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Advanced Four Phase Cyrclotron

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Posted on February 9, 2010 at 10:17:17
Banat



Helo to everybody from OTL asylum.There is NEW OTL Cyrclotron Topology.Four Phase Cyrclotron,aproven in praxis(4x6c33c-b),there ist result:Beter tube reliability,no DC or AC interaction between tubes beacose output tube dont share comon power suply,COMON is only LOAD(SPEAKER).Lower output impedance,beter damping factor,higher output power.Output tube dont must be matched so precicly.It is posible to made Cyrclotron OTL power amp with 6phase,8phase,10phase or 12phase(depending from outuput power request) in the same way.In this 4 phase topology if one tube arcing ,dont pull antoher tube in breakdown.Disvantages:More complex PSU.Here is preliminary Schematic:

 

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RE: Advanced Four Phase Cyrclotron, posted on February 9, 2010 at 11:50:54
Banat
 One more thing in these Four Phase Cyrclotron topology,Driver cyrcuit(CF-type)have a easyest job,beacose they drive only one tube per phase (not bank of tubes).Anyway this OTL topology sounds Excelent.

 

RE: Advanced Four Phase Cyrclotron, posted on February 9, 2010 at 12:52:13
Ralph
Manufacturer

Posts: 5145
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 24, 2002
 Interesting!

How is this different from a '2-phase' Circlotron driven by 4 driver circuits? You already have your power tubes in pairs with common cathode circuits.

 

RE: Advanced Four Phase Cyrclotron, posted on February 9, 2010 at 13:54:53
Banat
 Wel Ralph it is quit diferent from 2 phase topology.If you loking good on this schematic V1&V2 is one(2 phase)amp,and V3&V4 is second(2phase)amp.The result is two amp bridget.And when we bridge two amp result is.... .Input in this amp is diferencial but ewerything is changed in output 4 phase stage.Think you understand me now.Symply this topology work good(and sound good).BTW 4 drive unit is 2x6h8c and input stage is cascode unit from your old MA1(e88cc&12at7).It is posible to made this bridged bridge topology in 6,8,10,12,14,16phase(depend from output power requirment.Salute

 

RE: Advanced Four Phase Cyrclotron, posted on February 9, 2010 at 15:10:07
Banat
 Or we cant put in next way for symple experiment:Put two M60 in paralel work(both input&output conected together,driven simuntaneosly from same dif source)result is Four Phase amp.Sumary: output impedance is drasticly lower,output power doubled.With 3xM60 paralel result is actualy 6 Phase amp and so on and on.But that wel be to expensive single 4 or 6phase amp.That what I propose is schematic above.In Start we can made 4,6,8,10 or xxx phase output stage(depending from output power reqirement),drive that unit(each phase) with separtely driver cyrcuit and thats is.Regard

 

RE: Advanced Four Phase Cyrclotron, posted on February 10, 2010 at 08:42:16
Ralph
Manufacturer

Posts: 5145
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 24, 2002
 In order for that test to be fair, you would have to remove half of the power tubes in each amp, so that the result would have the same number of tubes as a single M-60.

We've done that before- for a long time we had the idea of 'just by a second one' as a means of increasing amplifier power by simply monostrapping the amps.

What we found is that was not what the market wanted. That's why we make different models. But in the process, we found that the output impedance in such a hookup, given that there are an equal number of tubes, is unchanged.

 

RE: Advanced Four Phase Cyrclotron, posted on February 10, 2010 at 10:29:16
Banat
 Got your message Ralph.My intention here on this OTL ASYLUM is only to contribute further improvment of Cyrclotron OTL amplifer(both in quality & reliability).Ralph I have wery good opinion about your work and contribution in HI-FI world.Found thats your ATMA-SPHERE amp,Preamp,and other products are Masterpiece of modern tube elecrtonics and design.Thats fact, these is and others people opinion.Thats what HI-FI market demand is High reliability,High quality,High Fidelity amp(ATMA-SPHERE amps it is all that).Customer demands some output power( thats depends hove much loud music they want and hove much cash they have).This my Invention ist Full Floathing 4 Phase Bridge Hi-FI amp.All 4 output Phase(tube)ist on SAME Chasis together with 2 drive 6h8c(spllited in four driver stage)and e88cc&12at7 input stage and asocieted output 4 phase SS rectifier PSU(of course there is also bipolar driwer&input stage PSU)I dont want forget filament trafo is here too.There is NO Monostraping of two amps at all.Thats ONE Integral chasis .And these my amps made excelent music too.They work unkonditionaly stable(like ewery cyrclotron OTL amps).Got no testing Eqipment(except my ears)so I have no results,but maybe RALPH you can made some test on some4,6,8,10 or 12 phase prototip.best Wishes

 

Excellent job! I like it., posted on February 16, 2010 at 04:53:59
6AS7_6SN7



I have carried out some provisional simulations of your very innovative four phase circuit (see the schematic with 6AS7 tubes, as I do not have any 6C33C LTSpice model).
I have adjusted the drive level of the four phase driver (90 V peak, 180 V peak to peak) to get 500 mA (peak) out of each 6AS7 triode, and this means that the tubes have been pushed very hard.
The results under these 'ideal' conditions, that is, with perfectly identical matched devices, perfect driving signal simmetry and ideal voltage sources are very interesting (no second harmonic at all (perfect PP operation), predominant third harmonic).
In order to facilitate the interested inmates to figure out how the four phase circuit works I have also attached the graph of the main currents and the spectrum of the speaker output current.

Thank you again for posting, in my opinion this is one of the most inspiring posts I have seen so far in this OTL asylum.

Best Regards

 

Four Phase Main Currents, posted on February 16, 2010 at 04:57:11
6AS7_6SN7



This is the graph of the currents (class AB1 operation).

 

Output Spectrum at clipping, posted on February 16, 2010 at 04:59:21
6AS7_6SN7



This is the output spectrum @ 1A peak current in the load.

 

RE: Excellent job! I like it., posted on February 16, 2010 at 10:31:45
Banat



Ok Man.Thats Spice program its not reality(maybe Spice cant give only some prelyminary results),I dont have Spice or Expensive testing equipment but I have my ears.On my real amps,and real speaker 4phase amps sound better than 2phase amp(more relaxed,beter bass,got some secure feeling).want to made some 8phase OTL Circlotron in future(that depends from factor called Cash).But I dont see impedance results(thats wel be interesting).Anyway thats my MULTIPHASE INVENTION work and sound good.There is 6 phase amp schematic so Man try to made some Spice Test and publish here(curious to know impendance results).Salute and Thanks.

 

N phase circlotron - output impedance, posted on February 17, 2010 at 00:48:01
6AS7_6SN7
 The simulated output impedance of the 4/6/8/10 phase circlotrons (of the same type as depicted in my previous post with 6AS7 tubes) are:

Four phase: 42 Ohm
Six phase: 28.2 Ohm
Eight phase: 21.4 Ohm
Ten phase: 17 Ohm

By adding more tubes, i.e. more phases, the simulated maximum output power goes up accordingly but the output distortion @ 500 mA peak current per 6AS7 triode remains essentially the same as for the four phase circuit.

Best Regards

 

RE: N phase circlotron - output impedance, posted on February 17, 2010 at 01:00:35
Banat
 Thanks Man

 

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