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Mac Mini vs Macbook and Itunes 8.0 vs 7.7

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Posted on September 18, 2008 at 17:33:20
Tokyohifi
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Location: Japan
Joined: February 17, 2008
 I have read some of the threads discussing the sound quality differences between Itunes 8.0 and 7.7. Seems like there many people that think the upgrade to 8.0 sounds better, while quite a few think it sounds worse. Count me in the latter group. I noticed a thicker midrange with a more congested soundstage and as a result, lower resolution of lower level details. It was frustrating enough that I set up an experiment last night to see if I could verify my initial impressions.

So, I compared the mac mini running 8.0 vs a new macbook running 7.7 (my wife's - I haven't let her upgrade yet for this exact purpose). I burned the exact same songs from the same cds with the same settings, so I could eliminate as many variables as possible.

The results are that the mac mini/8.0 was several db's louder and definitely more congested and thick in the midrange versus the macbook/7.7. The macbook sounded much more delicate, natural and enjoyable. I can't say that 8.0 rolled off the highs, but I can say that the resolution was lower. I also found the mini/8.0 to become fatiguing after only a few minutes of highler spl listening, versus the macbook/7.7.

Now the obvious question is how much of this difference can be attributed to the difference between 8.0 and 7.7 and how much of it is related to the macbook and the fact that it is 'off the grid' versus the mac mini. I have no idea, but I haven't heard much in the past about the superiority of macbook sound quality vs the mini, so at this point, it seems that most of the difference is related to the different itunes versions.

I am planning to do another comparison this weekend with the above two setups versus a third option - another macbook(same specs) with 8.0. I'll then be able to more closely pinpoint the source of the differences.

Thoughts, opinions?

Seph

FYI, my system is an Accuphase A-45 amp, Luxman C-600F preamp, Pioneer S-3ex speakers, with Wavelength Cosecant v3 dac. Cabling is AQ sky, and AU24 speaker cables. Power cables are mixture of Japanese brands.

 

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RE: Mac Mini vs Macbook and Itunes 8.0 vs 7.7, posted on September 18, 2008 at 17:52:02
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 I had to lower the output level of my sub with iTunes 8. After that, I had detail, balance with no congestion in the midrange or high end fatigue. I'm using a 2.8GHz iMac.

As AudioDoctor previously observed, the Equalizer was engaged with installation of iTunes 8.

Another friend with a new Wavelength Cosecant really liked iTunes 8. He has an excellent high end system.

Could the higher output you observe be overloading your preamp with a higher output from the Cosecant? Can you lower the input level on your preamp?

I have no doubts that some people don't like the sound of iTunes 8. It is different sounding from iTunes 7.7. Thank goodness you can reinstall 7.7

 

RE: Mac Mini vs Macbook and Itunes 8.0 vs 7.7, posted on September 19, 2008 at 05:28:47
???
 You need to eliminate the variable of different computers before you attempt to gauge differences between 8.0 and 7.7. Otherwise, there's no way to tell whether the differences you're hearing are due to the differences in the computers.

In any proper research design involving comparisons, everything needs to be identical except for the variable you're trying to measure. In your case, the computers are different and if I'm interpreting your "off the grid" comment correctly, how you're powering the computers is also different.

 

RE: Mac Mini vs Macbook and Itunes 8.0 vs 7.7, posted on September 19, 2008 at 08:54:49
Steve Jones
Audiophile

Posts: 566
Location: Great Pacific Northwest -Vancouver, WA USA
Joined: November 2, 2003
 I don't know is this was the equalizer feature that Audiodoctor refered to, but when I upgraded to iTunes 8.0 there was a new "Settings" icon in the Front Row menu. Selecting Settings, is a menu selection for Sound Enhancement.

This mirrors the Sound Enhancer feature in the iTunes Preferences menu.

It is set "on" (default) in Front Row when upgraged to iTunes 8.0.

With it active, the sound from my system is similar to your description of what was you consider wrong with iTunes 8.0.

With it turned off, it was back to the way it sounded with iTunes 7.7. Might be a pinch better, but I'm not going to unistall/install to compare it.

 

RE: Mac Mini vs Macbook and Itunes 8.0 vs 7.7, posted on September 19, 2008 at 09:47:21
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Look under "Window" and select "Equalizer". It should not be selected.

I'm listening to iTunes 8 now and it sounds excellent.

 

RE: Mac Mini vs Macbook and Itunes 8.0 vs 7.7, posted on September 19, 2008 at 17:06:33
Tokyohifi
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Location: Japan
Joined: February 17, 2008
 Thanks everyone for their comments. I did check all the itunes settings, and everything was off -equalizer, sound check, etc. I may not be able to do the itunes 8 macbook vs mini as quickly as I hoped. However, I did some additional experimentation last night with power cords on my dac. I was using a harmonix studio master and switched to a small Japanese brand, called Chikuma. Bottom line is that I think I have figured out (at least in my system, with my room and my ears) what the differences are that I am hearing.

The Harmonix pc is well known for being a purposely 'musical' cord, meaning that it's design goals were not to be even across all frequencies and strive for accuracy - namely some heft in the midrange and weight to the low end. Perhaps with 7.7, the harmonix was adding exactly what my system may have been missing and therefore been a good synergistic match. However, having switched to a pc that is well known for being more neutral and transparent (in Japan, at least) has resulted in my system now sounding better with the mini/8.0/chickuma pc than it ever did before with the mini/7.7/harmonix.

Mercman, to your point, I agree even more now that some will like 8 more and some will like 7.7 more, probably depends on which way your system is leaning. I think my initial comments regarding increased volume and midrange congestion, relate more to what the harmonx was doing to the setup w/8.0 than any fault with 8.0 itself. I do find now that the system sounds slightly more resolved, delicate and enjoyable. Guess it just goes to show how important power cords are.

I realize that all of my observations and comments are far from scientific, and I tried to acknowledge that up front. My purpose in posting is to try to get some advice/feedback and also provide an additional set of experiences to everyone out there, as I'm sure several people are having similar questions/experimentation on their own.

 

Power Cords and Tonal Balance?, posted on September 19, 2008 at 19:50:58
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 Would someone please be kind enough to explain how a power cord can be designed to alter the tonal balance?

Tony Lauck

"Perception, inference and authority are the valid sources of knowledge" - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: Power Cords and Tonal Balance?, posted on September 19, 2008 at 21:53:51
Tokyohifi
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Location: Japan
Joined: February 17, 2008
 Well, I can't tell you how, but I can tell you that Harmonix did intentionally 'tune' their power cords, just reference their marketing slogan on the outside of the box, which states, 'World's First Tuned Cord'. Or do a google search on harmonix studio master and several reviews will come up, such as the one from Ultra Audio, which talks about this exact aspect.

 

Marketing Gloss., posted on September 20, 2008 at 08:08:39
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 "Well, I can't tell you how, but I can tell you that Harmonix did intentionally 'tune' their power cords, just reference their marketing slogan on the outside of the box, which states, 'World's First Tuned Cord'."

So they say. However, I am immune to marketing gloss, direct or indirect.

Tony Lauck

"Perception, inference and authority are the valid sources of knowledge" - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: Marketing Gloss., posted on September 20, 2008 at 08:56:51
Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002
 Greetings Tony!

AC cables can and do create changes in the perceived tonal balances of a DAC-especially in a high quality DAC like the Cosecant Version 3. I have used the Harmonix AC cables in my system, and have found them to be warm sounding with a tilt toward the low end. I presently use a Synergistic Research Hologram D AC cable for my DAC. This cable puts out a very neutral tonal balance with a large 3-dimensional soundstage and reduction of grain.

When are you coming over for a demo?

Steve

 

RE: Marketing Gloss., posted on September 20, 2008 at 09:00:47
Squonk
Audiophile

Posts: 1886
Location: Indiana
Joined: August 17, 2005
 I think you may be right. I upgraded some power chords (mostly because the ones that came with the Active 40s were hideously ugly beige and both were right angled. huh? weird.) Anyway, I thought I may have heard a difference in dynamics but wasn't sure. Was probably placebo. If there truly was a difference, it was extremely small. However, I got some BADASS looking power cords coming out of my speakers now.




 

Power Chords..., posted on September 20, 2008 at 09:55:07
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 "I think you may be right. I upgraded some power chords (mostly because the ones that came with the Active 40s were hideously ugly beige and both were right angled. huh? weird.)"

Chords out of tune? Time to call the piano tuner? :-)

[I made the same typo several times while making my post, I think I caught them all, but no warranty...]

Tony Lauck

"Perception, inference and authority are the valid sources of knowledge" - P.R. Sarkar

 

Well I'll be damned., posted on September 20, 2008 at 11:07:06
Squonk
Audiophile

Posts: 1886
Location: Indiana
Joined: August 17, 2005
 I caught my mistake later in my post if you notice, but didn't catch the first one. Good Lord!




 

RE: Mac Mini vs Macbook and Itunes 8.0 vs 7.7, posted on September 20, 2008 at 18:53:19
8086
Audiophile

Posts: 60
Joined: December 23, 2007
 I feel the same way about itunes 8, I did a comparison between 8 and 7.7

In terms of macs and sound, yes different computers sound different, likely related to the noise they create while running.

My best results are with a 15" powerbook, with chud tools installed and "napping" turned off. (search I made a post about this about 6 mo back).

Napping is something that was first turned off with g5's in recording studio that made chirping type sounds. Napping mode tells the processor to save cycles and heat by switching on and off.

There is a similar feature in the core series of intel chips... I think the app coolbook allows you to control it.

 

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