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How too get best SQ from Puppy Linux distro's

82.156.128.160
Posted on October 1, 2012 at 03:54:04
hfavandepas
 Hi all,

Reading posts form inmates like Wlowes, Douwe01NL on there use of Puppy linux made me curious too hear with my own ears what sound quality can be achieved when using a Puppy linux distro.

I know that (super) fine tuning depends on what specifiek hardware and what specific puppy distro is used. But I think that a non-specific thread on ‘How too get best SQ from Puppy Linux’ can be very helpfull and usefull for newbie’s like me.

It’s is no pleasure at all reading the new-bie section on the Linux puppy forum. No matter how helpfull these Puppy Linux guys ar, and no matter how patient and willing they are in trying too help newbie’s, 90% is not help full too me at all
Still much too much knowledge and insight is needed too understand what is written the newbie section

What I need is: ‘how too get best SQ from Puppy Linux for dummy’s’.
So let’s start. Here’s what I encountered when I wanted too start using Puppy Linux on my cMP-setup. Read the ‘cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player’-thread for info on the cMP hardware setup.

* Having no CD/DVD drive in my setup: how too boot from those Puppy Iso’s ?
Alternatively one can boot Puppy Linux from a USB-stick.
I used the Lili USB creator for creating a bootable USB-stick.
Download here: http://www.linuxliveusb.com/
Easy too use. Not only for geeks.
I had no trouble understanding and using it.

* Booting a Puppy Linux from an USB stick created with Lili USB creator.
Check in your bios if USB-HDD is enabled. If not enabled your bios will not recognize the USB stick as an HDD (Hard Disk Drive)
At startup you have too instruct the bios too boot from USB.
On my Gigabyte mobo I have too press F12 for that.
The bios then shows me a boot menu where I can choose too boot from the USB stick.
Puppy linux boots and loads fast.
Within half a minute Puppy Linux distro’s are ready for use.

* Making an ‘audiophile’ ad-on PCI/USB/Firewire soundcard work.
I booted several Puppy Linux distro’s on all computers in my house.
My Desktop, my Dell Labtop, my cMP-setup and my Atom GA-D525TUD setup.
No problems at all. All hardware was recognized correctly and worked out of the box.
Screens and resolutions, network Interfaces and WiFi, on-board soundcards, etc.
Whow what a joy.
Well that is…..
Except for (trying too) make your audiophile PCI/usb/firewire soundcard work.
Fasten your seatbelt and mentally prepare for being ‘time-warped’ back into the seventyish-eighties.

* Of several Puppy distro’s I tried booting on my cMP-hardware from USB, the Slacko Puppy distro turned out to be least frustrating.
I clicked: the setup icon on the desktop.
Pupcontrol opened
I clicked the Hardware tab and selected ‘Sound setup’
I was greeted with a pop-up screen in where I could chose from 2 wizards.
‘Single card’ and ‘Multicard’.
Since I have only one Esi Juli@ card installed
(digital part of the ESI Juli@ only, with onboard sound disabled in bios)
I choose: ‘Single card’
Pfffff stupid… Esi Juli@ is a: ‘Multicard’.
(how should I have known that??)
When I chose ‘Multicard’, I could again chose from two card options.
- card 0: juli [ESI Juli@], device 0: ICE1724 [ICE1724]
- card 0: juli [ESI Juli@], device 1: ICE1724 IEC958 [ICE1724 IEC958]
Now what ???
After some trail and error, several reboots, etc etc, 90 minutes later, Puppy Slacko was able too Bark some sound at me with help of the ALSA-wizard through the ESI Julia digital part (optical SP/dif out).

* Music playback application on my cMP hardware.
Having Slacko puppy installed and barking at me, I choose Pmusic too play some music.
No sound.
Under ‘Preferences’ I checked what soundcard Pmusic used as output.
Pmusic used soundcard: ‘auto’.
But fortunately I could also chose from:
- card 0: juli [ESI Juli@], device 0: ICE1724 [ICE1724]
- card 0: juli [ESI Juli@], device 1: ICE1724 IEC958 [ICE1724 IEC958]
I choose: device 1 and viola I heard music coming from my K+H O300’s

* other Linux Distro’s I tried this weekend on my cMP steup:
I only could get sound from Slacko Puppy.
Other Puppy distro’s I tried had no ALSA wizards.
Some had only DOS-like ALSA-wizards, which I did not understand.
Some had missing packages which I did not manage too install.
Etc, etc.
As a newbie I stranded in this user unfriendly Linux swamp and drowned.

MPDPUP has good wizards but I failed installing it on my cMP hardware because MPDPUP it doesn’t handle USB keyboard/mouse input.
But I have no PS/2 keyboard and mouse any longer.
Anno 2012 it doesn't handle USB Keyboard/Mouse.
:-(
EDIT: MPDPUP does handle (wireless) keyboard/mouse input.
My older Logitec Cordless Desktop EX110 keyboard/mouse combination did not work.
However this weekend I tried with a newer Logitec Wireless Combo MK260 and everything worked well.
So probably the old Logitec Cordless Desktop EX110 keyboard/mouse combo doesn’t fully comply with USB standards or something like that.

* Distro's I also tried on my Dell Labtop with Emu0404 USB as digital S/Pdif interface.
I managed too get sound from Slacko Puppy, MPDPUP and Ubuntu 12.04.1 live through my Dell Labtop -> EMU0404 USB -> RCA 75 Ohm video-coax-cable digital-out -> Lavery Black DA10 ->


* First impressions Sound Quality.
-> Ubuntu 12.04.1 live + HQplayer
Hardware: Dell Labtop -> EMU0404 USB -> RCA 75 Ohm coax video cable digital-out -> Lavry Black DA10
Strengths: much details, open ‘airy’ soundstage, precise.
All in all: very pleasant too listen too.
Weaknesess: I hear still some kind of distortion, a little blurred.
But I think this is because of my low-quality chain setup: Dell Labtop -> EMU0404 USB -> RCA digital-out through 75 ohm video-coax-cable-> Lavry Black DA10.
I could not get it work on my cMP setup yet, but I guess on quality hardware, HQplayer is a real good player.

-> Slacko Puppy + Pmusic
Hardware: cMP -> ESI Juli@ digital part -> Van den Hul Optocoupler -> Lavry Black DA 10
Strengths: open ‘airy’ soundstage, detailed and open mids, pleasant on the ear, but lacks audiophile quality.
Weaknesses: Bass and highs: not precise, not focussed, somewhat blurred.


Coming from Windows and being a Linux newbie I was able too get sound with Slacko Puppy, MPDPUP and Ubuntu Live. In these distro’s things like: ‘System setup’, ‘Sound setup’ ect worked much the same as I’m used to in windows.

All in all my first impression is:

- (Puppy) Linux also needs extra tuning too get real good high Sound Quality.

- Just like in windows: Linux music players also have there own sound quality
Gnome player has no special quality’s too my ears. It just plays music from a computer.
Pmusic sounds better but not as good as Foobar in windows
Although I could not listen too HQplayer through good quality hardware, my first impressions of HQplayer on Linux is really good.
I would like too hear HQplayer on an ‘audio-fine-tuned’ Puppy Linux distro through high quality hard ware.

Future To Do List:
* Getting my Atom GA-D525TUD up and running ASAP.
I already mounted it in a Silverstone ML03 HTPC-casing but I still have too construct ferrite/cap filters on the P4 and P24 output.
See Linear Technolgie Application Note 101: ‘Minimizing Switching Regulator Residue in Linear Regulator Outputs’ how too filter spikes and noise.
http://cds.linear.com/docs/Application%20Note/an101f.pdf

* Dual boot XP and Puppy on GA-D525TUD from little 8 GB SSD .
I want too do this because I want an easy way too compare SQ between XP and Puppy on EXACTLY to same hardware. I already got this tutorial from the Puppy Forum, which looks easy.

Download grub4dos from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/grub4dos/files/GRUB4DOS/grub4dos%200.4.4/grub4dos-0.4.4.zip/download

Open grub4dos-0.4.4.zip and extract these 2 files to C:\ grldr and menu.lst

Add this line to the end of file C:\boot.ini :
C:\grldr="show grub menu"

Download the puppy ISO you want (for example wary 5.2.2)
Create a new folder in C: called for instance Wary-5.2.2
Extract all files from Wary 5.2.2 ISO to C:\Wary-5.2.2\

Modify file C:\menu.lst to this :
default 0
color cyan/blue white/blue
timeout 5

title Wary version 5.2.2
kernel (hd0,0)/Wary-5.2.2/vmlinuz
initrd (hd0,0)/Wary-5.2.2/initrd.gz

Reboot, you will have the choice between XP and grub menu.

* Getting HQPlayer up and running on a Puppy Distro.
On my cMP hardware and/or Atom GA-D525TUD MoBo.

* Getting too know ‘if’ and ‘how’ MPDPUP is fine-tuned for audio.

* Basic learning how too fine tune Linux for audio.
See if i can finally will be able too understand and implement what is written here:
http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=system_configuration

* Experiment with settings Wlowes, Douweo1NL and others recommend.

* Getting too know various audio servers on linux.
- JACK Audio Connection Kit (QjackCtl)
- ALSA
- Pulse
Etc.


Soo much too this coming winter.

As always: tips, suggestions, corrections, ect, ect are very much welcomed.

Mark

 

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RE: How too get best SQ from Puppy Linux distro's, posted on October 12, 2012 at 08:47:37
andy222
Audiophile

Posts: 17
Joined: February 3, 2012
 I’m reading your mpdPup posts with great interest, as I suspect are quite a lot of folks who are fascinated by the prospect of something better than they currently have but who share my fear of Linux. One of the big problems for those of us who’s entire computer life has been spent with Windows is that Linux seems like something from another planet. I’ve played with various distros and I’ve browsed some of the Linux forums, but I still feel like I’m drowning. It’s easy to slip back to the familiar comfort of Windows. The Linux forums, obviously enough, are written in Linux jargon and anyone who doesn’t understand it is at a serious disadvantage. Time is short for most of us and it’s not always possible to devote the attention that’s needed to master something new.

Maybe you have the time and the inclination to post some kind of easy tutorial for Windows users to show us how to get started. Having a helping hand from someone who is already a good way up the learning curve would be very nice.

 

running MPDPUP on cMP hardware is easy for newbies. Do try!., posted on October 12, 2012 at 16:26:34
hfavandepas
 Hi Andy222,

I agree with you on Linux.
When in collage, I learned DOS. Linux feels to me like DOS.
(for the young ones who don’t know what DOS is, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS )
Being used too a graphical interface and clicking a mouse, it’s very hard too back too a situation with where there’s only a keyboard and a prompt blinking at you.

I disagree with the time-shortage argument. The cMP + cPlay project also did costs me a lot of time and energy but it was exiting and challenging. I wanted too spend time on Cics project because it’s was fun too do. Most people do have some basic windows kills and knowlegde which is just enough too realize some easy succes which motivates too go on and learn more.

With Linux this is much more difficult. As a newbie I lack basic knowledge, so it’s hard too realize an early success which could motivate me too go on.

BUT if you have a cMP setup one is lucky. It’s easy too test drive ‘Music Player Daemon Puppy’ on cMP hardware. The developer of MPDPUP used an ESI Juli@ soundcard when developing MPDPUP
(I red that on his MPDPUP-forum-pages). So inmates with cMP hardware are lucky. When using the wizard for configuration and setup of MPDPUP everything goes well. No hiccups what so ever.

When first tryinh too use MPDPUP on my cMP hardware I Immediately ran into trouble on first boot. I used some older Logitec Cordless USB-PS/2 Keyboard/mouse combination . and I blamed MPDPUP (linux) for not being able too work with USB keyboard and mouse. But that turned out too be false.
When I use a newer Logitec Wireless USB Keyboard/mouse everything works okay.

When using a proper USB Keyboard/mouse setting up MPDPUP on cMP hardware turned out be very easy.

On cMP hardware you can really be up and running with these 3 very simple steps.
Absolutely no LINUX knowledge is needed.

1. Transfer the MPDPUP-iso you downloaded onto an USB stick with LiLi USB Creator
2. Boot MPDPUP from USB on your ‘cMP-setup’
3. Walk through the wizard (which starts automatically on first boot) too configure MPD

Once the MPDPUP-server is configured succesfully op and running, one can play music with the build inn and very simple music player.
The graphfical interface dus not start by default.
Too start the graphfical interface, type 'startx' at the prompt.
You now can use your mouse to start the simple buildinn player.

Right out off the box MPDPUP sounds intriguing and interesting. You can hear the potential quality allmost immidiately. The soundstage opens up and broadens very much and mids reveal much (!) more details without being ‘in your face’ or squawky. But also some flaws can be heard immidiately. Highs are somewhat brittle and unfocussed. And also bass is not focussed.

But with the recommended settings which WLowes posted in this thread, these flaws in sound quality immediately almost disappear. With Wlowes settings: sound quality of MPDPUP becomes really, very good (although very different from the XP+cMP+cPlay).
However for implementing Wlowes-settings, one does need some (very basic!) Linux knowlegde and some very basic linux skills.
You need too be able too open a configuration-file inside linux and edit that file with a tekst editor.
Linux people do this all the time, but being a newbie something simple as editing a tekst-file inside the operating-system is difficult.

But do try too get MPDPUP running from USB-stick on your cMP hardware.
Just too have a listen and judge the sound quality coming from MPDPUP yourself.
I now see why Wlowes, Douwe020NL and other ‘MPDPUP inmates’ are enthusiast MPDPUP users.

Mark

 

RE: running MPDPUP on cMP hardware is easy for newbies. Do try!., posted on November 25, 2012 at 00:32:54
van.alles@kpnplanet.nl
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Joined: September 30, 2012
 Hello hfavandepas

I’ve red Your mpdPup post with great interest.
So I tried to make a bootable USB with Lili USB creator from http://www.linuxliveusb.com/ .
AVG warns there is a Trojan horse within the download.
Is this known?
Did some else get a warning?

Can this warning be ignored?

Kind regards.
Jeroen.

 

I consider it to be a false positive, posted on November 25, 2012 at 11:17:36
hfavandepas
 Hi Jeroen,

I also use AVG and I also had this warning 2 weeks ago on a XP machine.
But I haven got this warning on other machines using WIN 7 last year (also using AVG).
So I ignored it as being a false positive.

Mark

 

RE: running MPDPUP on cMP hardware is easy for newbies. Do try!., posted on October 13, 2012 at 06:49:44
andy222
Audiophile

Posts: 17
Joined: February 3, 2012
 Many thanks for the start-up advice. I gave it a try and spent a couple of hours playing , but sadly I got no further than I did the last time I tried mpdPuppy. Just the initial setup stage is an exercise in mystery and frustration for me . I’m obviously too stupid to ever get to grips with the cryptic workings of Linux. I found cMP/cPlay very fast and easy to setup by comparison, so I guess that I’m destined to be the eternal Windows user. My loss, I’m certain.

 

At what point do you get stuck?, posted on October 13, 2012 at 07:01:54
hfavandepas
 Hi Andy222,

“spent a couple of hours playing”.
I’m not a native englisch speaker.
Do you mean:
1. you played music for a couple of hours?
or do you mean:
2. I tried setting it up and failed (too play music)?

If 2.
At what point do you get stuck?

Mark

 

RE: At what point do you get stuck?, posted on October 13, 2012 at 08:40:06
andy222
Audiophile

Posts: 17
Joined: February 3, 2012
 It’s kind of you to take an interest in my failure. I appreciate it.

My failure was with the setup. I could not actually get to the point of playing music. My music files are stored on a hard drive on my cMP/cPlay computer (three hard drives, to be precise, because there are rather a lot of them). The files are .wav images with associated cuesheets and are stored in an Artist> Album folder tree. In the initial setup for mpdPup I selected local storage for audio files. I was then able to see my three storage drives, but I was not able to see any of the folders they contain. Simply selecting one of the discs brought up a dialogue telling me that I had not selected a folder.

I tried terminating the setup procedure and opening the music player with the thought that I might be able to make a music file selection from there. All that I could achieve, however, was a blank screen.

Another slight oddity is in the soundcard selection dialogue. I am presented with two different locations for my Juli@ card. I’m sure that a process of trial and elimination would allow me to select the correct location if only I could locate my music files, but I’m rather puzzled by this.

 

testdrive from localy stored music file looks very buggy. lets first ask others, posted on October 13, 2012 at 11:36:57
hfavandepas
 Hi Andy222,

I’m using a NAS and than the buildinn player works like it schould work.
One can than play muziek with the simple buildinn player.

But when i tried playing muziek which is stored on local harddisks, I discovered that only the first harddisk is mounted by default. Other local harddisk and USB stick first have too be mounted by hand before they show up in the wizard.
(I just I discovered this when anticipating your next question)

Internal disks can mounted by hand, through clicking on the harddisk iccon.
Once these disks are mounted by hand, than they show up in the wizard in this directory:
/mnt/yourdisk/yourdirectories.

After the pad too the music directories is stored by the wizard, and these settings are saved, than it gets buggy.
When starting the buildinn player by clicking on the bleu play-button, the player only starts for a split second and than terminates.

However if I select music directories on my NAS, the buildinn player works as expected.
So I expect a bug here.
On the MPDPUP forum I also saw other users complaining about this too.

So first lets ask other inmates like Wlowes or the developer if this could be a bug.
And if not, what is the correct way to test-drive MPDPUP on music-files stored on local harddisks.

Mark

 

let me check first: where you able too play a test sound?, posted on October 13, 2012 at 09:28:48
hfavandepas
 Hi Andy222,

Well at least you managed too make your way into the MPD Setup wizard.

From now on I assume you use cMP hardware Gigabyte MoBo and the ESI Juli@ digital part (S/Pdif out).

I also would suggest you just follow the wizard as intended and walk through the wizard step by step from the beginning (not randomly)
So Sound -> Storage -> system -> LCDremote -> clients -> quit.
If you use the wizard it will by default lead you by default in this order.

The wizard starts with setting up the ‘sound’.
Under ‘sound’ in the first step the wizard will show you what soundcard(s) it has detected.
If you use the ESI-Juli@ digital part you will presented this choice:
card 0: juli [ESI Juli@], device 0: ICE1724 [ICE1724]
card 0: juli [ESI Juli@], device 1: ICE1724 IEC958 [ICE1724 IEC958]

After you have chosen one of these the cards, the wizard wil continue and ask:
“Do you want too test your sounddevice?
I you click ‘Yes’ a test sound is played (or not)

If you do not hear any sound at this point, I see no point in continuing the wizard.
If you didn’t not hear any sound at this point, there is a ‘Retry’-button which will return you too the previous screen too select other sound options on ‘card 0’ too test.

Dit you hear any sound?

If ‘Yes’ than I’ll next guide you through the storage setup in a next post.
I must agree that the syntax needed too correctly spell out the music locations is rigid.
But please do confirm first too me if you heard a test sound.

Mark

 

RE: let me check first: where you able too play a test sound?, posted on October 13, 2012 at 11:47:03
andy222
Audiophile

Posts: 17
Joined: February 3, 2012
 Yes, you are correct about my hardware. It’s pretty standard cMP. Gigabyte GA-31 + ESI Juli@ digital part + S/Pdif out.

No problem with the sound section of mpdPup. If I choose card 0: juli [ESI Juli@], device 1: ICE1724 IEC958 [ICE1724 IEC958] I get sound when I test the card.

Any help with the storage setup will be much appreciated because it is here that things start to go wrong for me.

 

mpd.conf settings, posted on October 1, 2012 at 05:45:50
wlowes
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: Toronto
Joined: April 18, 2009
 There has been some duscussion of settings for optimum sound on the mpdpup site. I repost a couple of settings that bring out the best. I use the following MPD settings:

audio_buffer_size "51200"
buffer_before_play "100%"

Douwe is using 90m audio_buffer with 10% before play. I prefer to fully process it prior to audio play.

And...

audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "WaveIO"
period_time "8192"
fragment_size "4096"
device "hw:1,0"
buffer_time "131072"
mixer_type "none"
mixer_device "disabled"
auto_resample "no"
auto_format "no"
}

And equally important tune USB processing using nrpacks=20:
To set as default, I added the line:
options snd-usb-audio nrpacks=20
to the end of the file alsa-base.conf
It is found in /etc/modprobe.d

Again there is lots of discussion on mpdpup site. The mpdpup author is building these settings in to the next distro as parameters.

Last, I find DIY usb cable a good option. I build one as short as possible using teflon Cat5 twisted pair. I do not connect the +5v power line. Tried shielded vs exposed, and exposed was better.

Enjoy

 

RE: I hope a Puppy Linux for dummy's thread will emerge., posted on October 2, 2012 at 08:34:22
hfavandepas
 Hi Walter,

Just too get a first impression I got mpdpup up and running from USB-stick this weekend on my Dell Studio notebook connected too an old EMU0404 USB DAC that I still have lying around collecting dust. (Dell Studio notebook -> USB EMU0404 -> S/Pdif RCA 75ohm cheap video coax kabel -> Lavry Black DA10 -> K+H O300 active speakers.)

Getting the mpdpup iso on an bootable USB stick with Lili USB creator was simple and also the mpdpup wizards are simple and clear. I had no problems getting a test sound from the mpdpup-setup.

I had great trouble though finding the right syntax for pointing too the music-files on my NAS. But finally I found out how too type the needed info in a syntax that the mpdpup-wizard would accept.

Get a test-sound from the setup was easy but playing a music-file was another thing. I do understand the client-server concept. But I didn’t know what client too chose for playing music. The choice is overwhelming. I was unfamiliar with al the clients presented in the list.

So I decided too try the build-in simple music player which comes with mpdpup. But it notoriously refused too start-up. It flashed a white pop-up-screen for a split second and than disappeared. I spend much time on finding out why this build-in player would not start. But after a reboot the build-in player suddenly did work and I was able too play music.

As with other (puppy) Linux installs I tried this weekend I immediately recognized the ‘Linux’-house sound. All (puppy) Linux setups I tried this weekend had the same sonic fingerprint.
Mids are very open and detailed. Every minute detail in music, instruments and voice can be heard.
Imaging and soundstage is also very good.
I think the mids in Linux are potentially (!) much better than in my cMP+cPlay+XP setup.
Bass and highs sound somewhat ‘shut in’, hazed, blurred. Like if my speakers are playing from under a thick, down filled duvet or thick wollen blanket.

Since I don’t have a PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse any longer I can’t use my logitech USB keyboard/mouse combination too setup mpdpup on my cMP hardware. It is really annoying that mpdpup had no build-inn support for an USB-keyboard/mouse.

May be I can remote control the mpdpup-setup process through LAN from another computer. But I have not found out yet if this is possible and how too do it.

Today I managed too dual-boot my cMP hardware between XP and puppy precise 5.3.95.
This is an Ubuntu based puppy distro on which I can easy install HQplayer. HQplayer need extra qt4libs (or something), but fortunately missing package managent on Ubuntu based puppy’s is very easy.

Without any tuning, Puppy Precise 5.3.95. + HQplayer sounded very good on my cMP hardware.

Very pleasant too listen too. Mids are better than on my cMP-XP setup, but the above mentioned ‘linux sonic fingerprint’ is still there and is a show stopper for me.
I’m now trying to install a vnc-server in Puppy Precise 5.3.95 so that I can disable USB and run it headless just like I run my cMP-XP.

But the realvnc server in Puppy keeps binding too 127.0.0.1. So I’m stuck again.

When I have finisched my ferrite/cap filters on the P4 and P24 powerlines to the ATOM GA-D525TUD Mobo I’will give mpdpup another try.

Meanwhile I try too find out if and how your buffer and timing tweaks can be applied too Puppy Precise 5.3.95.

Mark

 

RE: I hope a Puppy Linux for dummy's thread will emerge., posted on October 2, 2012 at 10:08:58
wlowes
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: Toronto
Joined: April 18, 2009
 hfavandepas
I understand your pain, I went thru this as well. I will take some time later today to provide some help to guide you through this first period. At some point it becomes clear and it is then easy enough to do a web search for details. No one knows it all.
I too got my feet wet with Linux on an old laptop. In my case I landed on Lubuntu which is a full function Windows replacement that remains my preferred laptop for surfing at home.

I found a Linux primer that was very useful to explain the essential basics. You must understand the file structure and how to launch an xterm and get into command line. Download this guide to use a basic reference.
tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/intro-linux.pdf

I had a similar impression of the sonic fingerprint. Based on my CMP experience, my goal was always to get to a minimum client server config with minimal hardware on the music server. This for me meant a headless Alix board running nothing but MPD (mpdpup is the OS/tried VoyageMPD and got lost). The music is on a NAS, and my current client is an old laptop running GMPC. It works well. If I had an Iphone or Android that would be my client. Getting off the laptop and onto this client server set up took me most of the way. These little tweaks to settings finished it for me. The Alix is now an appliance and I don't think about it other than to give it power when I want music or turn it off when done! Others have reported improved sound with an Atom over the Alix so you are on the right track.

MPDPUP expects to be headless. The Alix does not even have a video chip. When I need to get into it I use another laptop running Putty.

To make the buffer changes, you need to get into command line, navigate the file structure to find MPD.CONF. In mpdpup, there is an editor called NANO that is relatively easy to use. It could be useful to go through the setup instructions on the VoyageMPD site just to get a sense for where things are in linux wrt the network commands and the editing of mpd.conf. I would leave nrpacks for when you are feeling really comfortable getting around.

 

I have mdppup installed (dual boot with XP) on cMP hardware. But mpd does not open port 6600 (yet), posted on October 3, 2012 at 03:21:47
hfavandepas
 Hi Walter,

On my Dell labtop with core I3 processor I also run LUbuntu for almost a year now. Despite the (very) ugly bleu looks and the childish play-mobile style icons (only Linux Mint looks reasonably good), I decided too keep using LUbuntu on my laptop. LUbuntu runs much smoother and faster than Windows 7.

Thank you for the newbe introduction and beginners course. I already started reading. (tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/intro-linux.pdf)

You wrote: “I had a similar impression of the sonic fingerprint.”
This is very interesting. I wonder what other inmates hear and how they describe the sound coming from a standard ‘Linux’ setup.

I've managed too install MPDPUP (nicely dual booting with XP) and (finaly) configured mpdpup on my cMP hardware with only the use of a PS/2 keyboard (which I managed dug up in a pile off old computer stuff in my garage) and without the use of a mouse.
Again I did not ran into any trouble using the wizard too setup sound, network card + static IP, NAS connection and music libray.
This time on the cMP hardware the test-sound file (some birds singing in the forest) sounded very good ! Much better than I heard it this weekend coming from my test setup via: Labtop -> emu0404 -> rca S/Pdif out -> Lavry Black DA10.

After reboot it I could read:
Music Libray mounted, starting MPD

However I was unable too connect too the MPD server through LAN from my windows 7 desktop (firewall disabled) with Gnome Music Player Client.

A LAN scan with LANgard network scanner showed that there was a linux computer running (new-host-5.home) on my LAN with only two ports opend (port 20 and 80).
So MPD did not open port 6600 as it is supposed too do.

When running and configuring MPDpup from USB stick on my labtop I got the same situation. Using the setup wizard is easy. I again got a test-sound and I can play music from NAS using the simple build inn NCMPC++ music player. But unfortunately LANgard tels me again there is a Linux computer running on my labtop but it again only has opened ports 20 and 80. So again MPD is not running as is should be with port 6600 open to communicate with the Gnome Music Player Client (GMPC) on my windows 7 desktop.

Checking the MDP wiki I THINK this causes the problem:
After installation, MPD won't work until you tell it where the media files are. You do that by changing the ~/.mpdconf file (for individual users) or /etc/mpd.conf for system-wide MPD. You may want to start with this:
port "6600"
music_directory "~/music"
playlist_directory "~/.mpd/playlists"
db_file "~/.mpd/mpd.db"
log_file "~/.mpd/mpd.log"
You will need to create the directories if they do not already exist, e.g.:
mkdir -p ~/.mpd/playlists
For those using linux, if you have a samba server with all your music, say that its share name is ALBUMS, and you mount it locally as /mnt/albums. Then have your db_file option to point at such place, i.e. /mnt/albums. This way, when you don't have the ALBUMS share mounted on your computer you will have your mpddb file with LOCAL files (note that the mount destination should be ~/music as well), whereas when you have it mounted you will have your mpddb file with all your music. Note that this will not require creating mpddb files each and every time (just need to run /etc/init.d/mpd restart)

My first reaction here is: the wizard should have taken care of this.
At least the wizard suggests that does when it asks where my music-library is located. I also can see my NAS music directory’s have been mounted in /mnt/music. So the wizard did some part of the job.

I probably better start reading the intro-linux manual now you pointed at.
I have too learn how to open the mpdconf file.

I will post my findings when I managed too do that.

Thankx again for your help and guidance.
Hope other inmates benefit from this as well.
The test sound (birds singing in forest) on my cMP hardware sounded really, really good !! So I’m very eager too get real music from the cMP hardware through mpdpup.

Mark

 

RE: I have mdppup installed (dual boot with XP) on cMP hardware. But mpd does not open port 6600 (yet), posted on October 3, 2012 at 07:58:50
wlowes
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: Toronto
Joined: April 18, 2009
 Great progress! 2 quick suggestions. Post these questions to the MPDPUP
thread. Ildose, the author is unbelieveably helpful and knows it well.

If I can recall, you should be able to simply put some .wav files on a usb stick and boot up. mpd will find the tunes and you can get a sense of what this will produce. your CMP rig will likely be similar to my Alix. Both are minimal HWD with great power supply. You will be pleasently surprised at the sound.
While I found CMP (with full slimming) very musical, it lacked the details I get with mpd on the Alix. Kind of like I was missing the low order few bits. (12 bit resolution instead of 16bit) Hard to describe, but I recently accidently turned off the DEM circuit on my tda1541a. Same effect. Great sound but just the high points.

Look forward to your impressions when you get it to play.

 

When booting from USB stick everything works fine !, posted on October 3, 2012 at 14:17:35
hfavandepas
 Hi Walter,

Because I like too disable USB in the BIOS, I booted MPDPUP from internal SSD. As described on the puppy linux forum.
Download grub4dos from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/grub4dos/files/GRUB4DOS/grub4dos%200.4.4/grub4dos-0.4.4.zip/download
Open grub4dos-0.4.4.zip and extract these 2 files to C:\ grldr and menu.lst

Add this line to the end of file C:\boot.ini :
C:\grldr="show grub menu"

Download the puppy ISO you want (for example wary 5.2.2)
Create a new folder in C: called for instance Wary-5.2.2
Extract all files from Wary 5.2.2 ISO to C:\Wary-5.2.2\

Modify file C:\menu.lst to this :

default 0
color cyan/blue white/blue
timeout 5

title Wary version 5.2.2
kernel (hd0,0)/Wary-5.2.2/vmlinuz
initrd (hd0,0)/Wary-5.2.2/initrd.gz

Reboot, you will have the choice between XP and grub menu.

When I boot Puppy Precise 5.3.95. + HQplayer from internal SSD, this works fine.
But when I boot MPDPUP from internal SSD, than everything looks fine on first sight, but I can not connect through LAN with a client too the MPD-server. I don't know why that is.
But …. when I boot MPDPUP from USB-stick, and run it from USB-stick, everything works well on my cMP-hardware.
Running from USB stick I can connect too too the MPD server on the cMP hardware with the Music Player Deamon Client running on my Windows 7 desktop through LAN and play music from my NAS.
(chain: MPD on cMP hardware -> ESI Juli@ -> Van den Hull Optocoupler MKII -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Vovox Sonorus Direct S -> Klein & Hummel O300 active speakers)
So tonight I finally enjoyed running on cMP hardware.
Downside: I had too enable USB in the BIOS.
I normaly don't have USB enabled when running cMP + XP/cPlay

* First impressions on sound quality.
Music played: Phillip Glass: Acknaten. Haydn: Stabat Matter. Määk’Spirit: live jazz café recorded in Antwerp. Luis Agudo: The latin jazz side. Erik Satie: Gnossiennes, Gymnopedies. These are no special ‘audiophile’ recordings. I just happen too know them very wel. I played them very often through the years.

The Linux sonic fingerprint is still there: Much more details (than cMP + cPlay), open mids and wide sound stage.
The blurred, less focussed lows and highs are (almost) gone. Lows and highs do not sound ‘shut in’ and ‘dampened’ any longer.
But although easy on the ear, the sound quality is somewhat polisched, unnatural, pimped.
It sounds ‘processed’
If it where a photograph, I would say: “that picture is photo shopped”. It’s looks nice but there is something artificial about it.

If this somewhat artificial sound character can be removed (!) with some Linux tweaking than I think the sound quality coming from mpdpup on cMP hartdware can be much better than cMP +cPlay.

* Some side notes
cMP + MPDPUP reacts more sensitive too filtering noise on the P4 and P24 than cMP + XP/cPlay does. Same for: lowering processor speed and lowering DRAM speed. This also has a more audible effect than on cMP + XP/cPlay.

* Appeal too other inmates with cMP hardware
Please do try running MPDPUP from USB-stick on your cMP hardware.
And report your impressions on sound quality here.
I think the sound quality coming from linux has great potential.

Installing and running MPDPUP on cMP hardware is easy.
No Linux knowlegde is needed when run from USB stick.
There only one pitfall: You can’t use USB mouse and USB keyboard during install.
Installation only works through PS/2 mouse and PS/2 keyboard.
On my MoBo I only have one (1) PS/2 connector.
So I had too complete the setup with use of only a PS/2 keyboard.
I will post a short tutorial in this thread on how too do it.

Walter: again many thankx for help and support.
I know want too concentrate on the ‘tweaking’ and settings you and douwe recommeded.
Let’s see if I a can get these implemented also and get rid of this ‘artificial photo shop layer’.

Mark

Ps. I will post too Idolse on the puppy forum If he knows why an install on an internal harddisk doesn’t work.

 

RE: When booting from USB stick everything works fine !, posted on October 3, 2012 at 19:58:12
wlowes
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: Toronto
Joined: April 18, 2009
 Mark
I finally got to sit down and listen to some music before calling it a day. I thought it might help you get started navigating the files.
After mpdpup boots you can log in from another pc on the network with Putty.
login in to root with the password you supplied on installation.
to see the files in the current directory enter
ls
then enter
cd /etc
ls

you will see a long list of files in the /etc directory. among them is the config file for mpd. it is called mpd.conf
to simply scroll through it enter
less mpd.conf
look around. everything starting with # is commented out. most of the config files in linux have tons of documentation in the form of commands you could use by simply removing the #. At the very end you should see
audio_output { ...
this describes your sound device. It tells alsa what to use to play it. this is the key spot for making the tweaks I reference such as period_time etc.

BTW, to get out of less and back to the command prompt type q for quit.
When you are ready to make the changes to the audio_output instead of scrolling around with less, use the editor nano to edit the file.
nano /etc/mpd.conf or if you are in the directory,
just
nano mpd.conf
Normally in linux if you make changes to a config file it is done and stays that way. With mpdpup, the configuration wizzard will overwrite this file if you reinstall and rerun the wizard. So you may have to repeat these changes. Also the commands I suggested to try nrpacks will not survive across a reboot. if you like it and want to keep it you'll need to update another config file. These notes are all in mpdpup thread.

Oh, and one more thing. While you are logged in as root, you are a super user. the good thing is you can do anything. The bad thing is you can do anything. You can instantly destroy the operating system by deleting files. There is no protection for a super user. With mpdpup if you mess up just pop a fresh copy of the OS in and start over. takes 5 mins.
Good luck and have fun.
Walter

 

Whow, these settings do have impact!, posted on October 4, 2012 at 03:31:22
hfavandepas
 Hi Walter,

Whow, these settings do have impact !

Since I can simply reconnect the VGA-cable too my TV, editing the mpd.conf file is easy with help of the onboard leafpad text editor.
By now I’m already used too work ‘PS/2 keyboard only’.
- I type ‘startx’ at the prompt
- Pressing F12 or ALT+F1 brings up a start menu very similar too windows.
- I choose Leafpad (looks like some kind of wordpad)
- now I’m ready too simply brows too the mpd.conf file and edit it.

Sound Quality after changing buffer_size only
I restarted with these setting:
audio_buffer_size "51200"
buffer_before_play "10%"

I immediately recognized the better highs.
The highs are okay now !
Highs no longer sound ragged, frayed, tattered.
And also the bass now sounds better focussed.

Adding extra entry’s too the ESIJuli@ ALSA section
The ESIJuli@ ALSA section in my mpd.conf does not have the same entrys as your WaveIO ALSA section has. My standard ESIJuli@ ALSA section looks like this:

audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ESIJuLi@" (the name I gave it when running the setup wizard)
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
}

However your WavIO ALSA looks like this:
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "WaveIO"
period_time "8192"
fragment_size "4096"
device "hw:1,0"
buffer_time "131072"
mixer_type "none"
mixer_device "disabled"
auto_resample "no"
auto_format "no"
}

Just to be sure the mixer device is not used and there will be no re-sampling or auto-format changing
I added to my mpd.conf file:
auto_resample "no"
auto_format "no"

Since the ESIjuli@ is a PCI device and not a USB device I don’t know if period_time "8192" and fragment_size "4096" apply too an PCI device. I think this is only for a USB device .
So I did not ad these.
I wonder if the ‘buffer_time’ entry also applies too a PCI device.
I did not yet ad this too the ESIJuli@ ALSA section section.
I re-booted with this the ESIJuli@ ALSA section looking like this:
audio_output {
type "alsa"
name "ESIJuLi@"
device "hw:1,0"
mixer_type "none"
mixer_device "disabled"
auto_resample "no"
auto_format "no"
}

Sound Quality after adding extra entry’s too the ESIJuli@ ALSA section
May be the ‘placebo-bug’ bit me, but I think it gave another little SQ improvement.

MPD-pup Sound Quality now reminds me of the sound coming from Apogee converters.
After these tweaks there is still that sonic fingerprint.
But musical details and the overall ‘musical texture’ is MUCH (!!) better compared too XP+cMP/cPlay.
The sound quality now coming from this tweaked MPD-pup best reminds me of the sound quality that used to come from Apogee converters. So really good (!) but always recognizable as being ‘Apogee-sound’.

I think it’s also a matter of taste
May be I’m still used too ‘Windows-sound’
I realize being used too a sound-style is relative.

Some thoughts about tweaking (puppy) Linux
Compared too an XP+cMP+cPlay-setup, a MPDpup/linux-setup only needs a fraction of tweaking too get a very nice sound quality from.
In a XP+cMP+cPlay-setup just about every thing needs too be tweaked. Kernels settings are tweaked, USB timing is tweaked, Watchdog, Error control, ect. ect. There is an endless list of tweaks. Steppe tweaked about everything he could lay his hands on. But with illustrious results!!
I wonder if Linux needs tweaking in these area’s too and what extra sound quality this could bring too an already very good sound quality coming from MPDpup. May there is a potential of passing a tweaked XP+cMP+cPlay-setup by a mile. Who knows?

I really hope more inmates will follow and start some experiments with MPDpup from USB stick.
It is non-destructive too their XP-cMP-Cplay-setup and the MPDpup setup wizard makes it easy.

Mark

N.B. The latest Apogee Symphony I/O does not have that typical ‘Apogee sound character’ any more.
I now really love there Symphony I/O converter. Too my ears it sounds better than the Prism Orpheus and it is the best sounding converter between 3000 – 4000 euro’s anno 2012.

 

RE: Whow, these settings do have impact!, posted on October 11, 2012 at 08:14:34
audiofanatic
 On which hardware are you running this setup? Does it play cue-files properly?

 

on mpdpup on cMP hardware and cue sheets, posted on October 11, 2012 at 12:54:34
hfavandepas
 Hi Audiofanatic,

ON HARDWARE:
I use the recommended cMP hardware:
- Gigabyte MoBo,
- ESI Juli@ digital part only with optical S/Pdif out
- small 8 Gb SSD for XP operation system only
- P24, P4, ESI Juli@ digital part and SSD separately ‘clean’ powered.

Setup (using a buildinn wizard) and using Linux MPDpup on cMP hardware is easy and trouble free because the developer himself used the ESI julia card during development of Linux MPDPUP. Also the wizard is easy too understand.

MPDPUP is designed too be used in a client-server setup. With the client controling the MPDPUP server and handling the music files.
However you can start the graphical interface on MPDPUP by typing ‘startx’ at the prompt. Using a mouse you than can start the simple build inn music player. On simplicity, it has similarities with cPlay. It uses a very minimalistic DOS-style interface.

MPDPUP can run from USB-stick. But I do not like too use USB because I can clearly hear the negative effect it has on audio quality when USB is envoked and is used in my XP+cMP+cPlay setup.

Booting PUPPYLINUX distro’s through LAN (XPE Booting) turns out too be surprisingly easy. So in future I plan too boot MPDPUP through LAN. Which will allow too use MPDPUP with USB disabled and also with no SSD/HDD inside and with SATA disabled.
The only thing I haven’t figured out yet is how to store my MPDPUP configuration file. When I poweroff MPDPUP configuration settings are lost as they no longer be stored on local USB or local disk. I have too find out if there is way too store the configuration-file back through LAN onto the boot-server where MPDPUP XPE booted from. This way the configuration-file can be re-used on the next XPE Boot through LAN.

So I do use wired LAN on my cMP-setup. Contrary too claims that this will negatively impact audio quality, I can not hear any change in sound quality when I use wired LAN. Therefore, I decided too put my music on a NAS and only keep a small SSD for the operating system. But XPE Booting MPDPUP through LAN should open up possibilities too also disable USB and SATA controlers.


ON CUE-SHEETS:
I have cue-sheets of all my music, because I use(d) cMP + cPlay.
But I don’t use cue-sheets in this MDPUP client-server setup. Trying to use cue sheets might even be not relevant in such a setup. Although I’m not sure.
The MPDPUP setup is a client-server setup with MPDPUP being the server and a client running on another network connected computer (or tablet or smartphone). This MPD-client is used to manage and control the network connected MPDPUP music server and also too manage and control the stored music-files. These files can be on a NAS and/or on a disk attached too the MPDPUP server computer itself.
There are many clients too choose from. I more or less randomly chose the first client I came across when googleing for an MPD client.
I chose the Gnome Music Player Client for windows version 11.8.16
This is a client with all bells, thrills and wissels you can think off so I didn’t even bother too check if it can handle cue sheets. A client using all these bells, thrills and wissels does not impact the sound quality of music playback on the MPDPUP-server in any way because this client runs on another computer.
So I don’t know if cue-sheets can be used, but you probably will not feel the need using them.

I again typed a long post hoping it will inspired other inmates too experiment with MPDPUP as I was pleasantly surprised with the sound quality coming from MPDPUP especialy after tuning tips from Wlowes.

 

RE: When booting from USB stick everything works fine !, posted on October 3, 2012 at 16:28:46
wlowes
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: Toronto
Joined: April 18, 2009
 Great update, thanks. Others have posted that they were not convinced about the sound in stock form. Then they put in my buffer recommendations and were hooked. Look forward to your impression. When you get there it can be spooky real and very engaging.

Time to find mpd.conf!

Here is something to try. You can easily try the nrpacks mod. From the command line either cut and paste the following in or type it exactly (case is critical) one line at a time. Basically you will kill mpd, then insert a new copy of the driver, then restart mpd. here it is..

/etc/init.d/20.mpd stop
modprobe -r snd-usb-audio
modprobe snd-usb-audio nrpacks=20
/etc/init.d/20.mpd start

After starting the mpd deamon you can play music again only with an updated option to the driver.

 

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