CBS needs to break in for a while? The RCAs from my recollection sounded great from the get go but where used stock not sure if the CBS are new or used, Anyone have the same experience with the CBS? Did they settle down after some use?
Thanks.

 

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RE: CBS 5814, posted on November 18, 2010 at 20:12:17
tvr2500m
Audiophile

Posts: 1687
Location: Boston
Joined: February 2, 2003
"Flat" D or square'ish getter? That's the later and last CBS 5814A type. As Pat S points out, the upward/tilted/bent rectangular getter is the earlier one. I've found these two tubes to reliably sound different from one another.

Pat S mentions the early-'50s long plate GE 12AU7. I also think this is a very nice sounding tube. It has sounded plenty good across a number of different system configurations. I like this tube a lot.

Let us know how the CBS 5814As you're getting sound.

- SJ

 

RE: CBS 5814, posted on November 19, 2010 at 12:11:43
Tube Cadet
Audiophile

Posts: 105
Location: NJ
Joined: November 22, 2002
How do the tilted versus the flat getter version sound different? Which one do you prefer? Actually the ones I have are starting to settle down apparently a break in time is required. They are starting to sound really good not as forward and exaggerated soundstage more relaxed. The ones I have are labeled in blue (CBS) and I just received in the mail red labeled ones but they are also flat D getter. I plan to leave the blue ones in for a while to let them break in fully before trying the red ones. I assume they will sound the same since they appear to be the same construction but just different color label but I really don't know until I try them. Thanks.

 

RE: CBS 5814, posted on November 17, 2010 at 22:28:32
Pat S.
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Westminster, CA
Joined: April 10, 2002
Do they have the upward-tilting D-shaped getters? Are they labeled CBS or CBS-Hytron? Also, are the black plate RCA's you speak of also 5814's? And, are they the 3 mica or 2 mica version?

In my system, I find the CBS-Hytron to sound similar to the RCA 2 mica BP 5814. Both are detailed and clear sounding. The CBS has a bit more detail and midrange presence. I wouldn't call it fatiguing, but I do think that the RCA does have a more relaxed sound without sounding muddy or dull. The RCA's bass sounds a little fuller too. Now, if we are talking about the RCA BP 12AU7, that tube (to me) has a very rich midrange and good soundstage depth but is slow and soft compared to the RCA and CBS 5814's.

BTW, I recently tried a pair of 50's GE long grey plate 12AU7's in my amp. I wasn't expecting much, but I have to say that I really like what I'm hearing. They are quiet, clear, extended and detailed. Maybe a tad forward, but not hard or fatiguing, either. Good bass, too.

RIP Dave Brubeck: 1920-2012

 

RE: CBS 5814, posted on November 18, 2010 at 18:33:26
Tube Cadet
Audiophile

Posts: 105
Location: NJ
Joined: November 22, 2002
They are flat D getter. The RCA BP are 5814. I much prefer 5814 to any 12au7 that I have Tele, RCA, Raytheon. I also tried 5963 which are extended at both ends especially the bass but are not quite as good in the tone department which is important to me. I do have some RCA BP that sound better than others, they appear to be the same construction but when I look closer it appears to me that the ones with thicker mica spacer have superior sound (magic). They are labeled CBS in blue and will be getting a pair in the mail labeled CBS in red

 

RE: CBS 5814, posted on November 20, 2010 at 12:44:14
Anacrusis
Audiophile

Posts: 190
Location: Southern California
Joined: September 18, 2006
I have three CBS/Hytron tubes:
High post slanted square getter with red CBS/Hytron lettering
Medium post slanted square getter with white CBS/Hytron lettering
Top mica mounted bent square getter with white Hytron lettering

Similar sound but the top mica is clearly superior to the other two, on a number of counts.

Curious that the high post mounted tubes are considered older than the top mounted Hytron considering that Hytron is known to have existed prior to it's affiliation with CBS. Further, many other 50s vintage tubes tend not only to have top mica mounted getters, but also tend to use white lettering. Curious too that this top mica mounted version is clearly superior and that older tubes are thought to sound better to their newer, ostensibly, copied counterparts. Hmmmm

Anyway...

As far as it having a forward character, it might, depending on what other tubes you are using it with. For me, the top mounted mica version works wonderfully well with both the gray and black plate Sylvania 5751s, with the Raytheon windmill getters it is somewhat forward. My advice is that you don't discount the tube. It is so good, I'd use it as your control and choose around it.
The real beauty of music lies in the ambience of the venue.

 

RE: CBS 5814, posted on November 21, 2010 at 13:45:40
tvr2500m
Audiophile

Posts: 1687
Location: Boston
Joined: February 2, 2003
Three different types? Interesting. I haven't noticed this, or failed to notice this, or don't have such tubes myself. I have only fair few of the really early, Hytron-only, while labeled tubes (would be happy to have a few more). I have had frequent good results with all the raised/angled/bent rec. getter tubes.

Would you happen to have pictures of these different construction types?

Another nitty detail is tht some of this early-/middle '50s tubes have short heaters, and some have tall, pointed heaters that prominently above the top mica. Yeah, sometimes I do have better things to do that peer intently into these little glass bottles ;)

- SJ

 

RE: CBS 5814, posted on November 23, 2010 at 14:10:02
Anacrusis
Audiophile

Posts: 190
Location: Southern California
Joined: September 18, 2006



I'm glad that you asked for photos!

Pictured:

White GE labeled 5814, with short post, slightly lighter black plates, bent square getter, copper rods, silver clips and a double top mica. These also have a 5814 etched code at the top of the glass face.

Pair White CBS Hytron labeled 5814 with medium post, black plate, bent square getter, copper rods, silver clips and a double top mica.

Red labeled, CBS labeled 5814a with high post black plate, bent square getter, copper rods, silver clips and a double top mica.

I will re-evaluate these using an Amperex 12AU7 long plate top mica mounted getter as a control behind a pair of Gray Plate Sylvania 5751s and tell you what I find.

Here are my impressions:
The Amperex is darker in character with deeper more powerful bass than the above tubes. It would probably work well with the Raytheon 5751 windmill getter as a counterpoint.

The GE labeled are more lucid, immediate, have seemingly better focus and more realistic mid range timbre. Nicely detailed very listenable. I find myself disinclined to pull it. This is clearly a Hytron tube or a mighty good copy!

The red label CBS have a similar tonal balance but the bass is not as impactive deep or defined, the mid range is less present, a little thinner and has a slight electronic quality compared to the GE labeled above. This is all just relative, it's still a pretty good sounding tube.

The white label CBS Hytron sounds like the GE, present, lucid, dynamic. It might be slightly more vibrant than the GE, but at this level, it might be my imagination.


The real beauty of music lies in the ambience of the venue.

 

RE: CBS 5814, posted on November 24, 2010 at 20:21:57
Tube Cadet
Audiophile

Posts: 105
Location: NJ
Joined: November 22, 2002
Well I have concluded both tubes are really fine sounding but I prefer the RCA BP 5814. It has a more relax sound, the soundstage is a little further back, better texture and tone. You can tell that a saxophone is a reed instrument. Now the CBS 5814 I have has blue label with a flat square getter not bent or lifted therefore is not one of the ones you have pictured so who knows how the RCA would compare with one of the Hytron/CBS.
Thanks for the picture and comments.

 

RE: CBS 5814, posted on November 19, 2010 at 08:52:31
Pat S.
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Westminster, CA
Joined: April 10, 2002
As Steven points out, The pair you have were made a bit later than the ones I have. I haven't compared the two types, so I couldn't tell you if there are differences sonically. In his post, Steven mentions a noticable difference, however. I would think that what you have are still fantastic sounding tubes, though. Maybe you just prefer the sound of the RCA's. Nothing wrong with that.

RIP Dave Brubeck: 1920-2012

 

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