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Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers

154.5.21.190
Posted on June 15, 2007 at 16:24:48
Ian L
Audiophile

Posts: 1380
Joined: July 5, 2002
 I'm not very experienced with horns but I've been trying to learn as much as I can about them lately and so today when I was asked "Have you ever heard or read anything bad about TAD 4000 drivers?" I was kind of surprised to think I haven't (price excluded of course)
. . . . .until a while later I remembered reading that somebody sold his TAD system when he heard the BMS Neos. (I think that had something to do with my decision to go with the 4592s) . . . .So to pass the question along to the more experienced among us, has anybody here heard anything in the TADs that they don't like?

 

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RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 15, 2007 at 16:51:08
Duke
Dealer

Posts: 4429
Location: Princeton, Texas
Joined: March 31, 2000
 I've owned TAD 4001 as well as BMS 4590 and 4592. I prefer the TAD.

The Beyma CP755/ND, with a 1.4 inch throat, would be my nomination for "poor man's TAD".

If I was going to find fault with the TAD, it would be over the long passageway from phase plug to throat exit. With a wide-pattern horn (which is my preference), in my experience getting the horn throat as close as possible to the phase plug, with as smooth a transition as possible, is a good idea. Also, with some types of horns, the 2" throat TAD beams a little too much in the top octave or so for my taste - so a supertweeter may be called for depending on the application. If you have to get a supertweeter anyway, spending the megabucks for the TAD is less attractive.

If you want a new pair of TAD 4000 series compression drivers, I suggest you move quickly. Pioneer has been discontinuing drivers and not replacing them with something new, which makes me think they're getting out of the prosound driver business.

Duke

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 16, 2007 at 01:15:06
Jmmlc
Audiophile

Posts: 154
Location: Paris, France
Joined: January 31, 2007
 Hello Duke,

I heard that the next generation beryllium diaphragms for TAD drivers will be built in China.

(This doesn't mean they will be bad, we know a lot of excellent manufactured products coming from China).

The TD4001 is an excellent driver, one of the really best.

BMS, Radian, Beyma doesn't play in the same league.

A quite embarassing problem, but fortunately rare enough, when buying a used TD4001 from a pro is that it appears sometime some ageing of the suspension. On the TD4001 suspension forms a single part with the diaphragm. Beryllium is a very hard and fragile metal and its use as suspension material is questionable. The replacement diaphragm from TAD is very expensive too. This probably explains why sometimes TD4001 diaphragms are replaced with Radian diaphragms.

Best regards from Paris,

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 16, 2007 at 02:37:13
cvandec
Audiophile

Posts: 35
Location: Milano
Joined: January 31, 2003
 Duke, I am in full agreement with you preferences and comments, but if you use the TD-4002 without the front-piece (aka TD-4002Z), you get a 1.5" throat driver with the phase plug right at the throat. Mounting holes are nearly compatible with Altec or EV 1.4" horns (not exactly, a small bit of filing may be needed).

Christian

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 16, 2007 at 03:17:34
angeloitacare
Dealer

Posts: 539
Location: aracaju, brazil
Joined: September 19, 2006
 Hello Jean Michel

did you have the oportunity to compare the TAD4001 with the Radian 950pb ?

Vincent Brient had bouth of them , and preferes the Radian:

http://vincent.brient.free.fr/pav_ronds.htm

He wrote me following :

Oui je recommande la Radian 950. Elle est lineaire et moins agressive que les autres drivers comme TAD ou JBL. On peut meme l'utiliser jusqu'a 300Hz dans un grand pavillon. Elle a du corps alors que les autres peuvent etre maigres ou metalliques. J'ai eu des JBL et des TAD 4001 et 2001 mais je les ai revendues pour utiliser la Radian 950.

free translated : The Radian 950 is more linear and less agressive than the TAD's and JBL's. It can be used till 300hz in a big horn. It has more " body " , the others sound more metallic and thin. I had the TAD 4001 and 2001, but i solt them, and using the Radian 950.

Angelo

 

I see you like 18sound, posted on June 16, 2007 at 10:37:04
Russ57
Audiophile

Posts: 3754
Location: South Florida
Joined: November 16, 2001
 Have you tried any of their compression drivers or horns? If so how do you think they compare?


Russ

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 16, 2007 at 10:48:21
Paul W


 
Duke,
Would you go into a bit of detail regarding your preference for the TAD & Beyma over the BMS 4590 & 4592? Have you heard any of the 18 Sound 1.4"...comments?
Thanks,
Paul

 

no, i have not, posted on June 16, 2007 at 10:51:07
angeloitacare
Dealer

Posts: 539
Location: aracaju, brazil
Joined: September 19, 2006
 but the spec's of this 8" er look quit amazing.

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 17, 2007 at 14:32:36
Hornloco
Audiophile

Posts: 26
Location: Sunny Lake Geneva
Joined: October 22, 2004
 I have been using TAD-4001 drivers on horns of my own making with a Sonic Fronteer 9W 300B SET amplifier for several years. I have not heard better compressors so-far : as Jean-Michel Le Cleach says "they are in a class by themselves" !

Rene Simond
Montreux
Switzerland

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 18, 2007 at 09:00:58
Jmmlc
Audiophile

Posts: 154
Location: Paris, France
Joined: January 31, 2007
 Hello Angelo,

I heard both the TAD TD4001 and the Radian 950. They sound different.

The TD4001 is far more linear (both at measurement and listening) and the sound is very dependent on the horn (perceived equilibrium can be a bit rising or peaky with some horns).

For my own I prefer a round horn like Marco's horn (Musique Concrete), as the one pictured by Ken Kessler in page 11 in the July issue of "Hi-Fi News" to the TH4001 horn.

Also using an amplifier operating in current (or an amplifier with a large output impedance) is benefitial to the sound of the TD4001 which one can sound a bit dry and metallic with some amplifers, specially with transistors amplifiers.

The Radian 950 possess a slowly decreasing equilibrium. The harshness in the high frequencies often heard on 2 inches drivers is absent with this driver and replaced by an acceptable colouration (difficult to describe but less metallic). Also this decreasing perceived frequency response is favored by audiophile who listen mainly to voice. Finally due to this slowly decreasing response (which ones is quite similar to the often recommended frequency response curve in small auditoriums), the Radian seems easier to match with the low frequency loudpeaker .

Best regards from Paris,

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 18, 2007 at 09:37:15
angeloitacare
Dealer

Posts: 539
Location: aracaju, brazil
Joined: September 19, 2006
 thanks, Jean Michel

your answers are always very enlightening. What tweeter would you recommend to use with the Radian 950pb ? I heard read good things abought ribbons, like raal, but efficiency does not match. Also, i am not shure if ribbons cobine better than compression tweeters. The Fostex are still my favorite.

rds Angelo

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 19, 2007 at 00:32:51
Jmmlc
Audiophile

Posts: 154
Location: Paris, France
Joined: January 31, 2007
 Hello,

Ribbons are excellent but in a different application. Most of them operate as dipoles and are difficult to match with other ways using compression drivers + horns due to a very different kind of room interaction.

Classical tweeters used by audiophiles like Fostex 925, JBL 2405, Beyma CP21 will give classical results ( = mean results). Tweeters like Goto, Ale, Onken, TAD are far better sounding but expensive.

One of the best solution IMHO is to use a small radial horn with a high acoustic Fc (over 1200Hz) to load a TAD TD2001 driver (over the electrical cut-off you need, whatever the frequency). This is the solution often used by Yuichi Arai (with square horns)

http://members.aol.com/araiyuichi

http://members.aol.com/araiyuichi/Craft/Photo/A2000.jpg

or by Marco Henry with round horns

http://www.musique-concrete.com/tarifs/brutivoire.jpg

(Marco proposes for such applications a small horn having an acoustic
of 1450Hz and a larger one havin an acoustical cut-off of 870Hz)

Best regards,

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 19, 2007 at 09:22:16
angeloitacare
Dealer

Posts: 539
Location: aracaju, brazil
Joined: September 19, 2006
 Jean Michel

it seems the TAD's are your favorite's. I've spoken to Michael, witch is selling his Goto drivers at ebay :

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?ht=1&from=R4&satitle=goto&sacat=293%26catref%3DC6

he told me a alternative to all the highest goto drivers would be :

" if i was you i will go for goto bl5880 lower thats the king

and use a tad 2001 from 1khz and op

that will be very close ( he referes to goto BL188 and BL3880 )to a mutch lower price "

what i am wondering, if it can match the drivers with smaller diaphragm diameter in the highest frequencies in performance. Theoretically, a dedicated tweeter should be better, no ?

have you gone forward with your project to make a mid-bass horn ?
any recomendations ? It's interesting that Goto uses a driver with a relative small diaphragm diameter, to cover the 200hz to 1khz frequency range, with 5,8cm diameter. Would be a 4" not better ?

rds Angelo



 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 19, 2007 at 09:42:07
Jmmlc
Audiophile

Posts: 154
Location: Paris, France
Joined: January 31, 2007

Angelo,

The problem with most compression tweeters is that their horn is too small and they use often a lot of diffraction. Also most of them should be considered as supertweeters and crossed over 12kHz. If you really want to have a better coverage of the high mids,while going up to 22kHz IMHO its is better to use a compression driver like the TD2001 mounted on a small axial horn.

I have several low-mid horn project, one for my apartment in paris), the other one for my father's home in Brittany. For the first one, I bought a pair of Western Electric horns reference WE22A. I'll use them most probably with a pair of LMT drivers (similar to WE555 but with an alnico magnet in place of the field coil...).

For the second project I plan to build a horn using my method. Recently I developped the method to calculate horns having a linear evolution of the ratio width/height along the axis. But also may be I'll build a large round horn like Martin Seddon's 160Hz horn (look at http://www.azurahorn.com/azurahorn_horns.html )
or Marco Henry's new 220Hz horn, you can see at:
http://www.musique-concrete.com/exemples/Vincent_J222.jpg

Best regards from Paris,

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h





 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 19, 2007 at 10:03:47
angeloitacare
Dealer

Posts: 539
Location: aracaju, brazil
Joined: September 19, 2006
 Jean Michel

at my gallery :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/audiovoice_hornloudspeakers/page2/

someone uses also a we15a horn+555w. French audiophiles seem to like this solution. However, it demands a lot of space.

rds Angelo

 

RE: Polling people who've heard TAD 4000 series drivers, posted on June 21, 2007 at 06:00:08
el`Ol
Audiophile

Posts: 137
Location: Bavarian Forest
Joined: May 1, 2006
 I ask myself how the comparison would be between a TAD and a Radian 850, which, according to the company`s website doesn`t have the "audiophile" decline, but most audiophiles will never buy a ceramic magnet driver for that price.

 

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