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Advice needed re Repairs to 3.6 R speaker wires

99.188.85.106
Posted on April 17, 2009 at 14:38:46
Jim Cate


 

I have a "buzzing" sound in one of my 3.6Rs associated with fairly loud piano music and the like which I assume is caused by one or more speaker wires coming loose from the mylar diaphram. I intend to try to repair it, and I'm having difficulty following the single page of instructions sent to me by Magnepan. - Perhaps someone can help me. (I have searched, but most of the posted notes relate to the 1.6 rather than the 3.6R.)

First, the directions state that I have to remove the front trim strips, lay the speaker face down, and remove all screws from the oak frame and input plate. However, I don't know what the "input plate" is, and they didn't tell me.

I next have to remove all the staples from the bottom of the speaker and slip off the fabric bag. Question: In this process, do I have to remove the 3.6R tweeter assembly first? In other words, does the fabric bag extend under the tweeter assembly? Also, when I re-attach the bag after the repairs, do I have to use multiple staples attached in somewhat the same location and pattern as are now there? If so, does anyone know what size staples should be used? (I understand that there are 60 or so staples holding the sock on.) I'm a little concerned that the shock from a staple gun inserting 60 staples might tend to damage or again separate the wires or panels.

Regarding the 3M #77 adhesive and 3M 30NF overcoat (which I have), I understand from articles by Peter Gunn and others that the 3M 77 adhesive doesn't hold well, possibly because of an environmentally-related formula change. Mr. Gunn recommends Weldwood DAP clear touch-n-tone instead. So, that's what I intend to use, unless someone on the forum has other advice.

Any other helpful (and hopefully encouraging) advice from others who have been gone through this process will be appreciated. For example, I'm wondering whether most owners' repairs are successful, assuming we follow directions carefully of course, or whether it's likely I will have to ship the speaker back to Magnepan after a few months anyway.

Thanks,
Jim Cate

 

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RE: Advice needed re Repairs to 3.6 R speaker wires, posted on April 17, 2009 at 15:31:54
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hey jim

the advice and instructions provided by our dr. peter gunn is spot on, and there is no complicated difference between the 1.6 and 3.6 models in terms of repair.
yes, there are a lot of staples and you will have to disassemble the whole lot. its by no means terribly difficult or dangerous....just take your time !

you will need to take out the ribbon tweeter (no unsoldering required) to get the sock off. be careful to place the magnetic strip on the back first.

standard staples will be fine and there should not be any damage done using a staple-gun.

just take your time and you´ll be fine.

kind regards

PS: if you´re really smart, you will gain a huge improvement by replacing the mediocre crossover components with some quality parts, now you have the sock off already !

 

RE: Advice needed re Repairs to 3.6 R speaker wires, posted on April 17, 2009 at 20:19:37
Jim Cate


 
What's involved in upgrading the crossover network? I'm not sure I want to get into that, but if the parts are available at Radio Shack I might want to look into it.

Thanks for the information.

Jim

 

Clarification, posted on April 17, 2009 at 20:44:37
Peter Gunn
Manufacturer

Posts: 3980
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: April 16, 2001
 What you are describing is mid panel delam. It is at least one wire, and possibly more. The ends may or may not be peeling as well, but if so you won't know until they're open because they do not make noise generally.

To repair this you need to use DAP contact adhesive, NOT the DAP touch n tone. These are two entirely different products. The touch n tone is used after the delam is fixed with the contact adhesive to spray treat the drivers to remove any gumminess and prevent future delam. (Hopefully. It is not a guarantee but if it doesn't work nothing will)

You don't need to use the touch n tone, but if the driver is going it only makes sense to spray it. If you do one, do both, even if only one is coming undone right now. Search the archives for the best method to apply it.

If done right the DAP has proven reliable (No wire I have re-attached with it has ever come off again that I am aware of) and the touch n tone also seems to kill the deterioration problem in it's tracks. I first sprayed my quite gummy SMGa's with it.... probably 3 years ago now, and they remain perfectly tack and problem free to this day.

Good luck


It's all about the music...

 

RE: Clarification, posted on April 17, 2009 at 21:18:23
Jim Cate


 
Thanks for the information.

My Maggies are about eight years old, and the problem (buzzing only on loud, dynamic music such as solo piano) started rather abruptly a few weeks ago. In trying to analyze possible causes, I did recall playing some music with fairly low, and loud organ notes, played at fairly high volumes. My guess is that the low frequency organ notes imposed an unusual and demanding load on the speaker, but the load probably didn't seem unusually loud or deleterious because of the Maggie response rolloff at low frequencies, and also the fact that bass is not heard loudly from panel speakers. Due to their bipolar response, low notes would tend to cancel each other out somewhat. In other words, my speakers were pumping away trying to reproduce the low organ notes (which I heard from the sub, incidentally) but their efforts weren't clearly audible or apparent.

If this is what happened, what should be done to avoid the problem? I think it would be useful as a preventative measure to utilize a high-pass circuit or its equivalent that would prevent very low frequencies from getting to the Maggie woofers, e.g., notes below 15-20 Hz or so. - On the other hand, the problem with that approach seems to be that any such circuitry introduces some distortion. Also, most of the digital processing systems don't seem to be adjustable to such low frequencies. Comments?

Jim

 

"if the parts are available at Radio Shack" ..., posted on April 17, 2009 at 21:26:20
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12661
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 Jim,

I suspect the parts available from Radio Shack aren't even up to Magnepan's standards! :-))

Have a look through this catalogue; I think p9 shows copper foil inductors and film caps are before that:
http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf

Replacing the external XO box is not a trivial - or cheap - undertaking, as the quality parts cannot fit into the external XO box. Here's a pic of the replacement external XO I made for my IIIas about 15 years ago - ugly isn't it! :-))





I suggest an alternate approach for you (given you said you didn't even know what the "input plate" was) is to go 2-way active; replace the external passive XO box with something like a Marchand active XO and buy a second stereo amp. You can get plenty of advice here about what XO modules to order from Phil Marchand.

Regards,

Andy

 

I don't believe your playing organ music caused the delam ..., posted on April 17, 2009 at 21:36:58
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12661
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 However, it is a good idea to impose a LF highpass filter in front of the signal to the Maggies - so the bass panel doesn't chew up available amplifier power trying to reproduce the lowest octave (with consequent distortion).

You said you have a sub - doesn't that have, say, a 12dB highpass filter built in?

Regards,

Andy

PS: I doubt your 3.6s deliver anything you can really hear, below 30hz (certainly not 15-20hz) ... possibly a bit higher even.

 

I wonder..., posted on April 17, 2009 at 21:47:51
Peter Gunn
Manufacturer

Posts: 3980
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: April 16, 2001
 No, you were not responsible for this. This was going to happen.

You're also wrong about bass. Bass waves are of low modulation and high excursion and they don't place stress on anything. It's the highs, vibrating tremendously with little excursion that ... well, I won't say causes it, magnepans loyalty to an inferior product is what causes it, but it's always going to be on the highs that you hear the buzzing because they are asking the most from the wires.

I have been thinking about this, and I know Jim Whiney made these while an employeee of 3M, and as any engineer will tell you that meant that Maggies belonged to 3M, not him, yet we know 3M allowed him to pursue it unfettered. I wonder if part of that deal was that magnepan continue to use 3M products. Of course they may just do it out of a sense of loyalty, but in any case it's the milloxane or 30-nf (depending on your vintage) that is responsible, not the music you played.

If you fix them correctly my way you will have fixed the problem. If you send them back for repair at some juncture in the future it will happen again. Now, I can't say my way is permanent, but so far so good....


It's all about the music...

 

RE: "if the parts are available at Radio Shack" ..., posted on April 17, 2009 at 23:02:15
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 well, the active way wit a marchand crossover is surely the superior modification -or not even a modification, rather an upgrade in terms of electronics.
the replacement of the internal mid-/high crossover is an investment, surely, but still less expensive than a proper electronic XO and a second amplifier....

if you´re completly unable to handle a soldering iron, try to think if there is anyone in your social circuit that will help you....it´s such a satisfactory job to have done once you hear what you have gained !

 

RE: I wonder..., posted on April 17, 2009 at 23:07:06
Green Lantern
Audiophile

Posts: 16952
Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: November 12, 2002
 I recall reading an interview regarding Jim Winey's venture into the Maggie World but as usual I never saved it on my hard drive and have since forgotten it's original source.

I do recall him stating he had his ephinay while sitting at his desk at 3M, and in the evenings experimenting with 3M's mylar at home (and eventually coming up with his Magneplanar prototype).

He further mentioned going to his boss and asking for a leave of absense and permission to use the mylar (and totally expecting intellectual property right issues from 3M); but much to his surprise they allowed him to pursue his dreams complete with written permission along with their blessings.
Now I can't help but wonder if they just thought the guy was going nuts designing a 'flat' phonographic speaker made out of their mylar, and just wanted him out of their hair:).

Well he went on to point out that the little savings he and his wife did have were quickly disolving and the fact that his kids were now being born brought on an even newer sense of urgency (if not a question to his own sanity).

He closed the interview stating all that really mattered was his wife having total faith in him and his dream; his prototype making the rounds to local dealers, and the rest as they say, is 'history'.

"You don't have to be faster than the lion....
just the guy running next to you.." -anonymous

 

RE: "if the parts are available at Radio Shack" ..., posted on April 18, 2009 at 08:06:37
Jim Cate


 

I don't have any trouble handling a soldering iron, and I have assembled several amps and receivers from kits. And taken several college courses in electronics, circuitry, and physics. I was just pointing out that the directions given by Magnepan (sent with the 3M 30NF Adhesive), was not very helpful. Even ignoring their possible bias toward 3M products. Peter's (archived) directions were much more explicit. In other words, the term "input plate" happens to be a term that Magneplanar technicians decided to use re this particular component, and it is thus essentially technical jargon. (Poor technical writing, as often seen in owners manuals, technical instructions, etc., is a particular gripe of mine.)

In any event, with the helpful information received from this group, I think I now have a pretty good understanding of the process. (One more question: I'm assuming that I should remove the "box," containing the crossover network and speaker wire inputs, before removing the sock. Is this correct? Or is that considered a part of the "input plate"? Again, Magneplaners' instructions didn't mention it.)

Someone asked about my woofer. - It's an older, Velodyne 18-inch F-1800 RF. It does have a high-pass circuit that I could use to prevent low-frequencies from getting to the Maggies, but I haven't used it for that purpose because one of the Maggie managers recommended running the sub and the Maggies independently, or in parallel, rather than connecting the speakers to the sub. - They thought that having any components in series with the speakers would mess up the response to some degree. However, I might try that approach. Regarding the statement that the Maggies doen't reproduce anything below 30-35 Hz anyway, I think you are missing the point. - Whether they reproduce it or not, they are still TRYING to reproduce it, and there is an undesirable and unnecessary load on the speakers. Regarding the statement that it's the high frequencies that "buzz", not the low frequencies, I'm aware of that, but nevertheless, I'm thinking the damage was caused by high stresses on the wires and panels when the speakers were sent big surges of power accompanying loud, low frequency material. I could be wrong, of course, but as indicated earlier, the buzzing started rather soon after playing the high volume organ notes.

As to upgrading the speaker crossovers, I don't have time to get into that at this point. If someone can cite sources reporting some good blind listening tests, level matched, demonstrating the improved results, I'll consider it later.

Thanks again for the helpful informaton. I'll report back on the results.

Jim Cate

 

RE: "if the parts are available at Radio Shack" ..., posted on April 18, 2009 at 09:01:03
Jallen
Manufacturer

Posts: 193
Joined: February 4, 2002
 I have the 3.6, went to the James 1500 sub, and a 3-way Xover Marchand XM44, and ditched the passive. I crossed the bottom over at 80Hz, and can now adjust the low frequency to be better in the room. I have just started, but I am within 3db from 50Hz to 12.5k with a 4-5db bump at 100Hz. That is measured from the listening position, not at 1 " or 1 Meter in front of the speaker. The only to adjust in-room responses is having some type of EQ device. As a cost effective option, the passive is good, but the active gives so many more fine-tuning options, and the ROOM is "the final frontier" and ultimate challenge. How to keep a wife happy and a pair of ears equally happy.
Also, photos of your project would be helpful for others who need to go on this adventure. Jallen

 

A small apology, Jim ..., posted on April 18, 2009 at 16:54:43
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12661
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 for implying that you mustn't know how to wield a soldering iron. (I'd have made it a large apology if you'd bothered to register on this site (so your name comes out in bold) ... I believe the community feeling here is: those who don't have the courtesy to register are probably just trolls.)

Re. the Magnepan manager's comments about running the Maggies full-range and not "polluting" the signal going to them with a preceeding low-end high-pass filter ... my response to that is:

* This is the Magnepan manager thinking "inside the square" instead of outside. Yes, I would agree a HP filter - any HP filter - will pollute the higher frequencies. However, as you pointed out, the bass panel is still TRYING to reproduce the extreme LFs - and this:

a) is sucking a lot of amplifier power (which could be better used on the other frequencies), and

b) is forcing the mylar to excurt further away from the magnets. As the 3.6 has magnets on one side of the mylar only (unlike the 20s & the 20.1s which have magnets both sides), higher excursions push the signal wire into regions of lower and lower magnetic field strenth - so you end up with distortion in the signal.

* If you go 2-way active with your Maggies and replace the external XO box with a 2-way active XO, the mid/ribbon output of this XO goes straight to the amp which is plugged into the mid/ribbon speaker-wire connectors on the back-plate.

* The bass output from the active XO goes to the sub - which splits it into LP for the sub itself and HP for the Maggies bass panel. (And the sub HP output goes into the amp feeding the 3.6 bass panels.)

Result - no "pollution" of the mids & highs by the sub HP XO. Yes, in a theoretical sense, there's "pollution" of the bass signal from the sub HP filter - but IMO this will not be audible.

Now, re. your comment in relation to XOs: "If someone can cite sources reporting some good blind listening tests, level matched, demonstrating the improved results, I'll consider it later".

Maggieism is a religion, Jim, and - just as in all religions - you need to have some faith. EG. that giving up chocolate, cigars and loose women for Lent will have a payback in the afterlife! :-))

The Planar Forum is where enthusiasts hang out - who learn from the experiences of others and who, mostly, like to make their Maggies sound better. You will read plenty of enthusiastic posts about what people have done to their Maggies - myself included - but unless you have even a tiny bit of faith, you will never realise the benefits they achieved, yourself. Because you'll never be able to do A/B double-blind tests! :-))

And that's fine - Maggies are a wonderful speaker ... but they are built to a price. And they're capable of delivering far more performance than what comes outta the factory! :-)) BTW, to turn your 3.6s into the "ultimate" pair - with a sound that leaves stock ones for dead - you would have to do the following:
* Replace MDF frame with a hardwood frame 1" thick (and round-off the front edges).
* Through-bolt the bass/mid panel to the hardwood frame.
* Through-bolt the ribbon cage to the frame - and IMO, reverse the ribbon cage so you are listening to the back of the ribbon (which doesn't have the horizontal bars ... so must have less diffraction than occurs with the stock, front-facing situation)
* Install the frames in braced stands.
* Remove internal and external passive XOs and run 3-way active.
* Replace Magnepan wire connectors on the back-plate with good binding posts (3 pairs per speaker).
* Remove the mid-panel fuse. (Some people would say remove the ribbon fuse too - I'm too chicken! :-)) )
* Replace ribbon fuse-holder with a quality fuse-holder.
* Replace all the internal hookup wire.

And, depending on the amplifiers you have, you should implement something that will kill the RFI that the drivers - particularly the ribbon - pick up. Al Sekela's "series choke" tweak is one way; I personally use a parallel cap.

And finally, re. "Poor technical writing, as often seen in owners manuals, technical instructions, etc., is a particular gripe of mine" ... whilst I agree with you that one can find many instances of instructions etc. that lack clarity, IMO this can often be attributed to lack of imagination - aka lack of ability to think "outside the square"! :-))

If the person who wrote the instructions/manual/proposal etc. had been able to put him/herself in the frame of mind of the reader, s/he might've understood that what s/he had written was not clear. Likewise, when someone reads something and can't understand it, I believe it's a good idea to stop reading, take a deep breath, open one's mind and try to explore what the writer could've been thinking when s/he wrote that.

Good luck with your 3.6 journey; I suspect it will be a short one and you will never get to hear what 3.6s are capable of. (Whereas in the 18 years I've owned my IIIas (the 22-yr old versions of your 3.6s) - and all the mods I have done to them - I can confidently say they have never sounded better.)

Regards,

Andy

 

maggieism !, posted on April 20, 2009 at 01:28:10
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 one is almost tempted to print your "statement" here, frame it handsomely and hang it on the door to the listening room.....

 

Hehe ... in that respect, Leif, Maggie is comparable to the Sirens who tempted Odysseus ..., posted on April 20, 2009 at 02:44:08
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12661
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 "Submit to me and I will deliver you unimaginable aural delights"!! :-))

Regards,

Andy

 

RE: Clarification, question, posted on April 21, 2009 at 13:31:07
JimCate


 


I do have the Weldwood DAP contact adhesive (not the touch n tone). After applying the Weldwood adhesive, I had planned to apply an overcoat of 3M 30NF adhesive, unless you advise otherwise.

My speaker is now disassembled, the staples, tweeter assembly, and sock have been removed, and I have been inspecting the coils that may have come loose. - I would like to describe what I am seeing and hopefully get any further advice from you, or anyone else who has gone through the proceedure.

It appears that some of the mid-range speaker coils (the smaller wires) are not firmly attached to the supporting plastic sheet in an area about a foot above the lower end of the speaker. This is the area from which I had heard the "buzzing" sound, incidentally. However, the looped end portions of the wires, both at the upper and lower end portions of the speaker, aren't loose, but instead seem to be securely fastened to the supporting sheet. In the "bad area," although most of the wires aren't visibly separated from the plastic sheet, they seem to be barely holding, and are easily moved sideways. Thus, I think that I should apply acetone (with Q-tips) and then re-glue the wires in that "bad" area, which extends vertically for about five or six inches. - My question is whether I should also remove the lower portions of those wires (which seem to be adequately secured to the supporting sheet), including the loops extending almost all the way to the bottom of the speaker (the lower end portions of the loops are actually spaced upwardly about five inches from the bottom of the speaker panel). - The reason I ask this question is that, in the example shown in your archived instructions, you mentioned that typically the looped end portions seem to come loose first, and you recommended removing the end portions and re-gluing them. As far as I can tell, in my speaker they are in good shape. (Basically I suppose that I'm not 100% sure that my repairs will be better than Magneplanar's original glue job and alignment of the wires, and I hesitate to remove the entire bottom area. Also, I expected to see some "loose" wires that were visibly separated from the plastic backing sheet, but I don't.)

Suggestions?

Jim

 

RE: Clarification, question, posted on April 21, 2009 at 14:48:13
Peter Gunn
Manufacturer

Posts: 3980
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: April 16, 2001
 OK, well it sounds like you have perhaps the worst possible scenario.

I have run across panels like this - the ends oxidize and stay put but everything in between starts coming off. What makes this bad is it is not uncommon to fix the bad areas and within a few weeks even more are coming off and it simply continues and can't be prevented, and even the touch n tone doesn't really help these.

Whatever you do I would not apply 30NF on top of the old stuff, that will just be asking for trouble.

My advice is to pick at wires amid panel. If you find they come loose with very little effort on your part I honestly think your best bet is to send them back to magnepan and have them do it, as these will require a complete rebuild.

If the wires are firm in the middle, then fix the loose ends without lifting any more than you need to, which includes the very ends. Then go find touch n tone (it can be purchased online at drago supply) and use it on both panels covering them entirely and well.

Then play the hell out of these things for a good 2 weeks to make sure nothing else comes undone. If not, then you should be safe putting socks back on them.

Good luck


It's all about the music...

 

RE: Clarification, question, posted on April 21, 2009 at 16:35:09
Avocat
Audiophile

Posts: 243
Location: Southwest
Joined: June 13, 2006
 Thanks. I didn't intend to apply 3M 30NF over the OLD adhesive, but I intend to use it over the NEW Weldwood adhesive. But I thought it was 3M#77 adhesive, rather than 3M 30NF used as an overcoat, that you didn't like. Or is it just any 3M product?

I'll report back on the results. (Incidentally, "Avocat" is my designated Moniker/Username for AA. - I had been entering Jim Cate by mistake.)

Jim Cate

 

RE: Clarification, question, posted on April 21, 2009 at 19:14:45
Peter Gunn
Manufacturer

Posts: 3980
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: April 16, 2001
 They use the nf-30 / milloxane over the 3M77 because the 3M77 can't hold by itself.

The DAP can hold by itself however, so you do not need to apply anything over it.

3M had a line of family board games, many of which were eventually bought by Avalon Hill. They are the only product with 3M's name on them that I like :^ )

Oh wait, I do have a large, cast iron tape dispenser from the 50's that was made them them as well. That's it.


It's all about the music...

 

I re-wired a mid panel on my IIIas last year ..., posted on April 21, 2009 at 19:42:26
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12661
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 So I can assure you while it's a PITA ... it's not an impossible task (I had to do this because I broke a wire and gashed a hole in the mylar! :-(( ). So I would think you could save the time and expense of shipping it back to the factory.

Then at least you know it will be a permanent repair! :-))

I poured acetone onto a cloth, wiped it all over the mid-panel area until the acetone had dissoved the glue and I was able to pull off the old wire, then used more acetone to clean up the mylar until all the glue had been removed.

Then I got replacement wire and 30-NF from the Oz Maggie importer and bought some "3M-77" locally.

You will be able to get a re-wire kit from Magnepan direct - BTW, can you tell me what sort of wire the 3.6 mid-panel has? As the 3.6 is supposed to have a "QR mid", I would've thought you'd have the flat wire used for the quasi-ribbons on, say, the 1.6QR ... but I'm not sure if that is really the case. My IIIa mids use 31g aluminium wire.

Regards,

Andy

 

RE: I re-wired a mid panel on my IIIas last year ..., posted on April 21, 2009 at 20:12:54
Avocat
Audiophile

Posts: 243
Location: Southwest
Joined: June 13, 2006
 The wire used in the 3.6R mid-range segment seems to be a light copper wire. It's hard to tell what the construction is, and it may have multiple strands. - But it's not flat. I assume that they want it to be as lightweight as possible, for improved response, but that makes it hard to work with. (I want to end up with the wires in the same parallel pattern, properly aligned with the magnets. Also, one break and I have further problems.)

Jim

 

Aligning the wires properly is easy ..., posted on April 21, 2009 at 21:34:28
andyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 12661
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 Magnepan use a jig that they somehow put in place on the mylar and wind the wire round it (the Oz importer thought he had one and would've lent it to me but, in the end, he couldn't find it).

So, after spraying the "77", I started on one side at the bottom, ran the length up to the top and used a round plastic cylinder the diameter of the loop, to act as the guide to get the loop laid right. The #77 held the wires on, fine (as I was exerting some force to keep the wire taught and straight).

Then it was down again to the bottom ... and repeat. :-))

Just one point - the 3.6 may be different but my mid panel had 2 separate lengths of wire, looped ... not just one. All I can assume is that the 31g aluminium wire they used back then had a relatively high resistance so they had 2 parallel loops of 6.4 ohms ... ending up with a combined resistance of 3.2 ohms.

Then, when the wire is all installed, paint the 30-NF over the top.

The most difficult part of the whole exercise was soldering the 31g aluminium wire to the solder tabs at the base of the frame. I had to use an extremely hot iron and it took several goes before it was finally soldered. (Of course, your 3.6s may have a different fixing arrangement.)

Here's a pic:





BTW, I'm pretty sure the wire is aluminium wire - as copper wire would, I think, have too low a resistance over that length.

Good luck,

Andy

 

RE: Clarification, question, posted on April 22, 2009 at 14:56:44
Avocat
Audiophile

Posts: 243
Location: Southwest
Joined: June 13, 2006

I note that the Weldwood DAP contact cement label states that it isn't suitable for metals containing copper. The wires used in the mid-range section of the 3.6R sure look like copper.

Jim

 

RE: Clarification, question, posted on April 22, 2009 at 15:58:54
Peter Gunn
Manufacturer

Posts: 3980
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: April 16, 2001
 It's a litz coating. All magnepan wires are aluminum.


It's all about the music...

 

RE: Maggie repairs - Progress Report, posted on April 23, 2009 at 15:33:47
Avocat
Audiophile

Posts: 243
Location: Southwest
Joined: June 13, 2006
 I can now report that I have completed the disassembly, re-gluing, and re-assembly of my Maggie 3.6R. It is truly a PITA, and frankly I don't think I should have to get into this hassle. (I confess that I didn't follow ALL of Peter Gunn's recommendations, but I did use the Weldwood DAP contact cement.) So far, the speaker seems to be doing OK, although I haven't pumped up the volume on the particular, problematic piano music. - I'll let the speaker break in for a few days before cranking it up.

Thanks again for the helpful suggestions.

Jim

 

RE: A small apology, Jim ..., posted on April 24, 2009 at 14:53:22
yawg
Audiophile

Posts: 173
Location: Eindhoven
Joined: April 7, 2004
 Hi,

In my case the filter in my active sub was audible in a bad way. I had Martin Logan CLS IIz and rolled them off actively at 80 Hz because my sub has a massive amp and the CLS can't play loudly anyway. As a result I got a "sluggish" or "lagged" bass.

When I ran the sub and the CLS in parallel everything was hunky dory, only I couldn't play my music as loud as I wanted. That's why I got 3.6 Maggies in the end.

With the Maggies I run sub and bass parallel also. The difference is definitely audible otherwise something is wrong with your hearing and you don't need Maggies anyway ;-)

If you would roll them off at 40 Hz this would be less harmful as very low notes need some time to build up, they have slow "attack" so the delay caused by the filter in the sub wouldn't be as dramatic.

Anyway the best thing would be to get more powerful amps. Then not only the "bass problem" will disappear without having to use a bass filter but the rest of the musical spectrum will also benefit quite a lot IMHO.

Regards, Jörg.

 

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